Injured Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

So it begins. Mantha... Datsyuk... I just hope after surgery Z is ready to roll for a full season.

[RusDRW 155]

you can have all the enforcers you want, the fact of the matter is they do not deter players taking runs at your star players anymore.

Completely, no, there are always who are dumb enough, but to a great extent, yes.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

And the stars on those teams still get run.

Yes, and this is because the league will protect the dirty players. Scrap the instigator rule and leave the policing to the players. If a guy is willing to face the music after running a star then so be it, I agree there's no stopping them, but at least dont protect these clowns. Let there be another Lemieux beatdown. I bet more than a few players would think twice and even change their game. Frankly, it cannot get worse than the current state.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

you can have all the enforcers you want, the fact of the matter is they do not deter players taking runs at your star players anymore.

Because many of them know they can hide behind the refs. And I dont necessarily mean the instigating rule -I mean literally hide behind the refs, and the NHL will let them. For what reason? To clean up its act...??

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

We have 4 players over 31 (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Cleary, Franzen)

Kronwall Weiss

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Cooke cheap shots someone, other team sends goon out, Cooke's team sends goon out, goons fight. How does that prevent cheap shots?

Edited September 25, 2014 by DickieDunn

[toby91_ca 620]

This probably isn't the best example of a hit to use to complain about not having someone to back up teammates and deter hits against the star players. This was a normal play that you see several times a game. I think part of the probably was Dats stretching out his arm and reaching around to try and get the puck, leaving the shoulder at the wrong angle to take impact.

In terms of "payback" for clean hits on star players....I really don't have much of a problem with it to be honest...to a point of course. Hitting is part of the game, but you still want your star players to avoid as many hits as you can and if you have the other team think twice before even laying a clean hit....then that's good. If you look back at the 80s, Gretzky had to deal with a lot of hooks and holds, but not hits. He barely got touched.

[Spongewingredpants 75]

i just saw a 24 hour old interview of Dats. "I am fine, no problem, i should be out no more than a week. tomorrow i have an MRI, we will see"

yup, great

[kliq 3,755]

Kronwall Weiss

Weiss is 31, I said over 31. Kronwall......you're right, I just forgot him..

Point is, the poster was criticizing us as an aging team. Yes, most fans would get rid of Franzen and Cleary if given the chance, but I don't think any would get rid of Datsyuk, Kronwall, or Zetterberg. Two players fans don't want, does not make a team "an aging team, nobody wants to play on"

Edited September 25, 2014 by kliq

[kipwinger 8,524]

Yes, and this is because the league will protect the dirty players. Scrap the instigator rule and leave the policing to the players. If a guy is willing to face the music after running a star then so be it, I agree there's no stopping them, but at least dont protect these clowns. Let there be another Lemieux beatdown. I bet more than a few players would think twice and even change their game. Frankly, it cannot get worse than the current state.

There are "Lemieux" beatdowns all the time. Not a year goes by that there isn't some big line brawl. Look up line brawl on youtube and you'll find a TON of them. And here's the funny part, they usually take place between the same teams. Buffalo, Boston, Philly, Toronto. Nobody is using them to keep other teams honest. They're doing it because they're the types of teams built to do it. Last year Toronto and Buffalo had a line brawl because John Scott tried to fight Kessel. And Buffalo acquired John Scott because the year before that Lucic ran over top of Ryan Miller. This crap just perpetuates itself.

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

Weiss is 31, I said over 31. Kronwall......your right, I just forgot him..

Point is, the poster was criticizing us as an aging team. Yes, most fans would get rid of Franzen and Cleary if given the chance, but I don't think any would get rid of Datsyuk, Kronwall, or Zetterberg. Two players fans don't want, does not make a team "an aging team, nobody wants to play on"

I wasn't disagreeing with the point just correcting it. And technically Weiss would be over 31 cause he already turned 31, but that's just nitpicking by me. Either way we're a fairly young team, pretty much coming into its prime.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I wasn't disagreeing with the point just correcting it. And technically Weiss would be over 31 cause he already turned 31, but that's just nitpicking by me. Either way we're a fairly young team, pretty much coming into its prime.

I agree that we're a young team, and I by no means bemoan the fact that we're "old". But, I think it's at least worth noting that while only a handful of guys are over 31, they're all our best players (with the exception of Cleary). D, Z, Fran, Knonwall, Weiss all have VERY important spots on this team. So I think the point could be made that while we're not old overall...the most important parts of our team are getting up there.

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

I agree that we're a young team, and I by no means bemoan the fact that we're "old". But, I think it's at least worth noting that while only a handful of guys are over 31, they're all our best players (with the exception of Cleary). D, Z, Fran, Knonwall, Weiss all have VERY important spots on this team. So I think the point could be made that while we're not old overall...the most important parts of our team are getting up there.

Which is why guys like Tatar, goose, Mantha(hopefully after he's healed), Smith , and jurco are on the team, to learn from our aging stars and take the reigns one day. We have a promising future even with the guys in the ahl

[Mckinley25 677]

Let's be honest, the only reason people defend fighting is because they want to watch fights. There's no statistics on cheap shots that I'm aware of, but I suspect the frequency hasn't changed because of the instigator rule or the refs or anything like that. In fact, and this is just based on my own experience of watching hockey from the eighties on, I believe cheap shot have drastically declined.

If injuries are up, particularly ones like Datsyuk suffered, it's likely because the game is so much faster and the players so much stronger. The game is changing, because the players are getting better.

Fighting in my opinion is an just a useless distraction from the game that should be abandoned with other sport antiquities like segregated baseball teams.

[rrasco 1,312]

I don't think it was a dirty hit, but it would make me feel better if we had someone stand up for our guys. Like how Hoggan did when Farnham ran Ouellet. It's camaraderie when you know people have your back. It might not prevent injuries or people running our guys, but it makes me feel better. I don't even like watching the fights most of the time, I'm nervous as hell for the guys. Even the other guy, most of the time.

It does infuriate the hell out of me when stuff like this happens and our guys are just standing around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDYBpZbGvv4

Edited September 25, 2014 by rrasco

[SimonSin 192]

Don't mean to be a Debbie downer here but this injury will probably bother him all season. I had a cousin that had a separated shoulder from playing football and it took a while again for him to feel 100%. Now obviously the Red Wings have top notch doctors and better resources but it probably won't make that much of a difference. I don't see Datsyuk being out only 4 weeks. He'll probably be out longer and will probably be bothered by it the whole season. Face it, he's getting old. Injuries have plagued players that are younger than Datsyuk. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Datsyuk only plays half a season.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

If McGrattan played for our team, Scuderi would have hit someone like Miller or Cleary instead.

At least I would, in his position.

[kipwinger 8,524]

If McGrattan played for our team, Scuderi would have hit someone like Miller or Cleary instead.

At least I would, in his position.

And if Pittsburgh had Orr, McGrattan and his soccer hair would run away or get his nose broke. So what?

[Mckinley25 677]

If McGrattan played for our team, Scuderi would have hit someone like Miller or Cleary instead.

At least I would, in his position.

I would hit the player carrying the puck.

[chances14 227]

Because many of them know they can hide behind the refs. And I dont necessarily mean the instigating rule -I mean literally hide behind the refs, and the NHL will let them. For what reason? To clean up its act...??

agreed.

If McGrattan played for our team, Scuderi would have hit someone like Miller or Cleary instead.

At least I would, in his position.

lol. and you know this how? there have been so many instances of players taking runs at star players on pertty much every team that this notion is laughable.

enforcers do not deter players from taking cheapshots anymore thanks in large part to how the nhl has changed the rules

Remember in 2008, when lapeirre took a run at lidstrom and injured him. downey was in the lineup but that didnt stop him from going after lidstrom

or how about kronwall this past season when mcleod boarded him right next to tootoo.

Yes, and this is because the league will protect the dirty players. Scrap the instigator rule and leave the policing to the players. If a guy is willing to face the music after running a star then so be it, I agree there's no stopping them, but at least dont protect these clowns. Let there be another Lemieux beatdown. I bet more than a few players would think twice and even change their game. Frankly, it cannot get worse than the current state.

it's hilarious to think by today's standards that mccarty only got a 5 min major for fighting after that beatdown. If he did that today, he would probably be gone for the year

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Serious question. I don't read other hockey boards, so I don't know the answer to this question.

Do other forums have as many posters who don't believe fighting and enforcers have a place in the game? It seems like we have many, and I wonder how much of that has to do with Kenny Holland and the Wings philosophy of finishing last in fighting majors every year for the last 10+ years?

Seems like the attitude of the team and management has rubbed off to the fanbase.

With that said, I know many Wings fans who can't stand that philosophy and root for the team in spite of it.

[wings87 1,290]

Truth be told - having a 'soft spot' for the Maple Leafs - I frequent a Leafs fan site... http://www.leafsforever.ca/

They're a fun bunch, and are brutally honest about their team - however I sense they're indifferent to the roles of an enforcer, and fighting in general since having a team full of 'truculence', and more recently a team comprised of 'skill' hasn't taken them very far.

They usually chat about how messed up MLSE is, and how they'll always find a way to 'screw the pooch'.

Having not spent any time on Leafs fan sites, I don't have an answer to this- but maybe you do. Would you consider the Leafs fan base brutally honest or overly pessimistic?

[kipwinger 8,524]

Serious question. I don't read other hockey boards, so I don't know the answer to this question.

Do other forums have as many posters who don't believe fighting and enforcers have a place in the game? It seems like we have many, and I wonder how much of that has to do with Kenny Holland and the Wings philosophy of finishing last in fighting majors every year for the last 10+ years?

Seems like the attitude of the team and management has rubbed off to the fanbase.

With that said, I know many Wings fans who can't stand that philosophy and root for the team in spite of it.

I don't know about other teams, but I suspect that your characterization of Wings fans' attitudes is right...yet incomplete. People around here buy into Kenny's philosophy partially because they don't have an alternative, and partially because it's been SUPER successful during his tenure. If he espoused a "no fighting" philosophy and we missed the playoffs every year I imagine fans wouldn't be so quick to go with it. Likewise, Peter Chiarelli's teams are "pro fighting" and they win, so why argue with it? If they started losing consistently I'd imagine fans would be less enthusiastic about the organizational philosophy.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

I don't know about other teams, but I suspect that your characterization of Wings fans' attitudes is right...yet incomplete. People around here buy into Kenny's philosophy partially because they don't have an alternative, and partially because it's been SUPER successful during his tenure. If he espoused a "no fighting" philosophy and we missed the playoffs every year I imagine fans wouldn't be so quick to go with it. Likewise, Peter Chiarelli's teams are "pro fighting" and they win, so why argue with it? If they started losing consistently I'd imagine fans would be less enthusiastic about the organizational philosophy.

I definitely think Red Wings fans place a higher premium on skill than most other fanbases, but do not forget that despite Holland's position on fighting, the Cup winning team's all had a physical presence. Some more than others. For example, the modern era Red Wings have yet to win a Cup without Darren McCarty in the lineup.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

agreed.

lol. and you know this how? there have been so many instances of players taking runs at star players on pertty much every team that this notion is laughable.

enforcers do not deter players from taking cheapshots anymore thanks in large part to how the nhl has changed the rules

Remember in 2008, when lapeirre took a run at lidstrom and injured him. downey was in the lineup but that didnt stop him from going after lidstrom

or how about kronwall this past season when mcleod boarded him right next to tootoo.

it's hilarious to think by today's standards that mccarty only got a 5 min major for fighting after that beatdown. If he did that today, he would probably be gone for the year

Monahan made the Flames and could focus fully on hockey, nobody took cheapshots or borderline hits against him and guess why ? People FEAR McGrattan as every cheapshot artist = rat should. The point of the matter is this Pasha is by far the best player on this team he is wasting his last years on a team that doesn't stick up for each other and where the FO doesn't bring in guys that could help out. It's not just about fighting it's that whole "anti physicality" mindset that I'm questioning Downey said it best himself "hey you can hit our players but if you try to take advantage of star/weaker/smallish players someone sneaky will come around the corner..."

The last player who took liberties with Kessel was a behemoth called John Scott nobody else has done so, because nobody wants to answer to Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren. Phaneuf told Crosby to keep to clean his act up or else he would hit him in the same manner...nobody on our team is doing that and maybe just maybe there is already too much complacensy...

Ok Scuderi laid out a clean hit fine, where are the guys that say "ok it's preseason and they are playing this like regular/playoff season in terms of physicality let's hit Maataa, Kunitz ...in the same manner" there is freaking nobody. Things like this are also a bounding experience for team they rally around each other and know everyone heas each others back.