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roboturner

LGW Moderator Problems

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The sad thing is, I can't tell if he's being sarcastic or not....

That is sad. Perhaps the issue isn't on the moderating end of the equation. Your thread title is Moderating problems but you didn't actually include anything to discuss.

As I said, I'm happy to discuss moderating issues here. My only request is that people take a minute to read the forum rules first. It should help explain much of what we do here.

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

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Maybe there is a problem with the forum rules. Can that get discussed without getting posts deleted and threads locked?


That is sad. Perhaps the issue isn't on the moderating end of the equation. Your thread title is Moderating problems but you didn't actually include anything to discuss.

As I said, I'm happy to discuss moderating issues here. My only request is that people take a minute to read the forum rules first. It should help explain much of what we do here.

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

You know damn well what we're here to discuss

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I agree it's so lame for them to delete harmless posts and then lock the thread. Mods go a little too far "policing", it's not necessary, it takes so much away from this forum because it continually happens. Just because a mod doesn't share the same sense of humor or even opinions doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. And if a mod doesn't agree with a post they shouldn't engage in scrubbing the history like it's Soviet Russia then locking and threatening to ban everyone. It's not like people are posting kiddie porn here...

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DO respect the moderators. They're regular posters just like you, only their job is to keep the forums a pleasant experience for everyone. If you have a problem with a particular moderator, please do not hesitate to private message Matt, the forum administrator.

I think it's pretty evident that this just isn't the case. On every other forum I visit that would be an accurate description. But not here. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

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Maybe there is a problem with the forum rules. Can that get discussed without getting posts deleted and threads locked?

That could also be discussed in this thread, if you actually would raise an issue to discuss.

This is your opportunity to have your opinion heard and discuss how you would like the site to be moderated, since you seem very unhappy with how it is currently run. Instead you're ignoring that opportunity and continuing to make sarcastic complaints.

I think it's pretty evident that this just isn't the case. On every other forum I visit that would be an accurate description. But not here. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

Again, you're just choosing to insult the moderators without actually citing an example to discuss.

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The moderating on LGW is what keeps me around because I get to read threads that stay on topic and dont devolve into childish rants and personal attacks.

To say that LGW is "by far one of the most censored websites on the net" is probably a bit of an overreaction.

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Again, you're just choosing to insult the moderators without actually citing an example to discuss.

Are you kidding? Did you miss what just happened that prompted the opening of this thread? Or do I need to link you back to it to "cite a reference"

EDIT: Also it's kinda hard to link back to something when it no longer exists because a mod already came through and scrubbed the record clean.

Edited by roboturner

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The moderating on LGW is what keeps me around because I get to read threads that stay on topic and dont devolve into childish rants and personal attacks.

To say that LGW is "by far one of the most censored websites on the net" is probably a bit of an overreaction.

I don't have a problem with keeping threads on topic (to an extent. If a conversation evolves then let it evolve. That might be the only exception I'd want).

The problem is Mods deleting harmless posts.

I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say "it's discouraged to post opinions that a mod will simply disagree with" because you might hit a nerve and they'll start deleting posts. Regular posters shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around Mods simply to post their opinion of something.

Claiming that the mods are "just regular posters" is all well and nice, but it just isn't true on this forum.

That's a problem.

Edited by roboturner

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I agree it's so lame for them to delete harmless posts and then lock the thread. Mods go a little too far "policing", it's not necessary, it takes so much away from this forum because it continually happens. Just because a mod doesn't share the same sense of humor or even opinions doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. And if a mod doesn't agree with a post they shouldn't engage in scrubbing the history like it's Soviet Russia then locking and threatening to ban everyone. It's not like people are posting kiddie porn here...

Ok, finally. something to talk about. thank you.

Here's my two cents as a long time member who reluctantly became a moderator.

First, believe it or not I generally try not to delete posts. No matter what the content, as a member here I know how irritating it is just to have your posts seemingly randomly vanish. I do sometimes try to let it be known in the thread why I deleted a post but that most often derails the thread into a discussion of what should and shouldn't be deleted. I may not do it enough but I sometimes send a PM just to give that person a heads up as to why their post got zapped.

Sometimes it can be hard to get an idea of why things get deleted, but it's usually some combination of the following reasons.

If it's wildly inappropriate and against forum rules

If it insults another member or baits them in a way that will likely derail the thread.

Sometimes it's for subtler reasons, like the thread has gotten ugly repeatedly. People insulting one another, going wildly off topic (when you think about it, we let topics generally stray pretty far), or has just required a lot of moderating to clean it up. It will be on a short leash. Speaking for myself, I'll sometimes delete a post I would normally let go because I'm trying to head off a problematic thread from going bad again.

Contrary to popular belief, I NEVER delete a post just because I personally disagree with it. Anyone who's been here for a while should be familiar enough with my posting history to know I'm totally fine with criticizing the Wings or having a minority opinion.

And because I've gotten to know the active mods here I think I can safely speak for them on what is apparently a big secret. Moderating is a pain in the ass. None of this current active group of mods relish the opportunity to delete posts or suspend members. We're first and foremost hockey fans. The more time spent moderating means the less time spent talking hockey, which is why we all came here in the first place.

Are you kidding? Did you miss what just happened that prompted the opening of this thread? Or do I need to link you back to it to "cite a reference"

So what's your question exactly?

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I personally don't see much of a problem with the moderation. In terms of the thread that was locked in GDT, the vast majority of us saw where that thread was headed just based on the OP. People commented, gave their opinions, things started going sour, and the mods still kept the thread alive, based on what small chance that it had of actually succeeding. This warning came amidst a sespool of attacks that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. After the warning, instead of trying to get the thread back on topic, the subject abruptly changes to discussing how terrible the moderation is.... In a Jimmy Howard thread (that in actuality was a Jimmy Howard bashing thread). I really don't see why people are suprised or angry that that particular thread was closed.

As for the particular post of the guy eating popcorn (or whatever it was) that was an immediate response to the initial warning, I probably personally wouldn't have deleted it, but I'm also not a mod that has to deal with cleaning up our garbage every day, so I might be a little naive. But even going off of basic thread etiquette that post was further detailing and already fragile thread. That kind of stuff had better chance of staying alive in a healthier thread, not one where the mods are already pissed off.

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I don't have a problem with keeping threads on topic (to an extent. If a conversation evolves then let it evolve).

The problem is Mods deleting harmless posts.

I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say "it's discouraged to post opinions that a mod will simply disagree with" because you might hit a nerve and they'll start deleting posts. Regular posters shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around Mods simply to post their opinion of something.

That's a problem.

Again, I think a lot of it has to do with context.

If a topic has mostly petered out, I'm fine letting it stray off topic and devolve into a funny gifs or just nonsensical humor to entertain one another. If a topic is still very active but there's a run of goofball posts that are making the thread take a hard left turn off topic, on a rare occasion I delete it. More often I end up deleting posts that insult other members and devolve into arguing about HOW people post here instead of the content of the post.

I'm not sure what exactly happened that give the impression that moderators delete posts they disagree with. There's no way to make you believe me, but that's never been a reason I delete a post. Even when I "like" a post it's not necessarily saying I agree with it, but I like that the person made a thoughtful insightful argument. This place should have plenty of civil, intelligent hockey debate. It'd be so boring if everyone agreed, even if they agreed with me.

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It's not as though the mods saw the first post and locked the thread. Several people disagreed with the thread topic and when they stated their opinion things started to go downhill and the posts were no longer about the thread topic but almost entirely just arguing.

If a post breaks the rules and gets deleted then complaining about it is like complaining when you get a parking ticket after parking illegally.

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I'm not going to continue egging this on, but I've now had several posts deleted and one thread locked and I know I was not being offensive to anyone, or rude, or anything like that (well, except the one, ok so one out of several). So if those are the kinds of threads that will get blocked or banned or whatever, well, I can only speak for myself then and say it's shame. Mods feel they have a job to do, I won't make it any harder for them. I just won't continue to post. Thanks for clarifying your positions.

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I personally don't see much of a problem with the moderation. In terms of the thread that was locked in GDT, the vast majority of us saw where that thread was headed just based on the OP. People commented, gave their opinions, things started going sour, and the mods still kept the thread alive, based on what small chance that it had of actually succeeding. This warning came amidst a sespool of attacks that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. After the warning, instead of trying to get the thread back on topic, the subject abruptly changes to discussing how terrible the moderation is.... In a Jimmy Howard thread (that in actuality was a Jimmy Howard bashing thread). I really don't see why people are suprised or angry that that particular thread was closed.

As for the particular post of the guy eating popcorn (or whatever it was) that was an immediate response to the initial warning, I probably personally wouldn't have deleted it, but I'm also not a mod that has to deal with cleaning up our garbage every day, so I might be a little naive. But even going off of basic thread etiquette that post was further detailing and already fragile thread. That kind of stuff had better chance of staying alive in a healthier thread, not one where the mods are already pissed off.

That's a great synopsis of what happened.

I didn't personally delete the popcorn gif, but probably would have had I seen it first. Even though it was intended as lighthearted, a warning is our attempt to get a troubled thread back on topic. Immediately following a warning with a funny gif (that I'd probably otherwise let live) doesn't exactly help that cause.

Another point I didn't mention is that you have to remember we're not here all the time. We don't see every post in every thread. Take the popcorn gif for example. If I went into that thread and the popcorn gif was immediately after the warning, but there's 10 other posts that are on topic, I'm going to leave it because disaster was averted and the thread stayed on topic.

If I see that gif but there's no other posts after it. I may delete it just to err on the safe side of keeping it on topic.

I hope all this rambling is making sense and providing some insight, because I have to go soon. :lol:

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Again, I think a lot of it has to do with context.

If a topic has mostly petered out, I'm fine letting it stray off topic and devolve into a funny gifs or just nonsensical humor to entertain one another. If a topic is still very active but there's a run of goofball posts that are making the thread take

a hard left turn off topic, on a rare occasion I delete it. More often I end up deleting posts that insult other members and devolve into arguing about HOW people post here instead of the content of the post.

I'm not sure what exactly happened that give the impression that moderators delete posts they disagree with. There's no way to make you believe me, but that's never been a reason I delete a post. Even when I "like" a post it's not necessarily saying I agree with it, but I like that the person made a thoughtful insightful argument. This place should have plenty of civil, intelligent hockey debate. It'd be so boring if everyone agreed, even if they agreed with me.

Look I've had countless posts just disappear on me. Seriously I've lost track, it's that many. And from what I've read other posters have had similar issues.

It isn't an isolated issue, it happens all the time.

And again from other posters as well as my own experience, other forums aren't like this at all. It just doesn't happen. Except here.

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I'm not going to continue egging this on, but I've now had several posts deleted and one thread locked and I know I was not being offensive to anyone, or rude, or anything like that (well, except the one, ok so one out of several). So if those are the kinds of threads that will get blocked or banned or whatever, well, I can only speak for myself then and say it's shame. Mods feel they have a job to do, I won't make it any harder for them. I just won't continue to post. Thanks for clarifying your positions.

I would just ask that if a post of yours is deleted or a thread is locked and you want to know why, please PM one of us. You may not like the answer but it can at least provide you with an explanation.

And to be clear, I'm not kidding when I say PM Matt if you have a problem with the moderating or a suggestion. He's a busy guy and may not get back to you right away so it's probably best to start with a moderator, but he obviously wants this site to be as successful and popular as it can be, and is open to suggestions.

Look I've had countless posts just disappear on me. Seriously I've lost track, it's that many. And from what I've read other posters have had similar issues.

It isn't an isolated issue, it happens all the time.

And again from other posters as well as my own experience, other forums aren't like this at all. It just doesn't happen. Except here.

As I said above, I suggest PM'ing one of the mods. I can't really provide an explanation because I don't know what you're referring to.

I only spend time on a small handful of forums, but honestly the ones I go to are exactly like this or more strict.

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That's a great synopsis of what happened.

I didn't personally delete the popcorn gif, but probably would have had I seen it first. Even though it was intended as lighthearted, a warning is our attempt to get a troubled thread back on topic. Immediately following a warning with a funny gif (that I'd probably otherwise let live) doesn't exactly help that cause.

Another point I didn't mention is that you have to remember we're not here all the time. We don't see every post in every thread. Take the popcorn gif for example. If I went into that thread and the popcorn gif was immediately after the warning, but there's 10 other posts that are on topic, I'm going to leave it because disaster was averted and the thread stayed on topic.

If I see that gif but there's no other posts after it. I may delete it just to err on the safe side of keeping it on topic.

I hope all this rambling is making sense and providing some insight, because I have to go soon. :lol:

There was nothing after the popcorn post....until it got deleted and it rubbed a couple of us the wrong way because as was stated, it seems to happen quite frequently here.

I think what you just posted here is part of the problem in that there is no rhyme or reason to why things get deleted. (Maybe to you there is but certainly not on the outside)

Look, thanks for trying to clarify and everything. If you gotta go we'll continue this later.

I think a lot of us have had some pent up anger over this for a while. Maybe Matt can stop in if he gets a chance to kinda monitor the situation and throw in his 2 cents, hopefully we can get some productive changes made.

EDIT:

DO post constructively. If you can't add anything meaningful to a discussion, don't bother.

I like this rule. It's pretty much what I was trying to say in my OP (of the other thread) and which kinda set me off when it wasn't followed.

Edited by roboturner

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I tend to agree with roboturner. It seems over the past few years the moderation at LGW has become overzealous at times. I'm not inferring any specific moderator(s) either. It is getting very tiresome seeing valid discussions being swept away because of a few individuals who explicitly go off-topic or create personal attacks in threads. It's not right.

Edited by aflac9262

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I do have to run but I do understand the frustration. I spend some time on hfboards and have actually gotten reprimanded by mods there a few times. I get it.

More than anything I guess what I want to demystify is the idea that we're power hungry and throw it around just for the sake of doing it. I've come across mods like that but I can honestly say none of the active mods really are that way here. We're Wings fans who got sucked into LGW like the rest of you, and agreed to be moderators because we like the site and wanted to help Matt out.

And we do check in with one another about what exactly we should let go and when we should step in. It's usually a grey area. And there's multiple mods so we want to enforce consistently but it's tricky sometimes.

We may not always be correct in our thinking for deleting posts, locking threads, etc. but it's not done out of malice. Even if it's misguided, it's generally an attempt to keep productive discussion going here. So if you disagree with something, politely ask. Like I said you may not like the answer, but at least you'll know what the thinking was. And if you disagree with the policy then maybe it can become part of a larger discussion.

Gotta run but I'll check back in to later to ramble on some more... :P

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Look I've had countless posts just disappear on me. Seriously I've lost track, it's that many. And from what I've read other posters have had similar issues.

It isn't an isolated issue, it happens all the time.

And again from other posters as well as my own experience, other forums aren't like this at all. It just doesn't happen. Except here.

Maybe you could make up some stats that keep track of why your content gets deleted. For example,

PIO - Personally insulting others

BAW - Bickering after warning

ALD - Acting like dick

TC% - Trolling content %

Just off the top of my head...

Edited by Bannedforlife

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Maybe you could make up some stats that keep track of why your content gets deleted. For example,

PIO - Personally insulting others

BAW - Bickering after warning

ALD - Acting like dick

TC% - Trolling content %

Just off the top of my head...

It looks like you just scored in every category. So congrats for the irony award.

Edited by roboturner

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You guys are right. Other sites are much more lenient. Which is why they suck. I actually think the mods do a great job of keeping things on topic and stopping things from getting out of hand. Sorry if you are butt hurt cause your Howard bashing thread was locked but seriously grow up. The mods usually join in on conversation and joke around, and sometimes they have to enforce forum rules. Go to hfboards if you want total anarchy

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Just trying to help. You seem to have a hard time figuring out why your ish keeps disappearing, I thought it might make it easier to identify and correct the problem if you have some data to analyze.

Personally, I can't remember the last time one of my posts got deleted....

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Mods delete posts just because they disagree with the opinion? I've never experienced this or heard about anyone having this problem ever.

Whenever I've had posts disappear it's because I broke the rules. Sometimes I know I'm breaking the rules when I do it too. Sorry mods, sometimes I can't help myself. The rules are pretty clear and we still get away with a lot IMO. I apologize for this afternoons thread lock, but based on how this thread is going I think most can see why that thread went bad.

I still don't think the GIF should have been taken down, but I understand Harold's reasoning for it.

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