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trule23

Babcock "I don't think it will be my final year here"

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Because Weiss has done so much for us.

Also wasn't it Ottawa that cut ties? Thought they told Alfie they didn't have the money to resign him.

The point is when is the last time the wings targeted a big name free agent and they did great things here? Most of our targets want nothing to do with us. Weiss hasn't done anything and idk if e had offered from other teams or not. Alfie made a piss poor decision in choosing us over one other team which actually was competing for a cup in te bruins.

No one is taking away from the luck and skill we have in drafting players. But free agency and trades have been Hollands negative for awhile now.

Saying "Because Weiss has done so much for us" shows me you completely missed my point.

From my understanding, Alfie walked away from Ottawa. Sure maybe they wouldn't give him a certain amount of money, but he could have stayed (ala Lidstrom) for less then his market value. Point is, other teams targeted him, we got him. The last UFA that has done something for us....Alfie. The guy had 49 points and led our team in scoring last year. But let me guess, that doesn't count because he is old, again, my entire point.

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Frank and others that always say, "well don't read it then, problem solved...", I don't know about anyone else on here but I don't know until after I read something if it is something that I would categorize as "getting old" or "rubbish" or whatever... But believe me, if I could "unread" a lot of what a few people on here have to say, I most certainly would... Unfortunately that is not an option, so I will have to continue to suffer reading through some of the bulls***... Just as I'm sure, you think the same about me and a few other positive assholes on here... How dare us have a positive outlook on our team...

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I come to check on the LGW forum almost daily on my lunch break/downtime while at work. Sometimes there are some good article links or an amusing game day thread, an interesting rumor or something else worthwhile. Other times it does seem like it is the same small group of people repeating themselves endlessly. I've not posted often because I don't want to be drawn (and quartered?) in and attacked in personal terms for any opinion I express. Or be dismissed because I'm not an active hockey player (in fact I can barely skate). Or because I come off as too positive or negative. etc etc. I just know that I've been a diehard Wings fan for 25+ years now, and I do like to watch the on and off ice moves that the team makes.

Ok, For the sake of staying on topic I'll throw in my two cents on Babcock. I think he is a great coach and does get all the players under him to buy into the system. Sometimes his lines are confusing.. But I think this is a double edged sword. The fact that he is constantly juggling them plays into the whole team having a good chemistry with one another. Being able to mix and match lines gives us a lot of flexibility against other teams in terms of line matchups and with all the injures that we always seem to have, being flexible is a great thing. My gut feeling is that he will resign with us after this season. I don't think it is a sure thing, but for what its worth (very little) I think he'll be back next year.

Other Random stuff: Has no one mentioned DD yet in this threads off topic rehashing of the free agency fight? Come on, credit due to Holland or not folks? (j/k, lets not refight that here..). personally think the big reason we got Alfie is that team Sweden wanted to have a real shot at the gold and we were the clear spot to go if that was what his priority was.

Edit: Spelling errors

Edited by reverb80

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Frank and others that always say, "well don't read it then, problem solved...", I don't know about anyone else on here but I don't know until after I read something if it is something that I would categorize as "getting old" or "rubbish" or whatever... But believe me, if I could "unread" a lot of what a few people on here have to say, I most certainly would... Unfortunately that is not an option, so I will have to continue to suffer reading through some of the bulls***...

Its quite simple actually... Just look at the author of the post before you read it. I wont name names, but I think we all know which ones to avoid... unless youre a masochist.

Edited by Bannedforlife

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I think the "ineffectiveness" of Holland signing free agents is greatly exaggerated. People have very short memories, its as if Weiss and Alfie never came here. Weiss being injured last year some how dismisses the he came here in the eyes of some. In the case of Alfie, he left a team he played on for almost 2 decades and turned down a reported offer from the Bruins to come here. But since he is older, again, people dismiss it, regardless of the outcomes, they were top UFA's 15months ago, and we got them.

Losing out on Boyle (wanted to play with St. Louis), Erhoff (lost out on to an elite team), Nitkansen (Wsh offered more $$/stupid contract and he had ties), and Suter (wanted to be closer to his family) does not mean we are horrible at signing free agents. Its a different NHL in 2014, and when a top UFA becomes available, its not simply a handful of teams that are trying to sign him, you are competing against potentially 29 other teams. Once you take into consideration that the free agent pools now a days are generally weak and that lately where a player signs seems to be coming down the city that the player has personal ties in its extremely hard to sign big time free agents. I'm not saying the Wings couldn't do better, but to imply that Holland is weak in this area I believe is an overreaction.

Criticizing the Weiss signing is very unfair, Holland had no way of predicting the groin injury as he had no major prior history. His only major injury was a broken wrist which should not follow someone once its fully healed.

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Also, one point people have a tendency of overlooking when it comes to Holland/Free agents, is the amount of free agents he retains. The guys rarely loses superstars not named Hossa. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Lidstrom etc. all had a chance to walk, but instead resigned. You have to remember, every time a team gains in free agency, another team loses, and while Detroit has not necessarily been gaining a ton lately, they have not been losing either. I am also glad Holland is not making crippling moves in free agency like a lot of teams out there. Some of the contracts being given out are absolutely terrible.

Other then the Quincey signing, and Cleary promise last year (which isn't that bad given his 2012 playoffs), I think Holland has done a fine job overall in the past few years in regards to free agents.

I have defended the Alfie signing many, many, many times here and am a big proponent of bringing him back this year if he can get his health together, which I sincerely hope he can. I think he's a great asset and that's the kind of veteran move I prefer to see out of Holland.

Is it unfair to criticize Holland about Weiss? On one level, yes, certainly. But has the guy made enough moves that worked out to give him much benefit of the doubt lately? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong; I'm not at all saying we should be pissed Holland signed Weiss, and I don't want to go overboard with anything on this matter, but when I look at how many signings haven't panned out lately, and I see yet another one that has had at the very least a tremendously rough start, I can't help but be concerned and question whether Holland is making the wisest decisions. Is he not being critical enough about player's health and ability to contribute as they age? I know for a fact that several people seemed concerned about Weiss's fragility when we signed him, so it's not a case of trying to rewrite the past.

And for the love, he signed Cleary, two years in a row, and I'm not even one of the people who held him over the coals for the Cleary signing last year. I honestly liked the price relative to the risk, though thought it was unwise given how many forwards we had and what it meant for bringing up guys from GR. This year I found it nothing short of embarrassing, though I have lost far more respect for Cleary than Holland in the situation as Cleary should know that it's time to hang them up and that he's taking a spot from someone who deserves to be on the NHL roster. He should've been the bigger man and let Holland off the hook for the handshake deal after the way last season went. As much as I want to drag Holland over the coals for that one, I'm much more pissed that Cleary had the audacity to hold him to it than anything. Can't say it enough.

I don't want to isolate all of the guys we didn't sign, because I don't really care. Look back through my posting history and you won't find me crying about any of the guys that we pursued but couldn't sign. Sure, I would've liked to have seen it go the other way, but I haven't blamed Holland for them in the individual circumstances. Perhaps at times he may be deserving of it even, but I don't go there. My biggest issue with him is he's done far more bad than good in free agency in the recent past, and I believe that's cause for concern and questioning. When so much cap space is being wasted on guys who don't play, you have to question why these guys are being signed in the first place, and at that point, it goes back to the guy who's offering them the contracts.

And I have given Holland plenty of credit for signing our high end free agents to reasonable deals, but he's also gotten burnt trying to work with mid-level talent. We lost Hossa largely because he didn't properly manage mid-level talent as far as I'm concerned. But I've been happy with most of the deals he's worked out with the RAs too. I'm not one to say he's all bad, but I don't see how anyone can look at how the last few years have gone and not see some very glaring problems that are worthy of reasonable concern.

I think he has strengths and weaknesses as a GM, and one of those strengths is working out good deals with high-end guys and retaining those cornerstones. He's also very good at finding great bang for the buck players in the $1-2 million range; he seems to have a knack for finding skilled guys who may have underachieved and getting solid mid-level work out of them on this roster. But his weakness is with the straight mid-level guys he tries to sign. Those just keep coming back to burn him, and they burn through a lot more cap space as well. With all the money being wasted, and given his skill set, he'd do better overpaying to bring in guys that can absolutely contribute and lead from the higher end pool while plugging holes on the low end with great bargain players. If you're going to burn through money on guys who don't play, why not overpay someone who can play and actually contribute? It's not ideal, but at this point, it's a very reasonable suggestion.

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This is about Babcock not Holland, so I won't discuss his actions or lack there is of during the last years. But personally I believe if both were interested in another contract this thing would have done some time ago.

I can see Babs wanting more autonomy if he re-signs, which might be the reason a extension hasn't happened yet.

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So easy to go off-topic with Babcock or Holland, as it's hard to discuss one without discussing the other.

That said, I still think Babcock stays another year at least if not more, because I don't think for a second that he's BSing when he says that this is where he wants to be. And sure, he's giving himself enough wiggle room that I wouldn't be shocked if he left, but I really do think he'll stay, at least for now.

I do think at the very least making Holland wait, delaying talk of an extension, and dictating that he wants 1-year deals is definitely somewhat of a power play on Babcock's part, and I don't blame him for it at all. That he got the advice from Bowman is not surprising, and that he'll likely be able to pull it off without a hitch says a great deal about how much sway he does indeed have, because he knows he could get hired by just about any team yesterday, today, or tomorrow should he or the organization cut ties. I'm not saying that Babcock is on Bowman's level historically, but in the context of today's NHL, he easily has more power and leverage to dictate the terms of a deal than any other coach in the league.

And that does make me wonder if he is trying to force Holland's hand a bit more on certain issues. As I've said, I don't think Babcock is simply doing lip service when he says that he and Holland have a good relationship and that he values the fact that they have different opinions, I do think Babcock has grown a bit more tired with the way certain things have gone in terms of the roster, and perhaps he's going to try to scrape up a few more of those "votes" he made reference to each year by maintaining his ability to walk away at the end of any given season. It's pure speculation, but I sure wouldn't blame him if that was part of his game. After all, one difference between him and Scotty was the fact that Bowman was much older and was having his own health exams during each offseason here before he made up his mind to come back; Babcock wouldn't be leaving for retirement so as to maximize his quality of life in later years.

I do think Babs is sick of having to send people down to GR that should be in the NHL, and I think he's more than a bit tired of waiting for a right handed shot or two on D, though the former issue is likely the one where he'd press hardest as it's the easiest to address. If he can in any way buy himself more of a say when it comes to such decisions, he'd be wise to do so.

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Guest DeGraa55

If babs doesn't leave(no this isn't my opinion if he will or not since some people like to put words in others mouth).

But if babs does leave I really think blashill could step right in and we wouldn't miss a beat. And given his recent success with the griffins you know the younger would respond well to him. It's the older guys you have to worry about.

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If babs doesn't leave(no this isn't my opinion if he will or not since some people like to put words in others mouth).

But if babs does leave I really think blashill could step right in and we wouldn't miss a beat. And given his recent success with the griffins you know the younger would respond well to him. It's the older guys you have to worry about.

Blashill has yet to c coach a nhl game. Remember Dallas Eakins? Great ahl resume but can't get the job done in the nhl. There would for sure be some growing pains, stepping right in is hard enough but replacing the by far best coach in hockey is even more daunting.

That being said if Babcock walks Blashill will be next in line.

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Guest DeGraa55

Blashill has yet to c coach a nhl game. Remember Dallas Eakins? Great ahl resume but can't get the job done in the nhl. There would for sure be some growing pains, stepping right in is hard enough but replacing the by far best coach in hockey is even more daunting. That being said if Babcock walks Blashill will be next in line.

You're right there is no sure thing when taking that next step. But with such similar styles I think it'd be a smooth transition.

Also maybe....he doesn't use some of the bonehead lineups Babcock has..

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I think blashill may have been a failed attempt at cloning Babcock.

Have you heard him talk?

If you close your eyes, it sound like Babcock with younger vocal chords.

But why failed, from everything I have seen and heard he has the same coaching style, has success at every level he's coached and he knows how to get the most out of his players.

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I have defended the Alfie signing many, many, many times here and am a big proponent of bringing him back this year if he can get his health together, which I sincerely hope he can. I think he's a great asset and that's the kind of veteran move I prefer to see out of Holland.

Is it unfair to criticize Holland about Weiss? On one level, yes, certainly. But has the guy made enough moves that worked out to give him much benefit of the doubt lately? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong; I'm not at all saying we should be pissed Holland signed Weiss, and I don't want to go overboard with anything on this matter, but when I look at how many signings haven't panned out lately, and I see yet another one that has had at the very least a tremendously rough start, I can't help but be concerned and question whether Holland is making the wisest decisions. Is he not being critical enough about player's health and ability to contribute as they age? I know for a fact that several people seemed concerned about Weiss's fragility when we signed him, so it's not a case of trying to rewrite the past.

And for the love, he signed Cleary, two years in a row, and I'm not even one of the people who held him over the coals for the Cleary signing last year. I honestly liked the price relative to the risk, though thought it was unwise given how many forwards we had and what it meant for bringing up guys from GR. This year I found it nothing short of embarrassing, though I have lost far more respect for Cleary than Holland in the situation as Cleary should know that it's time to hang them up and that he's taking a spot from someone who deserves to be on the NHL roster. He should've been the bigger man and let Holland off the hook for the handshake deal after the way last season went. As much as I want to drag Holland over the coals for that one, I'm much more pissed that Cleary had the audacity to hold him to it than anything. Can't say it enough.

I don't want to isolate all of the guys we didn't sign, because I don't really care. Look back through my posting history and you won't find me crying about any of the guys that we pursued but couldn't sign. Sure, I would've liked to have seen it go the other way, but I haven't blamed Holland for them in the individual circumstances. Perhaps at times he may be deserving of it even, but I don't go there. My biggest issue with him is he's done far more bad than good in free agency in the recent past, and I believe that's cause for concern and questioning. When so much cap space is being wasted on guys who don't play, you have to question why these guys are being signed in the first place, and at that point, it goes back to the guy who's offering them the contracts.

And I have given Holland plenty of credit for signing our high end free agents to reasonable deals, but he's also gotten burnt trying to work with mid-level talent. We lost Hossa largely because he didn't properly manage mid-level talent as far as I'm concerned. But I've been happy with most of the deals he's worked out with the RAs too. I'm not one to say he's all bad, but I don't see how anyone can look at how the last few years have gone and not see some very glaring problems that are worthy of reasonable concern.

I think he has strengths and weaknesses as a GM, and one of those strengths is working out good deals with high-end guys and retaining those cornerstones. He's also very good at finding great bang for the buck players in the $1-2 million range; he seems to have a knack for finding skilled guys who may have underachieved and getting solid mid-level work out of them on this roster. But his weakness is with the straight mid-level guys he tries to sign. Those just keep coming back to burn him, and they burn through a lot more cap space as well. With all the money being wasted, and given his skill set, he'd do better overpaying to bring in guys that can absolutely contribute and lead from the higher end pool while plugging holes on the low end with great bargain players. If you're going to burn through money on guys who don't play, why not overpay someone who can play and actually contribute? It's not ideal, but at this point, it's a very reasonable suggestion.

The problem with putting a lot of stock into free agency, is the type of player that was available years ago is just simply not there anymore. Last year is a perfect example, as it was headlined by Paul Stasny and Matt Niskanen. What is happening, is you are getting middle of the road players being paid like they are superstars, in a pre-cap era I would say who cares, but in the cap era, a stupid signing can result in a guy like Jurco, Smith, Gus, Tatar, Sproul, Mantha etc. having to be traded away years from now to stay under the cap (see Boston/Boychuck). In a few years from now watch how many of these signings end up hurting their teams. Holland is making offers, but he seems to know when its too much. Like anyone, I don't like the Quincey signing, but at least in that case it was only 2 years and Holland has a pretty good idea of what he needs to do for next year. These 4-7 years deals are the ones that scare me as there are too many variables to predict.

Who was saying they were worried about Weiss's injury history? The guy practically had none other then the broken wrist?

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I think blashill may have been a failed attempt at cloning Babcock.

Have you heard him talk?

If you close your eyes, it sound like Babcock with younger vocal chords.

The first time I've heard this guy talking was like did I click on a Babcock interview ? He even spells fantastic in the same manner. The thing with AHL coaches is this, very few of them move on to great NHL careers because for some it's too hard to adapt their working system. The Oilers are a perfect example of this, Eakins and his "swarm defense" worked in the AHL because the game is slower, the players aren't as experienced and the talent level isn't that high...but in the NHL his team barely looks ready to compete.

I like Blashill a lot but I would prefer having as an assistant coach while learning under Babcock, just as I would have loved seeing Smith learning from the master himself before he retired.

That being said, Babcock holds all the leverage here, I would go as far as saying...some teams would fire their coach just to hire him. So the only chance of seeing him staying is: making him the by far highest coach in the business and finally give the guy more saying in whom to bring in.

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