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Fedorov and Yzerman vs. Datsyuk and Zetterberg


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#21 Uncle Danny

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

Many people are pointing out differences between eras, line mates, etc, all of which is interesting for discussion.  The question, though, is which pair would you take.  For me that's #19 and #91 all day every day.  No knock on the "kids," but I'd be hard pressed to find many duos I'd take above them on any roster, let alone the Wings.

 

(#66 and #68 come to mind... #99 and, well, anyone also)


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#22 hooon

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

It might be closer if it was Feds + Dats vs. Yzerman + Z.

 

Feds and Yzerman were two of the greatest all time (during their peak/prime years), and while Z and D were among the best of their generation, they still aren't quite in the realm of the former two.


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#23 kliq

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?

 

I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.



#24 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:21 PM

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?

 

I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.

 

 As great as Fedorov was as a player the way he left burned that scenario.

 

Pasha and Z may have a borderline chance at best, because the bar is unbelievable high in Detroit. I think both will be honored in some way or form - maybe a ring of honor like Calgary has it - but numbers retired ? I don't think so

 

<< neither of the three


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#25 number9

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:35 PM

13 and 40 in the rafters

#26 DeGraa55

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:00 PM

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?
 
I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.


None. Z and dat are not in the same catagory of Howe lids and yzerman.

#27 kliq

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:48 PM

None. Z and dat are not in the same catagory of Howe lids and yzerman.

 

I don't disagree that D & Z are not in that category, but I dont think to have your jersey retired you have to be at the level of Howe, Yzerman, or Lidstrom. Your talking about 3 guys that are 3 of the best players of all time.

 

Are they at the level, or close the level of Abel, Lindsay, or Delvecchio? This is the better question.



#28 wings4thecup06

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:21 PM

 

I don't disagree that D & Z are not in that category, but I dont think to have your jersey retired you have to be at the level of Howe, Yzerman, or Lidstrom. Your talking about 3 guys that are 3 of the best players of all time.

 

Are they at the level, or close the level of Abel, Lindsay, or Delvecchio? This is the better question.

 

Personally, I reckon part of it will depend on the next 3 years. If the Wings can get another cup with Dats and Z leading the way, then it'll definitely boost their chances no doubt. 


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#29 DeGraa55

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:37 PM

I honestly believe it be agile before another is retired. I dot think anyone on the wings or griffins for that matter will have their jerseys retired. But that's just my opinion.

#30 kliq

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:14 PM

 

Personally, I reckon part of it will depend on the next 3 years. If the Wings can get another cup with Dats and Z leading the way, then it'll definitely boost their chances no doubt. 

 

That is a very good point. Their careers aren't over yet, the more they accomplish, the higher the chance.



#31 GMRwings1983

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:09 PM

If Red Kelly's jersey isn't up there, I don't know why Datsyuk's or Zetterberg's would be.  Yeah, Kelly left on bad terms, but he's ranked higher all time among all time Red Wings greats.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 27 August 2014 - 09:10 PM.

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#32 kliq

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:21 PM

I think one level of criteria that is very important when it comes to this, is if the player in question can lead their team to a cup. They did it in '08 and almost '09, but one could argue that the Wings were led by #5, not D & Z (though with Z winning the Conn Smythe that is a hard sell). If they can win another cup, then I think its a lock. If they don't, my guess is still yes due to them being the faces/best players of a certain era.



#33 RusDRW

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 04:22 AM

I don't get it really when people are saying that Red Wings should not retire 13 and 40. Zetterberg and Datsyuk defined at least a decade for the Red Wings (2004-2014 and counting most likely till 2017-2018). During this timespan they were considered as one of the best if not the best for their positions, they got us 1 cup and two appearances and most likely spend their whole careers as Red Wings. What else you could ask for?

 

If this is not enough, then I think Red Wings should reconsider their standard for retiring.


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#34 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 11:16 AM

I don't get it really when people are saying that Red Wings should not retire 13 and 40. Zetterberg and Datsyuk defined at least a decade for the Red Wings (2004-2014 and counting most likely till 2017-2018). During this timespan they were considered as one of the best if not the best for their positions, they got us 1 cup and two appearances and most likely spend their whole careers as Red Wings. What else you could ask for?

 

If this is not enough, then I think Red Wings should reconsider their standard for retiring.

 

They will be honored in some way - I'm very sure of that - but the bar for the Red Wings is incredible high (some may argue too high). Nothing against both of them but all 7 retired numbers have been even more than outstanding.


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#35 kliq

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:18 PM

 

They will be honored in some way - I'm very sure of that - but the bar for the Red Wings is incredible high (some may argue too high). Nothing against both of them but all 7 retired numbers have been even more than outstanding.

 

Yzerman, Howe....sure no question. What makes Frank Mahovlich's accomplishments on the Wings so much greater? (nothing against FM)

He played on the Wings 4 seasons, with his best season being 78 points in 76 games. No awards, no cups.



#36 ogreslayer

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:46 PM

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?

 

I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.

 

Given some quotes I've seen from the front office over the years, the first question that will need to be answered is which of those 3 will make the HoF which is the first step in getting their number retired.  "But, but, but Stevie & Lids got their numbers retired before HoF induction", I hear you say.  Yeah, but there was no denying that those two would be in the HoF before they even hung up their skates.  Personal HoF opinion is Feds might not be a 1st ballot HoFer but he should be, Dats might have to wait a year or two but he'll get in, & Z has at best an outside chance if he stays healthy.  So out of those 3, Pavel has the best chance of having his jersey in the rafters in the near future with Sergei maybe getting a shot with a little forgiveness & time, like in another decade plus as nostalgia begins to outweigh the bad vibes that a large part of the fan base still have in regards to Sergei.

 

As to the question posed by the OP though, Stevie & Sergei in a no-brainer.  

 

Instead of posting this as a new thread, I'll throw out a similar question to everyone here.  The Wings are in a tough battle for a Stanley Cup.  It's game 7 and right before the game, Doc Brown pulls up in his DeLorean, tells you the fate of the world hinges on the Wings winning & offers you the opportunity to pluck one former Wing in his prime from the time stream to guarantee a victory.  Who do you pick & why?  My choice is a close one, but I would take the quiet, consistent perfection of Lidstrom over the more manic variety of Hasek.  So who you got?



#37 number9

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

I think logically one has to choose Lidstrom

#38 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:38 PM

Lidas will never forget his 13 god like seconds against the hurricanes

Edited by frankgrimes, 28 August 2014 - 08:38 PM.

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#39 number9

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 11:07 PM

While we're talking about old players I thought I'd share what I saw on reddit today that I had not previously known. Draper scored goals in the AHL and NHL BEFORE scoring a goal in the CHL. Strange and interesting.



#40 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:12 PM

Z and Dats are my 2 current favorite players, but Yzerman, Lidstrom, Probert and Fedorov were my favorite growing up.  There is no one else in the history of the NHL that I would rather have on my team than Steve Yzerman.  Guy had the compete level and heart of a lion and skills to back it up.  When he refined his 2-way game on top of all that, he became what I believe to be the best all around player the NHL has seen.  Not just pure offence or defence, Yzerman was the complete package.  Fedorov was pretty close but there's a reason Yzerman is "The Captain".


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