Kindl on the block

[WingsallTheway 383]

Im one of the biggest quincey haters out there, and I hate his signing even more than the Cleary one.

Having said that, Quincey is anything but a liability on the ice. He makes dumb plays offensively, kind of the samuelsson version of a defender. His defence is above average, so its too bad he cant do a thing on offence

Having Quincey on the ice does NOT make us worse, but it also doesn't make us any better. His cap hit is rediculous for that.

Back to Kindl,

He's the reason Quincey ever looked bad lastnight

Edited October 10, 2014 by WingsallTheway

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

Oh, my bad. K and Q rocked! Quincey looked bad more than he looked "solid." I like that word "solid." You cannot say he was good, but "solid." He looked "un-solid" to me, the entire game I watched. As did Kindl. Horrible? No....good or "solid?" Hell no...

Also I heard that Cleary was by far the worst guy in the press box last night. He spilled 19 soft drinks and 2 trays of nachos....pathetic!

I agree Ericsson wasn't "solid" either....like I said in the other thread, this team would be perfectly fine without Big E on it as well as Q and K.

I don't think we would be perfectly fine without big rig. He literally had a shattered finger, and it's just now finally healing. So I expect him to be off for a few games, it will take him a couple weeks to really get back in the swing of things. And no one said, hey quincey and kindl were the best, solid was referring to the defensive breakdowns I assume, which were minimal last night. I stand by wanting both those guys off our team. However they had a pretty decent game all things considered.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Quincey was solid, and that's an accurate way to describe his game last night. Smith and Kronwall were good, DeKeyser was great.

There are varying degrees of positive play. You balance out the positive things that players do with any gaffes they make. Smith and Kronner made some real solid plays, and maybe made one or two small mistakes., DeKeyser looked great all around, IMO, and didn't make any noticeable errors. You know who else didn't make any noticeable errors? KFQ, because if he DID... if he did, you better believe LGW would be all over that. So yes, he looked solid. He didn't stand out with anything special, but he didn't make any big mistakes, either. Solid.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Jesusberg

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yup, we should get rid of Ericsson too... I'm really not sure if you're serious LeftWinger or you're trying to troll... Either way, I still don't believe that you watch the games, or you drink a few too many wobbly pops before, during and after, that clearly alters your outlook...

[kliq 3,755]

Denis wiseman? Hes a healthy scratch tonight for cgy, hmmmm maybe a trade for kindl a pick and kindl should do it?

Edit: hes a righty too, 31. Not to bad. Thoughts

No surprise, Kindl's gotta go to free up cap space to sign Nyquist and Smith in the off season.

Which is why I want don't want to touch Widemans 3 more years at 5.25 million cap hit. If they guy is healthy and cant make the Flames, what does that say about his currently skill level.

Yup, Quincey had a terrible game... Do you even watch the games? Or do you just repeat the same old drivel after every game not knowing what really happened?...

I'll agree that they had one bad shift together where they had trouble getting the puck out of the zone, but other than that, Quincey was solid. No he wasn't spectacular by any means but that's not what we expect from Quincey, we just need him to play solid defense, which he did.

Also, Quincey does have some trade value for sure, and it wouldn't surprise me if a couple teams have some interest in Kindl in a few weeks as well.

Completely agree. He had a few good plays last night, I remember a couple times thinking "Good job Quincey". I think people that hate him, just wait for one small thing so they can say "There he goes again, pure garbage" The guy is definitely not Kronwall, but he was solid last night.

[e_prime 1,936]

Which is why I want don't want to touch Widemans 3 more years at 5.25 million cap hit. If they guy is healthy and cant make the Flames, what does that say about his currently skill level.

Wideman is a guy that a few years ago I really wanted on this team. Thought he would be great for the defensive transition years. (Moving on from Lids, Rafalski) He's struggled since moving to Calgary, but is that any real surprise to anyone?

Anyway, we'd have to move both Kindl and Quincey for me to feel comfortable taking on Dennis Wideman's 3 yrs/5.25. I'd still have a problem with a guy making that much money on our third pairing but that's probably where he'd line up. I hate that Q makes as much money as he does, but that's the going rate unfortunately.

I'm still of the mindset: Let's see K and Q string together some "Solid," "Hey, No one can really complain about that gigantic gaffe," "I'm pretty much non-noticable because I'm not ******* up back here," types of games. ...and then we can realistically talk about where they're going other than the waiver wire.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Solid....doesn't mean he is good. If Q remains invisible all season, that would be a positive for him. Doesn't mean he is worth keeping. But anyhow, my point was, of the D, they were the two worst and they made some boneheaded plays. That's all. And we wouldn't miss either of them. IMO we wouldn't miss E either, but some folks are sold by him. That's fine, because its not like we could replace the entire D with rookies, but Q and K are more than replaceable with XO and Jensen.

Back to Kindl by himself, he could be traded for a pick or futures, his roster spot is more valuable than anything he could bring in return.

Edited October 10, 2014 by LeftWinger

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Solid....doesn't mean he is good. If Q remains invisible all season, that would be a positive for him. Doesn't mean he is worth keeping. But anyhow, my point was, of the D, they were the two worst and they made some boneheaded plays. That's all. And we wouldn't miss either of them. IMO we wouldn't miss E either, but some folks are sold by him. That's fine, because its not like we could replace the entire D with rookies, but Q and K are more than replaceable with XO and Jensen.

Back to Kindl by himself, he could be traded for a pick or futures, his roster spot is more valuable than anything he could bring in return.

-Again, no they weren't. If anything, Ericsson was the worst on the ice last night.

-We would most definitely miss Ericsson. He had a rough game, but he's most definitely our best PK guy. No one in the prospect system is going to replace his positioning and size. He may not throw big checks, but he muscles guys around in front and behind the net better than anyone on this team right now.

-Kindl is replaceable by Ouellet, but if Quincey can play like he did last night, why would you replace him right now? The team still needs to find out what they've got in Smith and, to a lesser extent, DeKeyser. I dislike Quincey as much as anyone else, but if he's going to be a solid minute eater, you don't move him out until you've got guys who can play at a consistent level night in and night out. Right now, when one guy struggles, you swap them. This team has three top 4 guys, and two fringe #5's. You don't just throw two rookies into that situation.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Jesusberg

[e_prime 1,936]

While Ericsson did have that horrible mistake that led to Boston's only goal... he did redeem himself in the third by directly making a play that killed a good scoring chance for Boston. I pointed this out in the GDT last night.

It's so much easier to remember the bad plays over the good, but lets not pretend that game in/game out players don't make mistakes that sometimes lead to goals. That's just silly.

I'm in agreement that throwing out two veterans in favor of two rookies is silly as well. We're not so shallow on defense that we HAVE to do that... so why should we? I want to see a rookie come up and get some experience, but not at the expense of games early in the season.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Quincey does nothing at all offensively, but I can tolerate him if he doesn't turn the puck over and is somewhat dependable defensively. I still don't like the contract, but Quincey was fine last night. You shouldn't want a four million dollar player to be "unnoticeable", though that might be best-case scenario with Quincey.

First half Quincey from last season won't cut it. Anything since that point is pretty acceptable.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Q would be worth keeping if we didn't have much more promising players in the pipeline as he can be a run of the mill Dman in the NHL. If we had nothing in GR I would be fine icing him if we can't land anything else in FA. But guys like Q, Lash, and Kindl who don't have much of a ceiling anymore we fans get fed up and want to break in some kids with high potential.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Wanting to break in "some" kids is very reasonable, however, some people are suggesting we have a blueline of Kronwall and the rest kids, which is ridiculous... Everyone wants the shiny new toys and I get that. I personally can't wait to see a few of these guys crack the Red Wings lineup but too many kids on the blueline is a recipe for disaster.

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Jensen

Smith - Ouellet / Sproul

Lashoff

Looks sexy doesn't it? But can you imagine the amount of rookie mistakes that would be made?... Scary. Hence why Holland wants to ease these guys in. What's the rush? Our defense isn't terrible as it stands right now and it will only be better in the long run with patience.

The Red Wing way of over ripening players isn't going to change and for good reason. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, players will pay their dues in the minors and when they finally reach the big leagues they will be good and ready.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Wanting to break in "some" kids is very reasonable, however, some people are suggesting we have a blueline of Kronwall and the rest kids, which is ridiculous... Everyone wants the shiny new toys and I get that. I personally can't wait to see a few of these guys crack the Red Wings lineup but too many kids on the blueline is a recipe for disaster.

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Jensen

Smith - Ouellet / Sproul

Lashoff

Looks sexy doesn't it? But can you imagine the amount of rookie mistakes that would be made?... Scary. Hence why Holland wants to ease these guys in. What's the rush? Our defense isn't terrible as it stands right now and it will only be better in the long run with patience.

The Red Wing way of over ripening players isn't going to change and for good reason. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, players will pay their dues in the minors and when they finally reach the big leagues they will be good and ready.

Ouellet hardly counts as "breaking in" considering Babs says he looks like a vet already. It would just be Jensen or one other kid to break in in addition to Ouellet. I would say keep Lash as a 7th who rides pine and bring 2 kids up would have been my preference (similar to yours).

[kipwinger 8,522]

Wanting to break in "some" kids is very reasonable, however, some people are suggesting we have a blueline of Kronwall and the rest kids, which is ridiculous... Everyone wants the shiny new toys and I get that. I personally can't wait to see a few of these guys crack the Red Wings lineup but too many kids on the blueline is a recipe for disaster.

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Jensen

Smith - Ouellet / Sproul

Lashoff

Looks sexy doesn't it? But can you imagine the amount of rookie mistakes that would be made?... Scary. Hence why Holland wants to ease these guys in. What's the rush? Our defense isn't terrible as it stands right now and it will only be better in the long run with patience.

The Red Wing way of over ripening players isn't going to change and for good reason. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, players will pay their dues in the minors and when they finally reach the big leagues they will be good and ready.

I agree with your point in general, but I would point out that it's not unheard of for a rookie to step in and play on the second or third pair without too many issues (Dekeyser). I think you can't assume that every prospect will be able to handle that, but I don't think a team should be so risk averse that they end up playing worse defensemen just because they're not rookies.

I think part of the reason that Dekeyser was able to step right in is because he was an NCAA product, meaning he was used to a more defensive game (as opposed to Canadian Junior Hockey) , he was used to playing against men, and he was a little older when he finally made the jump. Certainly those are characteristics that Jensen AND Marchenko have in common with him. I wouldn't be surprised if either of those guys were able to step into a limited role on this team and play better than your average 18 year old junior hockey graduate would.

Not a guarantee, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree that either Ouellet or Jensen and maybe even one of the other 3 (Sproul, Marchenko or Backman) could step in and be effective NHLers today, but having too many young guys, like I said, in my opinion is a recipe for disaster. You do need some "solid" vets that know how to be "every dayers"... I'm quite okay with sticking with what we have until we (hopefully) get rid of Kindl and bring up Ouellet or Jensen, and then bring in another next year once one is somewhat seasoned...

[kipwinger 8,522]

I agree that either Ouellet or Jensen and maybe even one of the other 3 (Sproul, Marchenko or Backman) could step in and be effective NHLers today, but having too many young guys, like I said, in my opinion is a recipe for disaster. You do need some "solid" vets that know how to be "every dayers"... I'm quite okay with sticking with what we have until we (hopefully) get rid of Kindl and bring up Ouellet or Jensen, and then bring in another next year once one is somewhat seasoned...

We're still going to end up having to trade at least two of those guys...maybe even three of them. Unbelievable that after having a s***ty defense for like 5 years we'd finally develop this many defensemen in the span of a couple years.

[RusDRW 155]

I don't need detailed statistics to say that today he was the worst def on the ice by far. Way worse than Ericsson who made that turnover.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

We're still going to end up having to trade at least two of those guys...maybe even three of them. Unbelievable that after having a s***ty defense for like 5 years we'd finally develop this many defensemen in the span of a couple years.

Unfortunately at that point Z and Dats will be over the hill and we will be searching for a 1C instead of D.

[e_prime 1,936]

I don't need detailed statistics to say that today he was the worst def on the ice by far. Way worse than Ericsson who made that turnover.

FANCY STATS BE DAMNED!!! I GOT MY EYEBALLLZZ TEST! ...and they say they were ALL HORRRIBBLLLEEE!

Especially Kronwall!!

He didn't Kronwall anyone!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

^{Usually Q is the guy making the brutal passes, but Kindl put it in Q's skates about 5 times last night. He just doesn't think the game well, any of the kids would be a welcome change to Kindl. Hopefully he's gone sooner rather then later.}

[kipwinger 8,522]

FANCY STATS BE DAMNED!!! I GOT MY EYEBALLLZZ TEST! ...and they say they were ALL HORRRIBBLLLEEE!

Especially Kronwall!!

He didn't Kronwall anyone!

You'd think we lost 8-1.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

FANCY STATS BE DAMNED!!! I GOT MY EYEBALLLZZ TEST! ...and they say they were ALL HORRRIBBLLLEEE!

Especially Kronwall!!

He didn't Kronwall anyone!

He did try to though.

[ash11 78]

Kindl and weiss

For

Myers, reports coming in that myers is back on the trading block ....from malik. I would like this deal

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WingsAlways 486]

Kindl and weiss

For

Myers, reports coming in that myers is back on the trading block ....from malik. I would like this deal

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would love this deal, sadly I think the return would be insane. They would want Mantha/Nyquist plus a 1st round pick in addition to Kindl/Weiss.

[kliq 3,755]

I agree that either Ouellet or Jensen and maybe even one of the other 3 (Sproul, Marchenko or Backman) could step in and be effective NHLers today, but having too many young guys, like I said, in my opinion is a recipe for disaster. You do need some "solid" vets that know how to be "every dayers"... I'm quite okay with sticking with what we have until we (hopefully) get rid of Kindl and bring up Ouellet or Jensen, and then bring in another next year once one is somewhat seasoned...

After reading through the different posts in this thread, I was literately going to post something pretty much identical to this as I couldn't agree more.

Rookies make mistakes, and its okay as its a part of the maturation of being a professional hockey player. But, if you have too may rookies in the lineup at once, it can be bad. Bringing along these kids slowly IMO will be better for the long term development of the individuals, and the long term development of this team. Will there be instances where there may be a guy who is in juniors too long......probably. But its about the big picture, and bringing this team back to the top of this league sooner then later opposed to being the next Edmonton.