Datsyuk or Fedorov?

[wings4thecup06 504]

Fedorov. HOF for Feds, yes. Datsyuk, if he returns to 90+ points per year yes. He needs a couple MVP type years to lock him in.

I think the better comparison is Datsyuk and Larionov since both are pass first type guys although Dats Dekes are top tier of all time.

I get what you're saying, but why should Pavel need another 1 or 2 90+ point seasons? Why can't a guy who is arguably and has arguably been the best two way forward in the league for most of the last decade need massive point totals? (Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Datsyuk returned to his 90 points pace)

[Barrie 900]

3 no, I don't think he puts up good enough numbers but if they look at his defense then I'd say yes but I thought HOF is mostly about numbers.

This isn't a knock on Pavs, but the Hockey Hall of Fame is the easiest HOF to get into, Dats will get in. He'll retire with 2 Cups (at least) and over 300 career goals.

I'll take Fedorov over Datsyuk. Feds won the Hart, 3 Cups, and had 30 or more goals in a season 10 times. Fedorov career's better then Datsyuk, Datsyuk is in, so no question Fedorov.

[gcom007 1,465]

1) Federov and Datsyuk are both some of the greatest talents to play the game. Objectively speaking, I think you have to give Federov the edge when it comes to sheer ability. The guy could take over a game like very few ever have been able to when he wanted to, but therein lies the problem. The guy had motivation issues. What's unfortunate about Federov is that as great as he was, he could've and should've been better. Datsyuk will always get a bit more grace from Wings fans as he's stuck with the team, but I think people are starting to warm up to Feds again. We were insanely lucky to have these two guys as part of the Wings organization and I think Federov still deeply values his ties to Detroit and the Red Wings.

2) Absolutely he will.

3) Absolutely he will.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

This isn't a knock on Pavs, but the Hockey Hall of Fame is the easiest HOF to get into, Dats will get in. He'll retire with 2 Cups (at least) and over 300 career goals.

I'll take Fedorov over Datsyuk. Feds won the Hart, 3 Cups, and had 30 or more goals in a season 10 times. Fedorov career's better then Datsyuk, Datsyuk is in, so no question Fedorov.

Dats also has 532 assists already. He could easily be over 600-650 when he retires and is just shy of Beijing a ppg player his entire career (804 points in 824 games) that's good enough for me, without even taking into consideration his two way play. That just puts him over the top.

[Number19 159]

Can I have Fedorov with Datsyuk's attitude and work ethic?

[gcom007 1,465]

Can I have Fedorov with Datsyuk's attitude and work ethic?

That hybrid might've exceeded the Great One...

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

Datsyuk much more complete player to me. Although I can not imagine the number Federov would have put up now.

[Guest DeGraa55]

Datsyuk much more complete player to me. Although I can not imagine the number Federov would have put up now.

Datsyuk who doesn't score many goals is more complete? I personally don't think so but to each their own...

[number9 3,297]

Datsyuk who doesn't score many goals is more complete? I personally don't think so but to each their own...

Datsyuk never had to play on a defensive pairing because he wasn't playing defense at forward

[kliq 3,755]

Datsyuk never had to play on a defensive pairing because he wasn't playing defense at forward

Its so weird, I think Fedorov is the only player ever to have such a rep for being lazy, and have coaches go to those lengths to get him going, yet has 2 selke's on his resume.

[Guest DeGraa55]

Its so weird, I think Fedorov is the only player ever to have such a rep for being lazy, and have coaches go to those lengths to get him going, yet has 2 selke's on his resume.

And actually showed up to play and perform well.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Datsyuk who doesn't score many goals is more complete? I personally don't think so but to each their own...

Scoring tons of goals doesn't mean you can't be a complete player. Look at Bergeron for example. I'd say Pavel is a complete player. More complete than Fedorov? That's hard to say because when Sergei was in his prime (early 90's), tons of goals were still going in across the league.

[Nev 1,085]

Can I have Fedorov with Datsyuk's attitude and work ethic?

We saw flashes of it (like those four 20+ point playoffs) but never consistently enough.

Both HOFers. Better player? I flip-flop between the two,

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Both of them should be in the Hall. Fedorov started his career earlier and had better seasons, so it's hard to argue Datsyuk is the better player right now. Fedorov really fell off after leaving Detroit though, so if Datsyuk keeps up a better pace through the end of his career an argument might be made then.

Datsyuk who doesn't score many goals is more complete? I personally don't think so but to each their own... Datsyuk never had to play on a defensive pairing because he wasn't playing defense at forward

Bowman did that to f with him not because he wasn't playing defense.

[toby91_ca 620]

Euro_Twins....if you are purely looking at stats, I don't think Datsyuk has a chance at the Hall at all at this point. 804 points in 824 is good enough? Don't think so. Lindros has 865 points in 760 games and has a Hart and Pearson...he's not in.

My personal starting discussion point used to be 1,000 points AND over 1 ppg. Anything less than that would be very difficult, but there would be exceptions (e.g. several high end trophies)

[kliq 3,755]

And actually showed up to play and perform well.

Exactly my point, so ridiculously talented on offense an defense, and when he was on and showed up, he was on! Though some nights.....nothing.

Euro_Twins....if you are purely looking at stats, I don't think Datsyuk has a chance at the Hall at all at this point. 804 points in 824 is good enough? Don't think so. Lindros has 865 points in 760 games and has a Hart and Pearson...he's not in.

My personal starting discussion point used to be 1,000 points AND over 1 ppg. Anything less than that would be very difficult, but there would be exceptions (e.g. several high end trophies)

Not fair to compare points per game, different era's. 90's were a different time, I can only imagine the amount of assists Datsyuk would have back then. Wasn't it only like '93 when Mogilny and Selanne scored like 76 goals.

[number9 3,297]

Exactly my point, so ridiculously talented on offense an defense, and when he was on and showed up, he was on! Though some nights.....nothing.

Not fair to compare points per game, different era's. 90's were a different time, I can only imagine the amount of assists Datsyuk would have back then. Wasn't it only like '93 when Mogilny and Selanne scored like 76 goals.

And our 90s team was like... out of this world. Datsyuk would have had the best linemates available like Feds did.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Euro_Twins....if you are purely looking at stats, I don't think Datsyuk has a chance at the Hall at all at this point. 804 points in 824 is good enough? Don't think so. Lindros has 865 points in 760 games and has a Hart and Pearson...he's not in.

My personal starting discussion point used to be 1,000 points AND over 1 ppg. Anything less than that would be very difficult, but there would be exceptions (e.g. several high end trophies)

I agree with you about your criteria, somewhat. The thing with Lindros is that he was never on the ice long enough to show how truly good he was. If he hadn't got destroyed by Stevens, and a few others multiple times he'd no doubt be in the hall by now.

Datsyuk will probably end up with around 1,000 points if he stays healthy. Combine that with his defensive attributes and I think a case could be made for him making the hall. All you have to do is swing by the Pavel Datsyuk show thread on this forum and you've got a great start!

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Here's a good, long thread from HFboards back in 2012, talking about Datsyuk's HOF status.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1121269

I think he gets in. If 1,000 points is the criteria, there won't be many guys making the HOF after Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin retire. How many 1,000 point players do you think the future generations will produce? Not much I think. Doesn't mean there won't be guys making the Hall of Fame anymore.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

Datsyuk much more complete player to me. Although I can not imagine the number Federov would have put up now.

Have people forgotten that Fedorov played defense, scored 56 goals while winning the Selke, and often played with Shawn Burr on a TKO line shadowing the opposition's top players? Fedorov was a BEAST on both ends of the ice. He was very much a complete player.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Have people forgotten that Fedorov played defense, scored 56 goals while winning the Selke, and often played with Shawn Burr on a TKO line shadowing the opposition's top players? Fedorov was a BEAST on both ends of the ice. He was very much a complete player.

After Bobby Orr and Red Kelly, Fedorov is probably the most complete player in history.

[number9 3,297]

Have people forgotten that Fedorov played defense, scored 56 goals while winning the Selke, and often played with Shawn Burr on a TKO line shadowing the opposition's top players? Fedorov was a BEAST on both ends of the ice. He was very much a complete player.

That was a different time. Sheppard had 52 goals, and Kozlov scored 34!

We'll be lucky if any of our forwards hit 30 goals this season.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Euro_Twins....if you are purely looking at stats, I don't think Datsyuk has a chance at the Hall at all at this point. 804 points in 824 is good enough? Don't think so. Lindros has 865 points in 760 games and has a Hart and Pearson...he's not in.

My personal starting discussion point used to be 1,000 points AND over 1 ppg. Anything less than that would be very difficult, but there would be exceptions (e.g. several high end trophies)

As I said a few posts higher, how many players in the future will hit 1,000 points? Not even close to what it was in the past.

That makes it sound like other than Crosby or Ovechkin, nobody will make the HOF in 10 or 15 years. The criteria will have to change with the times. Unless they do the ceremony every year with only one or two players getting inducted with each class.

This is also the reason I think guys like Andreychuk and Cicarrelli will eventually get in, because there won't be as many huge numbers guys to choose from that aren't already in. When guys like Andreychuk get picked, then the Datsyuks of the world will start getting selected.

I don't think Pavel will be a first ballot selection, but I do think he'll get in eventually. Some guys get in when they're like 60.

Edited August 24, 2014 by GMRwings1983

[number9 3,297]

So say, in the future, they need to select 5 HOFers, and it comes to this generation. The decade after the first lockout. Who would be the top forwards of this era?

Crosby

Ovechkin

Datsyuk

Stamkos

Malkin

St. Louis

Toews

Besides Ovechkin and Crosby, those other four can be argued either way as to is better I think.

Those players were just off the top of my head, so please add anyone I forgot.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

So say, in the future, they need to select 5 HOFers, and it comes to this generation. The decade after the first lockout. Who would be the top forwards of this era?

Crosby

Ovechkin

Datsyuk

Stamkos

Malkin

St. Louis

Toews

Besides Ovechkin and Crosby, those other four can be argued either way as to is better I think.

Those players were just off the top of my head, so please add anyone I forgot.

Malkin is definitely going to be rated higher. A lot more important trophies and postseason All Star teams than Datsyuk. In 2009, he had arguably the greatest playoff any forward not named Gretzky or Lemieux has ever had.

Stamkos and Toews at their current rate will be rated ahead of Datsyuk. Once again, more individual offensive trophies (sorry Selke) and postseason All Star teams.

St. Louis has a Hart trophy, and has been a tremendous player ever since he left Calgary. He and Datsyuk could be rated similarly when it's all said and done with.