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trule23

Babcock "I don't think it will be my final year here"

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Blash as assistant coach in NHL side by side with Babs if he stays, would be the best of both worlds

Blash was already an assistant for Babs and it only lasted a year. One has to think that happened for a reason. My guess is he wanted to helm his own team, but who know?

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People here say a lot of things.

No kidding.

My point was that people tend to overrate prospects and it's incredibly hard to predict how they will fare in the NHL, even for professionals.

Like these future Red Wings:

"He is a man amongst boys sometimes. He's not overly physical, but he takes the man and plays the body and he's got a little chip on his shoulder at times. But he's more of a skilled guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (December 2005) "He's gotten stronger. He still needs to get a little bit stronger, but at training camp, he came close to making the team. He was definitely good enough to play and stick there. He's the kind of guy who plays better with better players. Down the road, I would think he's going to be a top-four guy. He's good on the power play and he's a real smart kid." -- McDonnell (October 2006)

"He's got very good hockey sense, good stick skills, and he's a Red Wings type of player, the way he thinks the game. We think he's a top two line player. Like with all kids, he needs to improve his strength. He needs to work on his leg strength and get his skating a little bit stronger, but it's just the maturing of the body." -- Red Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill (June 2006) ... "His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (October 2006) ...

That's Kindl and Emmerton.

I hope these young guys turn into NHL d-men, I just don't think you really can tell too much until they get time with the big club.

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No kidding.

My point was that people tend to overrate prospects and it's incredibly hard to predict how they will fare in the NHL, even for professionals.

Like these future Red Wings:

"He is a man amongst boys sometimes. He's not overly physical, but he takes the man and plays the body and he's got a little chip on his shoulder at times. But he's more of a skilled guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (December 2005) "He's gotten stronger. He still needs to get a little bit stronger, but at training camp, he came close to making the team. He was definitely good enough to play and stick there. He's the kind of guy who plays better with better players. Down the road, I would think he's going to be a top-four guy. He's good on the power play and he's a real smart kid." -- McDonnell (October 2006)

"He's got very good hockey sense, good stick skills, and he's a Red Wings type of player, the way he thinks the game. We think he's a top two line player. Like with all kids, he needs to improve his strength. He needs to work on his leg strength and get his skating a little bit stronger, but it's just the maturing of the body." -- Red Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill (June 2006) ... "His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (October 2006) ...

That's Kindl and Emmerton.

I hope these young guys turn into NHL d-men, I just don't think you really can tell too much until they get time with the big club.

I get what you're saying but I think you're over simplifying a bit. I mean, scouts lauded Emmerton and scouts lauded Nyquist. But it would be silly to suggest that there's no telling which of the two would be a better NHLer until they get to the big club. You could tell by their AHL careers who would be better before they ever touched the NHL. One dominated that league, and one was average. That's all I'm saying about these d-men. Jakub Kindl in his best AHL season wasn't as good as Ryan Sproul just was as a rookie. Does that guarantee that Sproul will be stud NHLer? Absolutely not. But it's a pretty good indication that he'll be better than Jakub Kindl. I don't think it's fair to say "we don't know until they get there". We know how these guys project, and we know how far along their developmental trajectories they are based on how well they're playing against their current level of competition. So I think it's safe to draw SOME conclusions from that. Not guarantees. But certainly conclusions.

Edited by kipwinger

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"I don't think it's going to be my final year here.

Pretty strong comment...

"If it is, it is."

Pretty weak comment...

Bab's has been saying some hilarious stuff lately. Saying that "I'm not going anywhere, but if I do, I will" and "the tie will go to the best player."

Is he turning into Kenny?

Edited by themcityblues

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No kidding.

My point was that people tend to overrate prospects and it's incredibly hard to predict how they will fare in the NHL, even for professionals.

Like these future Red Wings:

"He is a man amongst boys sometimes. He's not overly physical, but he takes the man and plays the body and he's got a little chip on his shoulder at times. But he's more of a skilled guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (December 2005) "He's gotten stronger. He still needs to get a little bit stronger, but at training camp, he came close to making the team. He was definitely good enough to play and stick there. He's the kind of guy who plays better with better players. Down the road, I would think he's going to be a top-four guy. He's good on the power play and he's a real smart kid." -- McDonnell (October 2006)

"He's got very good hockey sense, good stick skills, and he's a Red Wings type of player, the way he thinks the game. We think he's a top two line player. Like with all kids, he needs to improve his strength. He needs to work on his leg strength and get his skating a little bit stronger, but it's just the maturing of the body." -- Red Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill (June 2006) ... "His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (October 2006) ...

That's Kindl and Emmerton.

I hope these young guys turn into NHL d-men, I just don't think you really can tell too much until they get time with the big club.

:lol:

Emmerton a top two line player.

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I didn't see this posted yet, but here's Khan's take (emphasis mine):

Babcock has stated his desire to stay, and the Red Wings have made it clear they want him back

But they apparently have only 10 days to reach an agreement on a contract extension or talks will be tabled until after the season, which might reduce the chances that Babcock will return. The deadline was imposed by Babcock, who said he won't negotiate during the season.

"I don't think it's going to be my final year here. If it is, it is," Babcock said Monday. "I've tried to live my whole life in the present, so what happened yesterday doesn't matter. What we're doing today does matter and we'll get on with it tomorrow. I'll get up every day and try as hard as I can, as I always have."

Babcock and general manager Ken Holland have had brief discussions during training camp. They likely will talk at length after the end of the preseason this weekend. That's when the Red Wings are expected to make a formal offer.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/red_wings_mike_babcock_on_cont.html

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Anyone who thinks some other coach would be able to get more out of the teams Babcock's been given lately is out of their damn minds. Losing him would be a major blow. I hope his words are sincere and not PR speak. All things considered though, at this point, I wouldn't be shocked if he stayed or went. I want to believe he's leaning towards staying, so that's what I believe. But again, the fact that no deal is done yet and that there seems to be a bit of a run around going on over the last few months with the whole idea, and just given that he has been here awhile and might want a new experience, I just wouldn't be shocked to see him go either. I really, really, really, really, really hope he stays though. Can't say it enough.

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If Holland signs Quincey and but not Babcock, I will be shocked.

I'm not worried about Holland not wanting to sign Babcock at all; he's clearly been trying to since early in the summer, that is if we are to believe what he's said to the press numerous times. And for as little faith as I have in Holland these days, I don't think he's even remotely stupid enough to want to let Babcock walk without a fight. That Babcock has been at least marginally resistant to getting a deal done is what concerns me slightly. Combine that with Holland not wanting Blash talking to any NHL teams and it's easy to think that Holland isn't so sure Babcock's dead set on continuing to coach the Red Wings. Then again, that could be nothing more than wanting to keep a good coach as long as you can, which is perfectly understandable, though it does seem in contrast somewhat to how the Wings typically approach those sorts of circumstances with other coaches.

In any event, I don't think it would ever amount to a case of the Wings letting Babcock go so much as Babcock deciding to move on if it were to happen. Hopefully it all really is much ado about nothing, which I'm hoping and thinking it likely is. But there's been enough subtle hints that at this point I just wouldn't be entirely shocked if it went either way.

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I get what you're saying but I think you're over simplifying a bit. I mean, scouts lauded Emmerton and scouts lauded Nyquist. But it would be silly to suggest that there's no telling which of the two would be a better NHLer until they get to the big club. You could tell by their AHL careers who would be better before they ever touched the NHL. One dominated that league, and one was average. That's all I'm saying about these d-men. Jakub Kindl in his best AHL season wasn't as good as Ryan Sproul just was as a rookie. Does that guarantee that Sproul will be stud NHLer? Absolutely not. But it's a pretty good indication that he'll be better than Jakub Kindl. I don't think it's fair to say "we don't know until they get there". We know how these guys project, and we know how far along their developmental trajectories they are based on how well they're playing against their current level of competition. So I think it's safe to draw SOME conclusions from that. Not guarantees. But certainly conclusions.

I generally agree with the idea of what you're saying, and it's certainly more true with higher end talent, and it's pretty fair and reasonable overall, but I still think there's a lot more to making it in the NHL than any sort of AHL or other minor league development would suggest. Too many guys have all the tools and progress at a great pace in the minors, and they often hit the NHL running and have strong starts. But then something snaps and things fall apart, sometimes slowly, and sometimes in a giant flame. Some guys hit the NHL and despite what all the projections say, they just never find a way to keep things moving upward on the arc. If you hit the NHL and don't continue to develop in your first few years, you're going to be on the other end of the arc of your career fast, because nothing will drive a player down harder than playing at the NHL level.

There's plenty of reasons for why projections oftentimes don't mean much in reality. Maybe it's the mental side of it and the pressure. Maybe it's quirky injuries taking more of a toll than we realize. Maybe they just always overachieved in a small pond. Hell, maybe it's as simple as the work ethic going down the drain as soon as the big money starts coming in. Even guys on cheap entry level contracts become "rich" generally speaking, at least so far as their immediate future's are concerned. Having plenty of money to blow and the lifestyle that goes along with being a rich professional athlete can be distracting, and it can get the best of some players.

No matter what the reason or circumstance, I've learned that the most reasonable route if we're being objective is to not get too high on anyone until they've really proven themselves at the NHL level for at least a couple of years. It's just too hard to anticipate how guys will respond to the NHL game and all that comes along with it on and off the ice even if they have a ton of talent and potential.

And don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that I'm not optimistic about a lot of our young guys, but I'm not willing to go so far as saying that I'm sold on their ability to carry this team out of the Datsyuk and Zetterberg era yet, and that's no small matter that we'll be dealing with in the not too distant future. I don't say that to knock any of our prospects at all, but I'm going to typically default to a "wait and see" viewpoint until they get to the NHL level and prove they're going to be able to continue to develop and not succumb to the grind and the pressure, the mental agony when you're slumping, the lifestyle, and now more than ever, especially with this team, the injuries.

Also, for the record, given that it's harder to ever to buy talent like we could before the Cap, all that I've said above is why I've become more of a fan of the idea of getting our prospects up to the NHL sooner than we have in the past. I think it's more important than ever to really know what we're working with, and I don't think you truly know about the vast majority of guys until they get to the NHL and prove they have what it takes to not only last, but also to have a solid role with the team that fills a hole that needs plugging. If they can't hack it or if they're redundant, they need to be gone, either to make room or to at least try to package up to trade for guys that can fill the holes we have. I really believe that this team needs to get a lot more agile than they've been in dealing with prospects and acquiring NHL-level talent, even if it's not of the flashy variety. We don't necessarily need the flashiest of teams if we have a well-balanced team.

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All summer long Babs has said the same thing "if you jump, you better make sure the grass is greener before you do"

Honestly, I don't expect him to sign before the season. He's going to coach this season, see exactly what he's got with the kids, see what coaching spots come open this summer, then decide to stick or twist. I live in perpetual fear of him going to coach the Penguins.

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I generally agree with the idea of what you're saying, and it's certainly more true with higher end talent, and it's pretty fair and reasonable overall, but I still think there's a lot more to making it in the NHL than any sort of AHL or other minor league development would suggest. Too many guys have all the tools and progress at a great pace in the minors, and they often hit the NHL running and have strong starts. But then something snaps and things fall apart, sometimes slowly, and sometimes in a giant flame. Some guys hit the NHL and despite what all the projections say, they just never find a way to keep things moving upward on the arc. If you hit the NHL and don't continue to develop in your first few years, you're going to be on the other end of the arc of your career fast, because nothing will drive a player down harder than playing at the NHL level.

There's plenty of reasons for why projections oftentimes don't mean much in reality. Maybe it's the mental side of it and the pressure. Maybe it's quirky injuries taking more of a toll than we realize. Maybe they just always overachieved in a small pond. Hell, maybe it's as simple as the work ethic going down the drain as soon as the big money starts coming in. Even guys on cheap entry level contracts become "rich" generally speaking, at least so far as their immediate future's are concerned. Having plenty of money to blow and the lifestyle that goes along with being a rich professional athlete can be distracting, and it can get the best of some players.

No matter what the reason or circumstance, I've learned that the most reasonable route if we're being objective is to not get too high on anyone until they've really proven themselves at the NHL level for at least a couple of years. It's just too hard to anticipate how guys will respond to the NHL game and all that comes along with it on and off the ice even if they have a ton of talent and potential.

And don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that I'm not optimistic about a lot of our young guys, but I'm not willing to go so far as saying that I'm sold on their ability to carry this team out of the Datsyuk and Zetterberg era yet, and that's no small matter that we'll be dealing with in the not too distant future. I don't say that to knock any of our prospects at all, but I'm going to typically default to a "wait and see" viewpoint until they get to the NHL level and prove they're going to be able to continue to develop and not succumb to the grind and the pressure, the mental agony when you're slumping, the lifestyle, and now more than ever, especially with this team, the injuries.

Also, for the record, given that it's harder to ever to buy talent like we could before the Cap, all that I've said above is why I've become more of a fan of the idea of getting our prospects up to the NHL sooner than we have in the past. I think it's more important than ever to really know what we're working with, and I don't think you truly know about the vast majority of guys until they get to the NHL and prove they have what it takes to not only last, but also to have a solid role with the team that fills a hole that needs plugging. If they can't hack it or if they're redundant, they need to be gone, either to make room or to at least try to package up to trade for guys that can fill the holes we have. I really believe that this team needs to get a lot more agile than they've been in dealing with prospects and acquiring NHL-level talent, even if it's not of the flashy variety. We don't necessarily need the flashiest of teams if we have a well-balanced team.

I agree. Sometimes there are exceptions to what I said above.

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All summer long Babs has said the same thing "if you jump, you better make sure the grass is greener before you do"

Honestly, I don't expect him to sign before the season. He's going to coach this season, see exactly what he's got with the kids, see what coaching spots come open this summer, then decide to stick or twist. I live in perpetual fear of him going to coach the Penguins.

Same and it's hard to blame him the guy's job is getting harder and harder each year, because for whatever reason his GM doesn't help out. Babcock is in the absolute driverseat here, other teams would be firing their coaches just to get a chance to hire him. The only way I can see him staying is pay the man a ridiculous amount of money, a sum that Burkle and Super Mario - both are hockey crazy :( - won't be able to match otherwise I think he is as good as gone.

The only question to me is, would be the Penguins fans accept him after our last Stanley Cup Final in my eyes the "rivalry" between Pittsburgh and Detroit is long gone.

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Same and it's hard to blame him the guy's job is getting harder and harder each year, because for whatever reason his GM doesn't help out. Babcock is in the absolute driverseat here, other teams would be firing their coaches just to get a chance to hire him. The only way I can see him staying is pay the man a ridiculous amount of money, a sum that Burkle and Super Mario - both are hockey crazy :( - won't be able to match otherwise I think he is as good as gone.

The only question to me is, would be the Penguins fans accept him after our last Stanley Cup Final in my eyes the "rivalry" between Pittsburgh and Detroit is long gone.

I think Pens fans would accept him. Don't forget that the Wings hired him from Anaheim two years after he swept Detroit in the first round with a much less talented squad.

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I actually hope it is his final year here.

I agree that he's probably the best coach in the game right now, but no matter how good you are there is a shelf life for coaching in any sport.

He's been coaching the team for the better part of a decade and at this point I don't think his messages have the same effect on the team as they once did.

Next year is Blashill's chance to show what he can do with an NHL team, for better or worse.

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I think people will realize, how good Babcock was when he signs with team Crosby. The writing is on the wall Malkin and Crosby are already praising the guy and contract holdout. Usually a negotiation with the best coach should be really easy... Here is a blank check fill in everything else.

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I think people will realize, how good Babcock was when he signs with team Crosby. The writing is on the wall Malkin and Crosby are already praising the guy and contract holdout. Usually a negotiation with the best coach should be really easy... Here is a blank check fill in everything else.

You don't think people already realize how good Babcock "was"?

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