kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Agreed. But you have to concede that McKenzie is more than just "some jackass in the rumour mill". Because it's McKenzie, he very well may have been on to something. It makes sense, post-trade, for both the Wings and Jarnkrok to deny the rumours. I'm not saying that this is what happened. And I really don't care ultimately. But it could have been true. Again, that's how rumors are perpetuated. Because they can't be proven wrong with certainty. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence blah blah blah. That all just obscures the fact that not a single credible piece of evidence (testimonial or otherwise) has been given to suggest this information is true. It's all based on something "heard from a source". Well, I heard otherwise from Jarnkrok and Ryan Martin. That seems a little more credible to me. If McKenzie wants to be a reporter then he needs to confirm a story before reporting it. If he wants to report things he hears without sourcing them, then he's a jackass who's adding to the rumor mill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilmrt 636 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Mantha #1? Hampus Melen says hi How the hell is our boy Hampus Melen doing anyhow? 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlashyG 1,799 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) And just because some jackass in the rumor mill said something doesn't make it legit either. I'm basing my information on the guy himself and Wings management. While not 100% it's better than a completely unsubstantiated rumor. Is your point that there's no way of knowing 100%? If so, I agree. If your point is that because the Wings and Jarnkrok COULD be lying that there's something to the rumor, then I disagree. Isn't that how all rumors catch on? The fact that they can't be proven wrong doesn't mean that they're even remotely right. I'll take my information from the source. You take it from wherever you want. Link to Swedish article Calle Järnkrok, 22, was thinking of giving up and moving home to Brynäs. Yes, of course I thought about it for a while. It was heavy and I did not like this game. It was a very big change in the AHL and it is very go-ahead, which is not suited me particularly well - Calle Jarnkrok He does go on to say that it would be hard to give up after only one season, and that he still wanted to play in the NHL. I think there is truth to both sides of the argument. Calle clearly did have thoughts about going home, but I think the seriousness of those thoughts were blown out of proportion by fans and media trying to justify the trade. On the other hand I think a lot of the denials of having those thoughts was Calle trying to calm the fears of Predators fans, Media and management about his previously documented thoughts about going back home. Edited November 4, 2014 by FlashyG 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 How the hell is our boy Hampus Melen doing anyhow? 1 goal, 9 points in 13 games. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86073 1 evilmrt reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Link to Swedish article Calle Järnkrok, 22, was thinking of giving up and moving home to Brynäs. He does go on to say that it would be hard to give up after only one season, and that he still wanted to play in the NHL. I think there is truth to both sides of the argument. Calle clearly did have thoughts about going home, but I think the seriousness of those thoughts were blown out of proportion by fans and media trying to justify the trade. On the other hand I think a lot of the denials of having those thoughts was Calle trying to calm the fears of Predators fans, Media and management about his previously documented thoughts about going back home. Left out the second half of that quote... "but at the same time would it be hard to give up here and move back home. All the players want to play in the NHL, and to throw away this chance after just one season felt too weird". Kinda paints a different picture doesn't it? Still doesn't validate the "he was going to leave for Sweden" rumor. All he seems to have said is that the transition was tough and he thought about it before deciding that he would be "throwing away" a chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlashyG 1,799 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Left out the second half of that quote... "but at the same time would it be hard to give up here and move back home. All the players want to play in the NHL, and to throw away this chance after just one season felt too weird". Kinda paints a different picture doesn't it? Still doesn't validate the "he was going to leave for Sweden" rumor. All he seems to have said is that the transition was tough and he thought about it before deciding that he would be "throwing away" a chance. Actually that was a completely separate quote not a continuation of the first and I didn't leave it out, I just paraphrased it instead of giving it quote tags and it immediately followed the first quote in my post. You said the rumor was unsubstantiated, I provided you with a quote from the player himself saying that he had thoughts about going home. I agree that the likelihood of that was remote, but clearly the rumors weren't completely unsubstantiated, at some point he did think about leaving the AHL for Sweden and likely told someone that leaked the info to Bob Mackenzie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 1 goal, 9 points in 13 games. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86073 SUPERSTAR 2 evilmrt and Euro_Twins reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Was he really our number one prospect? Maybe our #1 C prospect? Our "#1C prospect behind Sheahan" Whatever it is... ...and no offense to you krsmith, but I hate when the title "#1 prospect" is thrown around about any player because that is certainly a debatable title. I believe mantha was our number one prospect At the time of the trade Jarnkrok was most certainly not anywhere near the #1 prospect in the system by most fans, or by any reputable publications. He was well behind Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, Mrazek. Jurco, and Sheahan. He was in a group along with Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko etc. He was closer to 10th than 1st, especially considering the Wings brass felt Glendening was more ready to play in the NHL over him. As far as the rumors about him wanting to go home, he did eventually admit that he had considered returning to Sweden when he realized his chances of cracking the Wings line-up any time soon were remote. I don't think any sort of move was imminent though and I don't think he had vocalized those wishes so they likely had little to no impact on the Wings decision to trade him. I think he was dealt because he wasn't going to be able to crack the roster for years and they had a pressing need for a center right then, having lost their top 5 centers to injuries at the time. According to RedWingsCentral which WAS a great source of information on our prospects, he was ranked #1 for four straight rankings until he slipped to #4 in his last one. But yes, he was for a year or so, considered our best prospect. 2 e_prime and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Actually that was a completely separate quote not a continuation of the first and I didn't leave it out, I just paraphrased it instead of giving it quote tags and it immediately followed the first quote in my post. You said the rumor was unsubstantiated, I provided you with a quote from the player himself saying that he had thoughts about going home. I agree that the likelihood of that was remote, but clearly the rumors weren't completely unsubstantiated, at some point he did think about leaving the AHL for Sweden and likely told someone that leaked the info to Bob Mackenzie. McKenzie actually claimed on trade deadline day that Jarnkrok "may" have already signed a deal in the Swedish Elite League with the intent of returning. That's a little more significant than saying he had thought about going home in the past. Your quote lends credence to the fact that Jarnkrok had thought about it before. It does not, in any way, back up the kinds of comments that McKenzie and others (George Malik said he "threatened" to go back) were making. That was rumor mongering plain and simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Was anyone else as disappointed as me when RedWingsCentral decided to stop writing articles?... I looked forward to them every week... 4 evilmrt, kipwinger, TheXym and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Was anyone else as disappointed as me when RedWingsCentral decided to stop writing articles?... I looked forward to them every week... I used to go there all the time and check out there prospect reporting. It was clearly the best source of prospect news. Especially overseas prospect news. Bar none. 2 Wingsfan72 and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Absolutely. Now all I go by is HockeysFuture, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan... Anyone know why they stopped or if they started up any new sites or what happened there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Absolutely. Now all I go by is HockeysFuture, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan... Anyone know why they stopped or if they started up any new sites or what happened there... Well I do know Matthew Wuest, who created RWC, also created CapGeek. So I'm guessing he took a step back with RWC and a step forward with Capgeek as that site would have a lot of maintenance. 2 krsmith17 and TheXym reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Absolutely. Now all I go by is HockeysFuture, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan... Anyone know why they stopped or if they started up any new sites or what happened there... Malik penned something on it when they shut down but I'm having a hard time finding his blurb. There might not even be any quality info in it, but I just remember him writing something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 4, 2014 Absolutely. Now all I go by is HockeysFuture, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan... Anyone know why they stopped or if they started up any new sites or what happened there... Well I do know Matthew Wuest, who created RWC, also created CapGeek. So I'm guessing he took a step back with RWC and a step forward with Capgeek as that site would have a lot of maintenance. Matt's been running the site for a long time now. I think it just got to the point he needed to cut some stuff and rwc got the Axe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Thanks! I guess that's understandable but it really is a shame that RedWingsCentral had to get cut. I watch a lot of Grand Rapids hockey and as many junior games of our prospects that I can but relied on them for all my information and updates on all of our prospects, especially the ones playing in Europe. Just curious, what do people that used to use RWC use for their information now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Called jarnkrok needs more time in the minors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 KuklasKorner does occasional updates on the European prospects which is nice because I wouldn't see them otherwise as they're from sources I don't follow. Doesn't have the same depth and analysis that RWC had though and they really just cut and paste other people's work. The official Griffins site does some brief write-ups as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Called jarnkrok needs more time in the minors. Exactly, he needs some time in the minors and bulk up a lot. Then bring him back up andhe will be their future second line center. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Thanks! I guess that's understandable but it really is a shame that RedWingsCentral had to get cut. I watch a lot of Grand Rapids hockey and as many junior games of our prospects that I can but relied on them for all my information and updates on all of our prospects, especially the ones playing in Europe. Just curious, what do people that used to use RWC use for their information now? You. 1 wings4thecup06 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holmstrom96 347 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Jarnkrok and Jalad at Tanagra. 2 Dave and joesuffP reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoalieManPat 1,007 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Nashville can still gain something from the deal if he develops more. Detroit has nothing from the deal. Trade Win: Nashville. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Again, just because the playoff streak means nothing to some people, doesn't make it meaningless. It's a huge deal to ownership, management, coaching staff, players, and most fans... 1 DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Nashville can still gain something from the deal if he develops more. Detroit has nothing from the deal. Trade Win: Nashville. It's not even a discussion Wings have nothing to show for it and Nashville - in the worst case - has a future 3 line center. Poile robbed Holland with that trade and it wasn't even close nor is it now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolgar 62 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Or he could be yet another prospect who didn't live up to his potential. For me it's strange why people still discussing this trade. Anyone believes Jarnkrok could be in the roster this season should this trade not be made? Anyone believes the Wings would make it to the playoffs with Andersson as 1C? We got veteran center whom we needed much for a prospect who may or may not be good. As someone already have mentioned, some people were mad when we traded Matthias for Bert, raging about the loss of future top notch power forward. Need I to bring up Matthias success after that trade? Prospects are always hit or miss, anyone remembres Angelo Esposito, yet another "The Next One"? Hell, even we had a guy that everyone thought would be top line forward - Grigorenko, but he barely played in the US (I will not start discussion about the reasons of this, he could overcome his injuries and became one of the top forwards in the KHL). So until Calle plays at least one full season in the NHL, I will not say that we were f..d up on that trade. Also, it's strange that people are ready to give excuses to Jarnkrok, but were willing to kick Smith out of the team, when he was in approximately same situation 4 krsmith17, derblaueClaus, wings4thecup06 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
