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Guest Praying Mantha

10/21 GDT - Red Wings 1 at Canadiens 2 (OT)

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I like being stingy defensively but we are barely averaging 2 goals a game. That's not winning hockey. I think it's a matter of getting the right line combos but alas we'll have to get shut out/beaten miserably for babs to make a change. Still waiting for those defensive pairing change to stick for longer then a period. The most frustrating part is it's the lines/pairings the fans have been screaming for and we finally get them, see instant success and they get changed

It is winning hockey. Hence the winning record and as I said if the power play had any life at all that number would be better, and the power play will eventually wake up

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If we continue to play soccer, every bad call will affect us. If we are up 6-2 or down 7-1, who cares if a ref blows a call. We don't have an elite goaltender. We have a good goaltender, but not an elite one. You have to have an elite goaltender if you wanna play soccer.

I understand the point you're making, but lets not get carried away. I don't want to win or lose by 4 goals a night. That's not going to get you into the playoffs. But 50% of the 10 games last night were decided by two or more goals. So it's not like offense and defense are mutually exclusive. I'd just like to be reasonably sure that if we're down by a goal we've at least got a chance to come back, and if we're up by a goal we've at least got a shot at being able to score again. As it is, I have no faith in either of these things. And the only way anybody seems to be able to justify our current approach is by pretending we live in a fantasy world were refs don't occasionally make bad calls.

Was I the only one last night that KNEW Montreal was going to get the next goal and tie the game? I would have bet anybody on LGW if they had waged Detroit would score again before Montreal scored to tie it.

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No, the style of play is not fine. The speed of the young guns is great and all but:

nobody is making life miserable when other players are standing infront of the net, screening Howard or the monster. As the old saying goes you gotta pay the price for doing that. One of our defenders simply has to take exception to that and check, box, cross-check sthe other player out of that area.

Bad calls are going to happen and at least to me that one was much worse than the one against Anaheim (after reading Frasers comments I actually can see the point the refs had there...), but Price jumping into Abdelkader ? *lol* whatever there's nothing we can do about that now but I know one thing for sure, hopefully I don't have to watch the Habs winning a Stanley cup soon because they for sure don't know how to celebrate with class (doesn't surprise given how some of their players act...)...learn to celebrate with style instead of that stupid over the top celebrations.

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Guest Praying Mantha

I understand the point you're making, but lets not get carried away. I don't want to win or lose by 4 goals a night. That's not going to get you into the playoffs. But 50% of the 10 games last night were decided by two or more goals. So it's not like offense and defense are mutually exclusive. I'd just like to be reasonably sure that if we're down by a goal we've at least got a chance to come back, and if we're up by a goal we've at least got a shot at being able to score again. As it is, I have no faith in either of these things. And the only way anybody seems to be able to justify our current approach is by pretending we live in a fantasy world were refs don't occasionally make bad calls.

Was I the only one last night that KNEW Montreal was going to get the next goal and tie the game? I would have bet anybody on LGW if they had waged Detroit would score again before Montreal scored to tie it.

I'm exaggerating. You are right. Sorry. I don't mind soccer in the playoffs, but soccer for 5 straight years isn't all that fun when you're not winning cups or even close.

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I understand the point you're making, but lets not get carried away. I don't want to win or lose by 4 goals a night. That's not going to get you into the playoffs. But 50% of the 10 games last night were decided by two or more goals. So it's not like offense and defense are mutually exclusive. I'd just like to be reasonably sure that if we're down by a goal we've at least got a chance to come back, and if we're up by a goal we've at least got a shot at being able to score again. As it is, I have no faith in either of these things. And the only way anybody seems to be able to justify our current approach is by pretending we live in a fantasy world were refs don't occasionally make bad calls.

Was I the only one last night that KNEW Montreal was going to get the next goal and tie the game? I would have bet anybody on LGW if they had waged Detroit would score again before Montreal scored to tie it.

Correct. It's not that this new to us. This problem haunts us for two or three seasons now. Great teams find a way to win regardless of wrong calls against them. We are obviously not one of them (yet).

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It is winning hockey. Hence the winning record and as I said if the power play had any life at all that number would be better, and the power play will eventually wake up

I think you're on shaky ground here. You're saying get a goal or two at even strength and another goal or two on the PP is "winning hockey"...which it is. But now you're talking about 3-4 goals per game rather than 2 or less...which isn't "winning" hockey.

A year ago, 8 of the 10 teams with the lowest "goals for" average in the league didn't make the playoffs. ALL of the top ten did.

Granted, one of the teams on the low end (Los Angeles) won the Stanley Cup. Now you can decide all on your own whether we're more like Los Angeles or more like the other 8 teams on the low end of the "goals for" spectrum, but we both know what their roster looks like compared to ours. As such, unless Holland can find us a prime Jeff Carter, Drew Doughty, Jonathan Quick, Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown, etc. lying around, it's probably not a good idea to model our game after theirs.

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Guest Praying Mantha

I think you're on shaky ground here. You're saying get a goal or two at even strength and another goal or two on the PP is "winning hockey"...which it is. But now you're talking about 3-4 goals per game rather than 2 or less...which isn't "winning" hockey.

A year ago, 8 of the 10 teams with the lowest "goals for" average in the league didn't make the playoffs. ALL of the top ten did.

Granted, one of the teams on the low end (Los Angeles) won the Stanley Cup. Now you can decide all on your own whether we're more like Los Angeles or more like the other 8 teams on the low end of the "goals for" spectrum, but we both know what their roster looks like compared to ours. As such, unless Holland can find us a prime Jeff Carter, Drew Doughty, Jonathan Quick, Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown, etc. lying around, it's probably not a good idea to model our game after theirs.

My concern is that our "system" doesn't seem to work too well against certain teams (Boston). Might be a good idea to be able to play multiple styles, yah?

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It's very simple. Score on the PP at a rate better than the 4th worst in the league, 8.3%, and this team has at least one more win right now.

What the hell's wrong with our powerplay anyway? I mean, we've got more skilled players than we've had for 4-5 years and we're somehow worse on the PP. I don't get it.

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What the hell's wrong with our powerplay anyway? I mean, we've got more skilled players than we've had for 4-5 years and we're somehow worse on the PP. I don't get it.

All I can figure is that zone entries are a problem. They were an issue last season as well. That plus the insane fact that there is only one right-handed shot on the team and his name sure as hell isn't Alexander Ovechkin.

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What the hell's wrong with our powerplay anyway? I mean, we've got more skilled players than we've had for 4-5 years and we're somehow worse on the PP. I don't get it.
There might be more skill in theory (Debatable) but outside of Dats, Hank, and now Nyquist there is no consistant NHL scoring from the young kids right now. The kid line is at best mediocre NHL scorers right now. No true PP qn or big shot hurts the most.

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No, the style of play is not fine. The speed of the young guns is great and all but:

nobody is making life miserable when other players are standing infront of the net, screening Howard or the monster. As the old saying goes you gotta pay the price for doing that. One of our defenders simply has to take exception to that and check, box, cross-check sthe other player out of that area.

Bad calls are going to happen and at least to me that one was much worse than the one against Anaheim (after reading Frasers comments I actually can see the point the refs had there...), but Price jumping into Abdelkader ? *lol* whatever there's nothing we can do about that now but I know one thing for sure, hopefully I don't have to watch the Habs winning a Stanley cup soon because they for sure don't know how to celebrate with class (doesn't surprise given how some of their players act...)...learn to celebrate with style instead of that stupid over the top celebrations.

I would like to add to this as well. I'm sure everyone noticed it but how many crosschecks,spears and elbows was that idiot P.K going to get away with before someone jacks him up? If you noticed when we were finishing our checks and really getting our hands dirty is when we were taking it to the Diving Canadians but when we stopped that's when the Diving Canadians came back. We can't score like we would like right now so we have to win the battles else where but when we even lose those there is no hope. I understand no one wants a goon on the team but damn we need some sandpaper or at least someone to step up and punch players like PK in the mouth. How many helmets did you guys see on the ice last night? Yeah more then I have ever seen hit the ice in a game.

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All I can figure is that zone entries are a problem. They were an issue last season as well. That plus the insane fact that there is only one right-handed shot on the team and his name sure as hell isn't Alexander Ovechkin.

This, and I'm surprised that zone entries are an issue with this team, and I disagree with the way that our coaches are trying to establish the offensive zone on the power play.

The past decade or so, the Wings' identity has been all about meticulous puck possession, and precision-passing, and being very patient with the puck and waiting for a hole to briefly open up somewhere and exploit it. We had the personnel to thread the needle on every play, and the intelligence to position ourselves one step ahead of the opposition. That's how the Wings dominated the previous decade. The past few years, while our roster has been largely the same, some key players retired, others got older and more broken-down, and all of a sudden the "well-oiled-machine" that was the Red Wings wasn't functioning like we expect it to. Thankfully the kids came in last year and the team was able to keep the playoff streak alive, but wait, these kids are a whole different breed of hockey player than we're used to. They're all fast and aggressive, and force the tempo of the game up on opposition. This year the Wings look very different, and its not just the roster. Its the way the team is approaching the game. Instead of relying on precision passing, and superior hockey IQ, and patience, this team is playing hard and fast (like Brannigan's love), quick on the forecheck, quick on the backcheck, playing what can almost equate to an offensive swarm. Even the defense have been getting involved, forcing the play at both blue-lines, and carrying the puck up more, instead of playing more passive and patient. It has been awesome to watch at even-strength, and even if the Wings don't necessarily have the goals to show for their work, they certainly have created chances, power play opportunities, and limited the opposition from properly setting up their game plan.

So WHY is it that our team is still holding onto this "patience, and precision-passing and higher hockey IQ" identity on the powerplay? I could understand it for a line that had Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Franzen, because they can still play that way. But Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Helm (if he gets another crack at the PP), Smith (if he ever gets a crack at the PP), Dekeyser. These kids are about speed. Let's play to their strength and attack the neutral zone on the power play with speed and numbers. If we have to chip the puck deep, lets continue to swarm the play and choke off the opposition. They haven't been doing that. They've been playing the patient game that isn't best suited for their skill-set. And I think if the coaching staff gave them the green-light, we would see more zones established, more scoring chances, and more goals on the power play, at least from their line. I'm willing to keep the old identity for the first power play line now that Datsyuk is back in the mold, but if line one is a change-up, line two needs to be a fastball.

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There might be more skill in theory (Debatable) but outside of Dats, Hank, and now Nyquist there is no consistant NHL scoring from the young kids right now. The kid line is at best mediocre NHL scorers right now. No true PP qn or big shot hurts the most.

Sure, the kids are playing mediocre right now, but that doesn't mean they're not skilled. Guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Smith, and to a lesser extent Dekeyser were drafted (or signed) because of their speed and skill with the puck. They certainly weren't brought on board to be bangers and grinders.

The fact that they're not creating offense is a symptom, not a cause.

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Granato ran Pittsburgh's powerplay last year and they were tied for first with Washington with 23.4%. Maybe he should coach both the PP and PK and have whoever's running the PP now go fetch him coffee.

Edited by Supface

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I'll echo the sentiments that zone entries are an issue and add that while the drop pass technique is great if you're not moving the other teams defense it's not going to work. The team on the PK is lining up on the blue line and holding their ground. They need to come in with more speed and force the PKers to have to adjust. I was watching it on a small laptop screen so correct me if I'm wrong, but they seemed to just be floating into the zone and Montreal would collapse on the puck.

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Guest Praying Mantha

Granato ran Pittsburgh's powerplay last year and they were tied for first with Washington with 23.4%. Maybe he should coach both the PP and PK and have whoever's running the PP now go fetch him coffee.

Both teams have/had a legit sniper (Neal, Ovi), a legit quarterback (Letang, Green), and a legit playmaker (Crosby, Backman). We have the playmaker (Datsyuk) and qb (Kronwall), but we are sorely missing a sniper. Why KH hasn't traded for Semin yet is beyond me. He's the puzzle piece we need in so many ways.

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I would like to add to this as well. I'm sure everyone noticed it but how many crosschecks,spears and elbows was that idiot P.K going to get away with before someone jacks him up? If you noticed when we were finishing our checks and really getting our hands dirty is when we were taking it to the Diving Canadians but when we stopped that's when the Diving Canadians came back. We can't score like we would like right now so we have to win the battles else where but when we even lose those there is no hope.

I understand no one wants a goon on the team but damn we need some sandpaper or at least someone to step up and punch players like PK in the mouth. How many helmets did you guys see on the ice last night? Yeah more then I have ever seen hit the ice in a game.

If some enforcer lays him out he would have earned his pay check with just one action. Give the rats and divers are reason to lay on the ice. Also if they want to stand in front of the net, make them pay a huge price for it.

Matt Martin would have been a nice signing, adds sandpaper and can play hockey. This defense needs more grit that idiot deserves a lesson and one he won't forget when the habs are playing the Wings again. Love seeing Thornton's water bottle incident again good stuff!

Julien has been right with calling them out the habs are a bunch of diving *******, tough behind the refs and safe for Price, Prust and maybe Markov full of rats.

Edited by frankgrimes

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If some enforcer lays him out he would have earned his pay check with just one action. Give the rats and divers are reason to lay on the ice. Also if they want to stand in front of the net, make them pay a huge price for it. Matt Martin would have been a nice signing, adds sandpaper and can play hockey. This defense needs more grit that idiot deserves a lesson and one he won't forget when the habs are playing the Wings again. Love seeing Thornton's water bottle incident again good stuff! Julien has been right with calling them out the habs are a bunch of diving *******, tough behind the refs and safe for Price, Prust and maybe Markov full of rats.

Price has a fairly extensive history of diving as well. And as evidenced last night, he's the king at initiating contact and getting calls. Anyone have a gif of the Paccioretty dive that got called? Some habs fans on HF were calling that dive against him "ridiculous".

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Good teams fight through adversity and win. Bad teams blame losses on adversity. That really is the difference in a game, season, and/or the playoffs. The Wings have played remarkable hockey so far this year. Howard is off to a great start. The kids are playing well, despite not scoring a lot. I am very eager to see how this team does as the kids get older. We knew that we are going to have a period of inconsistency.

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Everyone that is crying that we didn't have enough offense is stupid. Yes, two goals won't win you MOST games but SOMETIMES it's enough to win a game. This is hockey, you guys know that it's not always going to be high scoring. We scored two goals yesterday in a very TIGHT game. You've never seen a hockey game end 1-0 or 2-0? It happens!! Yes of course we could have took advantage of the Power Play but we didn't. Bottom line is we scored more than they did and we should have won. You're not going to win many games when goals are taken away from you. Absolute bull call and took away a highlight goal away from one of the best players in the game. I seriously want to crush Montreal so bad the next time we play them.

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Everyone that is crying that we didn't have enough offense is stupid. Yes, two goals won't win you MOST games but SOMETIMES it's enough to win a game. This is hockey, you guys know that it's not always going to be high scoring. We scored two goals yesterday in a very TIGHT game. You've never seen a hockey game end 1-0 or 2-0? It happens!! Yes of course we could have took advantage of the Power Play but we didn't. Bottom line is we scored more than they did and we should have won. You're not going to win many games when goals are taken away from you. Absolute bull call and took away a highlight goal away from one of the best players in the game. I seriously want to crush Montreal so bad the next time we play them.

You're right. We are stupid. I've changed my tune; from now on I'll form my impressions based on what should have happened.

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