LGW Moderator Problems

[vladdy16 2,154]

I can't add a lot to what harold has already said, but I will chime in with sometimes posts are deleted because they're responding to a post that needed to be deleted and to leave it would make no sense.

I deleted a whole page from the Howard thread. I knew that thread was going to be trouble the minute it was started, but did what I could to keep it alive because it had the potential to be a good discussion. I will guarantee that I personally have never deleted a post simply because I disagreed with the opinion stated therein. If I delete a post, more often than not it's because it contains a personal attack, or more recently contains information Matt would prefer not be available on LGW for legal reasons. Personally I would rather refute an opinion than delete it. If we all thought the same way, it would make for poor discussion.

Another suggestion I'd like to make is to PLEASE PM a mod if you have any questions or concerns - don't post in GD threads. It will be deleted because it's off topic (not the place for those types of conversations), not because we're power-hungry. Seriously, cleaning up off topic or personal attack posts is not in my top ten ways to spend an evening.

[number9 3,297]

To add something constructive,

I think some threads get closed to early. For example, I bumped the Howard = Average thread today - mostly bc I was being a, how did the OP put it? little **** - and that bump understandably got removed. However, had I bumped it for good/healthy reasons I think it should have stayed up. A lot of these threads evolve into interesting discussions even though they may technically be off topic. I guess I'm trying to say maybe let some of those go for a while instead of just saying "this can be talked about somewhere else".

It's the ones that are like "Goodbye, I'll be back in the fall" or "Hey its fall, I'm back" that I think should be taken down swifter. They are not legit topics IMO and don't really contribute anything constructive.

Also, this is probably never going to happen, but BRING BACK NEGS. It was easier to just not get involved when I knew a poster was already well on one side of the fence or just generally disliked.

Lastly, I know I haven't always been the most respectful to you Harold, or some of the other Mods. But I truly respect what you guys do here, and it's why, despite how bad things can get, I haven't bolted for Reddit or HFboards. I know if I was a moderator here LGW really would need tinfoil hats to protect themselves from my Nazi-agenda.

Predsfan? HERESY BANNED ON SIGHT. Fighting is dumb? BAN-SLAM. We should tank for X-player? RICHDG BANNED "I think guys with a 7 in their number are the best players?" 9 LIFETIME BANS.

Thanks again

[sleepwalker 512]

Just jumping in here, I don't really even know what everyones current beef is...BUT...

I definitely think that in the past year or two that this has become by FAR the most heavily censored and overly moderated sites on the web that I visit.

Especially absurd, considering this is supposed to be a casual sports site.

It is what it is, I guess....

*shrug*

Edited October 14, 2014 by sleepwalker

[number9 3,297]

Just jumping in here, I don't really even know what everyones current beef is...BUT...

I definitely think that in the past year or two that this has become by FAR the most heavily censored and overly moderated sites on the web that I visit.

Especially absurd, considering this is supposed to be a casual sports site.

It is what it is, I guess....

*shrug*

Dude give some examples. I don't know what you think is heavily censored and what's not. Just saying that it is does no good for any of us.

I tend to push things sometimes and know when I'm going over the line, but I've never thought Mods themselves were going too far for the most part. Is it that the line is too strict? Or being interpreted too strictly?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

This is my favorite thread in the last year.

Gotta run but I'll check back in to later to ramble on some more...

Maybe you can go back home to your Kings forum, mod.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Gonna throw my gas on this bonfire.

There have been a few members promoted to Mod in the last few years that surprised me. Surprised me to the point to where I PM'd Matt and asked how much money I had to send him to be a Mod because __________ obviously paid him to be one. This was following a tussle I had with said mod following a post/topic I posted and was promptly removed (probably about my wanting to trade Babcock following a playoff exit). I believe the mod told me to keep it in the GDT and following my explanation that the season was over and this was a valid thread, they essentially told me to F off because I was just bitching.

Now, when someone starts a thread with a coach/player's name in the title that will obviously be a critique of his play/leadership, Mods and members both know that there will be some mud slinging. If you don't then welcome to the internet. There very well may be some off topic posts, attacks, and trolling. Just delete it. Or better yet, cross out all the text and add a response as to why it was crossed out and give a warning. Flame-bating doesn't belong. But when the Mods close a legit thread, or remove a post that was meant as a poke at the Mods treating the thread like a Third Reich library, then something is wrong.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Just want to say that I think the mods on here are pretty decent.

Anyone with any common sense can see when a thread is jumping the shark. It’s like “ahhh s***, the mods are going to be all over this s***”. Like I said, obvious, common sense. Use your head and things will work out alright.

Also, whof****** cares if your thread gets locked or your post gets deleted? Grow a pair. ESPECIALLY if you’re inventing stats like “Bad Pass Goals”.

There are a billion ways to do business on LGWs. Pick another way.

For the record, I have two warning points. So I could be just as annoyed as some, BUT, I deserved what I got. 100%.

Edited October 14, 2014 by rick zombo

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

All in all, considering how few complain about the moderation on this site in comparison to how many lacked the need to even open this thread, I think it's safe to say that things are run pretty fair. It's impossible to please every member of every community on the internet. There are rules, and rules are left to interpretation. People like myself and the other moderation staff here are constantly faced with decisions to determine whether or not something is out of line or not, in violation of the site rules, and feel the need to edit or censor some of the posts here. Even beyond that, predicting when a comment or a thread is headed in a vicious direction before it even reaches that point in efforts to prevent an awful scenario. No site in the history of the existence of the internet has a community 100% in agreement that things are run entirely in perfection, there will always be conflicts, disagreements, and arguments about how forums are run, moderated, and censored. There will always be members that attempt to push the limits and aggressively debate the result when they are told they have gone too far.

We are one community of many, are in consistent communication with each other to improve, fine tune, and moderate ourselves on the job we are doing on maintaining a successful discussion forum that appeals to the masses and remains friendly and accessible to hockey fans of all ages. This is one of the best online sports fan sites online for a reason, and there are other options out there if you are displeased with how it is run so badly that it's reached a level of intolerance with you.

I trust in Matt, and the rest of the moderation team here to fully enforce the site rules and maintain a great community.

[roboturner 562]

1: "Datsyuk has 'X' amount of takeaways this season, and 'Y' amount led to goals"

2: "Datsyuk Howard has 'X' amount of takeaways giveaways this season, and 'Y' amount led to goals"

EDIT: I'll go one more.

3. "Datsyuk Smith has 'X' amount of takeaways giveaways this season, and 'Y' amount led to goals"

I really don't see the problem here. How many people are going to throw a fit about the first one and claim it isn't a real stat? I doubt many would.

If you are fine with two of those stats, but claim the second one is just 'made-up'.....you might have a bias!

Edited October 14, 2014 by roboturner

[Kmahrle83 61]

I agree it's so lame for them to delete harmless posts and then lock the thread. Mods go a little too far "policing", it's not necessary, it takes so much away from this forum because it continually happens. Just because a mod doesn't share the same sense of humor or even opinions doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. And if a mod doesn't agree with a post they shouldn't engage in scrubbing the history like it's Soviet Russia then locking and threatening to ban everyone. It's not like people are posting kiddie porn here...

My brother was perma banned 2 years ago because he told a mod he was "being a nazi", because he made a post about how refs were a holes and used it to vent his frustrations about something that happened in game that the mod didn't agree with. He contacted matt about this and said it was personal and matt simply said "I trust my mods, sorry".

[vladdy16 2,154]

For the record, Matt has access to every post or thread that is deleted. There is nothing mods can remove that can't be reviewed by Matt.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I've only had an issue with one mod who went overboard deleting posts. I pmed him and it let up. Hfboards are far worse. Redwingscentral has no mods so if that's your thing check it out.

[korrowan 111]

This board is far more lenient than HFBoards. I said Dekeyser shot was tipped by Franzine and went off of Abdelkader and it got deleted and I got a warning.... Considering what a festering cesspool that site is that they will delete that and giving a warning is pretty pathetic. The warning and reason for deletion was the use of Franzine...

Edited October 14, 2014 by korrowan

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

My brother was perma banned 2 years ago because he told a mod he was "being a nazi", because he made a post about how refs were a holes and used it to vent his frustrations about something that happened in game that the mod didn't agree with. He contacted matt about this and said it was personal and matt simply said "I trust my mods, sorry".

i can't speak to that specific incident but in my time as a mod here, it takes a whole lot more than that to get permabanned. That may have been the straw that broke the camels back.

Typically people are pissed after they've been warned or had a post deleted and will react in anger so I try to let it slide. But then after that initial reaction subsides I can usually have a civil discussion with them about what happened. Not always, unfortunately, but usually.

It also brings up another point to touch on from the perspective of a moderator. I can say that out of all the warnings and suspensions I've given, probably 90% of the people who PM me about their suspension say it's because I have some personal problem with them. They've never been right. Sure there's been a couple members I found somewhat irritating, but probably not nearly as many as you think given how long I've been doing this and the number of people here. And when an incident did arise with those people, I defer to other moderators about any potential incident, because I don't want any personal irritation to influence my moderating.

And to be clear, that irritation is never because someone has an unpopular opinion. If your posts are thoughtful, civil, passionate about hockey, even if unpopular, I'm probably a fan of your work.

The moderators all check in with one another about people who have become a problem and discuss the issues. When someone is warned or suspended, it leaves a record and an explanation that all the other moderators can look at. So no one is going rogue, banning members willy nilly. We're certainly not perfect, but we do try to maintain a level of consistency and do a good job for Matt.

Ultimately it's like officiating. If everyone is a little irritated with us on any side of an issue, we probably handled it okay.

[rrasco 1,312]

This is def TL;DR, but I've had a bunch of posts removed over the years and yeah it's annoying but most of the time I know I'm walking the line, *most of the time*. I've had a few instances where my post just disappeared when I don't even know why but meh, I've modded enough forums to not even care and know it's a royal pita.

Note to self: you're not allowed to post juck effin pot pictures.

What's most annoying to me is when I read through a thread wanting to post something only to find out it's been locked because people went bat s*** crazy and got it locked. Usually those posts are removed so I am not even aware s*** derailed until the end of the thread.

Edited October 14, 2014 by rrasco

[Matt 1,048]

I'll get these two out of the way first...

There have been a few members promoted to Mod in the last few years that surprised me. Surprised me to the point to where I PM'd Matt and asked how much money I had to send him to be a Mod because __________ obviously paid him to be one.

This never happened. I checked, because getting a PM that puts a $ figure on the management decisions made on this site is a monstrous slap in the face and something I would've absolutely remembered if it, you know -- actually happened.

My brother was perma banned 2 years ago because he told a mod he was "being a nazi", because he made a post about how refs were a holes and used it to vent his frustrations about something that happened in game that the mod didn't agree with. He contacted matt about this and said it was personal and matt simply said "I trust my mods, sorry".

There is no single faster way to get yourself perma-banned on this site (other than being a 1st-post blatant troll) than directly insulting the moderators on here. It's surprising how many people feel a persecution complex and think it's a personal vendetta when they have a posted edited/deleted. Now, this may sound harsh: You're not that important. Really.

___________


Now that that's out of the way... Moderating is an absolutely thankless job. It has been stated continuously that you simply cannot keep everyone happy. It's an accepted fact. What Harold, vladdy, MB, Jedi et al have stated is absolutely true. Every thread that gets removed, every post, gets moved to a special sub-forum within the moderator forum. It's all there. There's discussion on how to handle certain situations that come up if disciplining a member might be required. They volunteer their free time to help keep the ship righted. I'm immeasurably indebted to them for doing so.

I've also stated repeatedly that I have absolutely no problem with dissenting opinions on this site -- it is what makes for a diverse community. Let's face it, no one wants to have the forum turn into one giant circlejerk where everyone agrees with each other and it's all lollipops and ponies.

Now this may come as a surprise, but:

• I do reply to PMs. Yes, I'm incredibly busy day-to-day, but I do make time and I do get notified. Now, if you have a concern about the moderating or another poster, just let me know. Be an adult about it, and I reciprocate. "THANKS FOR THE POLICE STATE!!1!" PMs will be summarily ignored (you know who you are). It is very rare I get PMs relating to something like this at all. I'm not the boogieman.
  
• I have reversed moderating decisions. Now, it doesn't happen often, but it does. You know how that dialog gets started? PM me. Moderators make mistakes. I make mistakes. We're not above rectifying them.
  
• I do want your feedback! There are good reasons that this site has been around for over 18 years now -- this baby is already heading off to college. It's been built upon that sense of community, of taking care to listen to the suggestions and concerns that the members here share, and by a fantastic moderating crew.

The last thing I'd want this site to become is over-moderated. I'd love it if the site didn't even need any. Anyone that knows me on here knows I'm all for no curse filter, some good animated banter that doesn't get personal, etc.. But I don't want comment spam. I don't want flame wars. I don't want cursing just for the sake of it.

I'd like to think of this place as a virtual sports bar, with each of you pulled up on your own stool, with a cold beer in your hand and a hearty rant about the values of CORSI and Jimmy Howard's SV% on Saturday afternoon games during Leap Years when Mike Emrick is calling the game and Babcock is wearing his McGill tie at the tips of your fingers. Don't take it too seriously, and enjoy it in a manner that contributes to make the site better for everyone.

Is that too much to ask?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Just want to say that I think the mods on here are pretty decent.

Anyone with any common sense can see when a thread is jumping the shark. It’s like “ahhh s***, the mods are going to be all over this s***”. Like I said, obvious, common sense. Use your head and things will work out alright.

Also, whof****** cares if your thread gets locked or your post gets deleted? Grow a pair. ESPECIALLY if you’re inventing stats like “Bad Pass Goals”.

There are a billion ways to do business on LGWs. Pick another way.

For the record, I have two warning points. So I could be just as annoyed as some, BUT, I deserved what I got. 100%.

Only two. Please.

[55fan 5,133]

What's most annoying to me is when I read through a thread wanting to post something only to find out it's been locked because people went bat s*** crazy and got it locked. Usually those posts are removed so I am not even aware s*** derailed until the end of the thread.

I've gotten stung with that on many occasions. I type up a post and go to post it and -bang- the thread is gone. I don't blame the mods. I blame the wee knees who messed it up. (Ok, maybe at the moment I grrr at the mods for not leaving it up that one split-second more, because, you know, they can read minds and all that.)

I have to admit that there are times when it gets irritating and I have to quit reading in the middle of a thread, but there are other times I'm the one with the popcorn.

At the end of the day, we all have something to say and if it doesn't fly here we can go post it on facebook or another forum or something. Or yell at the cat. Or the plants. Or our shoes...

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

• I have reversed moderating decisions. Now, it doesn't happen often, but it does. You know how that dialog gets started? PM me. Moderators make mistakes. I make mistakes. We're not above rectifying them.

Matt, just one question? Can you bring back any of the following posters?

Mindfly,

Jake Ryan

Carman

E_S_A_D

Micah

Crymson (no, seriously)

GordieSid&Ted

Miller Brew

stinkyfishtaco

fat guy in a maltby jersey

I've gotten stung with that on many occasions. I type up a post and go to post it and -bang- the thread is gone. I don't blame the mods. I blame the wee knees who messed it up. (Ok, maybe at the moment I grrr at the mods for not leaving it up that one split-second more, because, you know, they can read minds and all that.)

I have to admit that there are times when it gets irritating and I have to quit reading in the middle of a thread, but there are other times I'm the one with the popcorn.

At the end of the day, we all have something to say and if it doesn't fly here we can go post it on facebook or another forum or something. Or yell at the cat. Or the plants. Or our shoes...

That's it. I'm starting a "Kronwall is Overrated and He Sucks" thread.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'd like to think of this place as a virtual sports bar, with each of you pulled up on your own stool, with a cold beer in your hand and a hearty rant about the values of CORSI and Jimmy Howard's SV% on Saturday afternoon games during Leap Years when Mike Emrick is calling the game and Babcock is wearing his McGill tie at the tips of your fingers. Don't take it too seriously, and enjoy it in a manner that contributes to make the site better for everyone.

Is that too much to ask?

This. A million times this.

[Bannedforlife 403]

[*]I have reversed moderating decisions. Now, it doesn't happen often, but it does. You know how that dialog gets started? PM me. Moderators make mistakes. I make mistakes. We're not above rectifying them.

There was a thread about 4 or 5 years ago that somehow, spontaneously, amazingly, evolved into a 3 page running joke using players names as puns. It was completely harmless and was in no way offensive or insulting to anyone. It was the funniest thing that has ever happened around here. It got deleted.

Can we have that one back? I still think about it sometimes...

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Only two. Please.

I only have one. I must be a good boy I deserved it though. I let a few people get to me, didn't even pm the mods to complain either, cause I knew after a couple of my posts were deleted and I kept going that the hammer was coming down. I think of the mods like my parents. Every once in a while they need to take a wooden spoon to me, I can cry and get sent to my room, or just accept the punishment and go back to playing with the other kids.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I only have one. I must be a good boy I deserved it though. I let a few people get to me, didn't even pm the mods to complain either, cause I knew after a couple of my posts were deleted and I kept going that the hammer was coming down. I think of the mods like my parents. Every once in a while they need to take a wooden spoon to me, I can cry and get sent to my room, or just accept the punishment and go back to playing with the other kids.

I have 5. Deserved some and didn't feel like I deserved others. Haven't been in a flame war since probably 2010 or so. Just don't have the energy anymore. Too many posters I liked have come and gone since then because of these petty internet arguments. I miss a lot of their posts.

So for all you people who think I'm annoying now, you're lucky you weren't around here in 2007-2009.

This. A million times this.

BTW, I'm thinking about starting a thread that talks about how much Harold Snepsts sucked as a player and was an overrated fighter. What do you think?

[Franzine 739]

I deleted a whole page from the Howard thread.

Matt, do you honestly not think this is creepy?

I understand deleting -- but never, ever editing -- a post if it contains something illegal or an image that isn't "family friendly," but you do not need to try to purify threads so that they contain only "respectful" hockey talk. I wouldn't read this forum almost daily if I didn't want to read about hockey, but I want to read a forum, not a blog. Lock -- or why not just move -- threads if you must, but do not, if you're an adult man or woman, delete or edit posts.

[55fan 5,133]

I only have one. I must be a good boy I deserved it though. I let a few people get to me, didn't even pm the mods to complain either, cause I knew after a couple of my posts were deleted and I kept going that the hammer was coming down. I think of the mods like my parents. Every once in a while they need to take a wooden spoon to me, I can cry and get sent to my room, or just accept the punishment and go back to playing with the other kids.

I view the mods as my bar buddies who pull me back by the elbow when I'm drunk and waving my fists around yelling "Let me at him!"

They buy me another drink, call me a cab, and assure me that I could have taken him but it wouldn't have been worth the bother of getting arrested.