2014 Preseason Thread

[kipwinger 8,518]

I'm with you on the Cleary bashing, but not completely about Kindl.

He doesn't deserve whipping boy status, but my frustration with Kindl is he was supposed to be, and more importantly has the skillset to be much more than a tweener defenseman. Even then, him not living up to that potential wouldn't be as big of a deal had Holland not handed him a 4 year contract, which I don't blame Kindl for.

Either way, yes it would be nice to hope these guys succeed rather than salivate at their potential mistakes.

I completely agree. What gets me is that everyone ALREADY knows they're going to make mistakes. That's what bottom end talent does...league wide. Every single team in the league has bottoms end talent making mistakes, and yet when our guys do it there's a huge "I told you so" uproar. It's dumb. If these guys didn't make mistakes, they'd be top end talent.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'll never understand how a fan of a team can hope for a player on that team to fail... hoping that Cleary sucks, hoping he doesn't get in his 10 games isf****** ridiculous...

As a fan of the team, and a huge fan of Cleary as a person, I hope he has a career year and blows every skeptic away with his solid play. I know it's not likely to happen at this stage of his career but I'm not about to hope he fails...

I really hope that Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen line stays intact to start the season. I think they will dominate. @ Jesusberg - I know right? I wish Pulkkinen would be put in a position to succeed, on a scoring line. He's not a checker, so stop using him as one...

I don't want Cleary to fail. I personally love the guy and his work ethic. He was a great story for the Red Wings and a key contributor for years. That being said, I don't want Dan Cleary around if it's more of the same with him again and he can't contribute anything at all. He really shouldn't even be here for starters based on performance, but he is and he should have to earn his playing time just like every prospect does.

I think that's where most people sit with Cleary. Maybe there a few wanting him to fail. However, I believe the consensus is that Dan Cleary needs to show something to deserve even getting those ten games. Because right now, he offers the least out of any forward on the roster.

[kipwinger 8,518]

I don't want Cleary to fail. I personally love the guy and his work ethic. He was a great story for the Red Wings and a key contributor for years. That being said, I don't want Dan Cleary around if it's more of the same with him again and he can't contribute anything at all. He really shouldn't even be here for starters based on performance, but he is and he should have to earn his playing time just like every prospect does.

I think that's where most people sit with Cleary. Maybe there a few wanting him to fail. However, I believe the consensus is that Dan Cleary needs to show something to deserve even getting those ten games. Because right now, he offers the least out of any forward on the roster.

If it's "more of the same" with Cleary and he's still on the ice then it's not his fault. It's Babcock's.

[LeftWinger 4,948]

didn't see this anywhere, but didn't have too much time to look everywhere, according to Kahn, Sproul out with shoulder injury...super.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I think there's a difference between wanting a guy to fail, and thinking he's going to fail. Do I want Dan Cleary to have a 20-20 year and work on the PK? Absolutely, but I don't think that's going to happen. I think sometimes people get so caught up in disliking the decisions that a team makes, that they turn their focus to the player instead. I know I'm guilty of that (*cough* Quincey *cough*).

As far as the defense goes, I think Quincey is safe for now. If anyone should be worried, I think it's Kindl.

Ouellet's right on his heels, I'd say. So far he's looked completely in place on this team's blueline, and he played over 24 minutes last night. Perhaps it's just me, but I think Ouellet's is way ahead of the other three guys vying for spots right now. Sproul looked amazing on the PP, but definitely has to shore up his work in the defensive zone. Backman will need this season to transition to NA play, but once he does, he'll be very reliable. Marchenko is worrying me a bit - I hope his ankle injury doesn't prove to be an issue. He's looked a bit off so far, IMO.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

If it's "more of the same" with Cleary and he's still on the ice then it's not his fault. It's Babcock's.

For sure. I'm holding him to the best players play comment, though. Which is probably stupid because that isn't the Red Wings way usually.

[T.Low 1,011]

You forgot the most important stat.

Cleary was a -2

I tend towards bringing cookies, not coal.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I think there's a difference between wanting a guy to fail, and thinking he's going to fail. Do I want Dan Cleary to have a 20-20 year and work on the PK? Absolutely, but I don't think that's going to happen. I think sometimes people get so caught up in disliking the decisions that a team makes, that they turn their focus to the player instead. I know I'm guilty of that (*cough* Quincey *cough*).

As far as the defense goes, I think Quincey is safe for now. If anyone should be worried, I think it's Kindl.

Ouellet's right on his heels, I'd say. So far he's looked completely in place on this team's blueline, and he played over 24 minutes last night. Perhaps it's just me, but I think Ouellet's is way ahead of the other three guys vying for spots right now. Sproul looked amazing on the PP, but definitely has to shore up his work in the defensive zone. Backman will need this season to transition to NA play, but once he does, he'll be very reliable. Marchenko is worrying me a bit - I hope his ankle injury doesn't prove to be an issue. He's looked a bit off so far, IMO.

Post of the thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[T.Low 1,011]

didn't see this anywhere, but didn't have too much time to look everywhere, according to Kahn, Sproul out with shoulder injury...super.

New Avatar Silver Lake Sand Dunes?

Edit: oh, of course, just noticed your sig line. Sweet.

Edited September 26, 2014 by T.Low

[LeftWinger 4,948]

New Avatar Silver Lake Sand Dunes?

yep...moved there last year.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Kronwall isn't playing for a job?

I'm pretty sure as our number one dman he would be the absolute last person to lose a job to a prospect. Sorry but no he's not playing for a job, just like datsyuk, z, franzen, And Ericsson are not. They are getting into game shape, but I severely doubt any of our prospects could replace those guys, and please spare the franzen is lazy crap, until we get a guy who can replace his production he isn't going anywhere

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'm pretty sure as our number one dman he would be the absolute last person to lose a job to a prospect. Sorry but no he's not playing for a job, just like datsyuk, z, franzen, And Ericsson are not. They are getting into game shape, but I severely doubt any of our prospects could replace those guys, and please spare the franzen is lazy crap, until we get a guy who can replace his production he isn't going anywhere

I think you entirely misread the context of that conversation. Besides, who mentioned anything about Franzen?

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I think you entirely misread the context of that conversation. Besides, who mentioned anything about Franzen?

no one, i was mentioning the players i believed are not necessarily playing for a spot on the team because they already have earned it, but I also didn't want it to turn into a franzen hate fest. I was replying to the comment is kronwall not playing for a spot on the team, if mean sarcastically I did not pick up on that, just stating my opinion anyway.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

no one, i was mentioning the players i believed are not necessarily playing for a spot on the team because they already have earned it, but I also didn't want it to turn into a franzen hate fest. I was replying to the comment is kronwall not playing for a spot on the team, if mean sarcastically I did not pick up on that, just stating my opinion anyway.

No worries. My response about Kronwall was in regards to him being -2 in the game against Chicago, which was the same as Cleary. I was just stating that Kronwall's pre-season performances have no influence on him making the team, unlike you would presume with Cleary.

I agree Franzen is rightfully safe. I don't think even his most vocal opponents would dispute that.

[Nev 1,085]

I find Babcock's comments on the D prospects......interesting. Kindl and Lashoff best be looking over their shoulders. Interesting also that he talks about "who wants to play on the PP?"

With Alfie appearing to not come back anytime soon, and having hopefully left the Tatar experiment in the bin, that leaves our D on the PP as - Kronwall, Smith (promised PP time) and...? Dekeyser? Quincey? Ericsson? Kindl? I don't know if Sproul is ready for the NHL yet, Marchenko Babs has said he sees more as a PKer, but he is a righty....

[chances14 227]

another home preseason game tonight that is not being televised or even played on the radio. ridiculous

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

another home preseason game tonight that is not being televised or even played on the radio. ridiculous

I'll be there, I will post after the game how everyone looked

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

I find Babcock's comments on the D prospects......interesting. Kindl and Lashoff best be looking over their shoulders. Interesting also that he talks about "who wants to play on the PP?"

With Alfie appearing to not come back anytime soon, and having hopefully left the Tatar experiment in the bin, that leaves our D on the PP as - Kronwall, Smith (promised PP time) and...? Dekeyser? Quincey? Ericsson? Kindl? I don't know if Sproul is ready for the NHL yet, Marchenko Babs has said he sees more as a PKer, but he is a righty....

Probably Kindl. If he can proof that last season was an anomaly and plays like the season before he will stay there. If not then things will start get interesting.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I think that spot on the 2nd PP unit is still Kindl's to lose. I imagine they're going to give both Smith and DeKeyser looks on the other point of the PP. Ideally, both could take over if he falters.

It's also possible that, with a healthy roster, the team uses a forward on the point for each PP unit. We've got about 9 powerplay capable forwards (loose term here guys and gals) when you factor in the net presence guys. Wouldn't surprise me to see Babcock use the firepower back there if he feels it's needed.

Z-D-Abs

Kronwall-Nyquist

Mule-Weiss-Helm/Cleary/Sheahan/Jurco

Kindl-Tatar

Not saying it's ideal - just think it's possible. FWIW, I really wish Babcock would just let the defenders work the PP, and give the PK guys their role.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Jesusberg

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

@AnsarKhanMLive: Wings' Darren Helm didn't skate today due to a sore groin and is day-to-day, Ken Holland said.

I realize that sore groins are bound to happen after not skating all summer, but I can't help but at Darren Helm. Is this guy made out of fruit, really unlucky, or the subject of a hidden voodoo doll?

[LeftWinger 4,948]

regarding Helm....you guys all laughed at me when I stated last season that a trainer in the staff behind the scenes had told a guy I work with that he plays pick up hockey with(ya ya, I know how that sounds) that he is a wuss and will sit with a hang nail. We are seeing it again. This guy is made of balsa wood and he should have been traded over the summer...of course teams also probably knows he is a wuss...

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Via Khan:

Brian Lashoff won't be the odd-man out, however. His job is safe.

"Lash isn't in any trouble," coach Mike Babcock said before Saturday's preseason game against the Boston Bruins at Joe Louis Arena.

"Lash trained like crazy," Babcock said. "Lash is smart. Lash does a good job penalty killing. Lash is what he is."...

"There's a spot on the team for everybody, and everyone just assumes that when a new guy comes he's taking over for one of the guys on the fourth line (or bottom defense pairing)," Babcock said. "No. You do what you do. We're looking for guys who can move the puck. So it isn't necessarily that they (defense prospects) are slotting in this role."

Babcock said the same applies to Jakub Kindl, meaning don't expect him to be replaced by a young defenseman.

"We're in the market for a top-four D," Babcock said. "We're dying to give it to somebody. There's lots of minutes for you."

...what?

Edited September 27, 2014 by Jesusberg

[GoWings1905 2,694]

That doesn't make any sense. Lashoff is a plug and Kindl was terrible last season. If one of the four prospects is better, why wouldn't you at least start them on the third pairing? Honestly, Ouellet already looks like he would be an upgrade from either Kindl or Lashoff.

Who are any of the prospects going to knock out of the top-four so early in their careers? You already have Kronwall, E, DeKeyser and possibly Smith plus the four million dollar man too. Let them take Kindl or Lashoff's job and grow into larger roles for the future.

The defense is bad. Why would you want to try the same group as last season? The only potential for development is going to come from Smith. I don't expect all four to make the team now, but one of them should get a shot.

Edited September 27, 2014 by GoWings1905

[LeftWinger 4,948]

Mike Babcock - "Even though Kindl is the worst player in the NHL, and we couldn't even trade him for a used tampon, he is going to get his minutes, there is no prospect going to come in and take his job. He's not just a plug..."

ok, so I paraphrased...

[VM1138 1,921]

@AnsarKhanMLive: Wings' Darren Helm didn't skate today due to a sore groin and is day-to-day, Ken Holland said.

I realize that sore groins are bound to happen after not skating all summer, but I can't help but at Darren Helm. Is this guy made out of fruit, really unlucky, or the subject of a hidden voodoo doll?

I realize such injuries tend to happen after a long summer off, but the troubling sign is that this always happens to Helm. The fact that things like this happen so frequently to just one player makes one wonder about their durability. I love what Helm brings, but if he's going to be injured all year again it might be time to start doing a cost/benefit analysis on keeping him.