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MabusIncarnate

11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

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I wonder if there wouldn't be extra incentive for guys to work on shootout moves if you had three or four dedicated shooters and those guys knew that if the game went to a shootout that part of their "role" was to score. No different than a PKer, grinder, etc.

I know this is an overly simple example, but look at Oshie in St. Louis. That guy knows that no matter what, if his team goes to a shootout, he's going to shoot every single time. As a result, I'd be really surprised to learn that he doesn't work on that just like he works on other parts of his game.

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Here's a crazy idea. What if Datsyuk led a clinic teaching everybody else how to dangle and deke on a shootout? Probably way better than having Granato or Babcock do it.

A lot of what Datsyuk does you just can't teach. They definitely should be working on it though.

It's hard to tell Babcock's true feelings in interviews because it's often more about whatever is really irking him after a loss, or how he feels about the reporter's question. But if he truly is that dismissive about the shootout in his actual coaching, then he definitely needs to get over it and focus more on it because it is costing his team points. Yes they should've won it in OT but they didn't, and had another chance at the extra point.

Ultimately I don't know how much you can do with so little offensive talent in that regard, but there's really nowhere to go but up. I was hoping some of these younger guys would have crazy shootout skills because they grew up with it.

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Good: Since the kids came to play there is no quit in this team. There was a time that down 3-1 halfway though, you mind well pack it in and look to the next game.

Bad: I can't understand when you score 3 goals in the same area over the glove... One would think you might try that once in the shootout? Nope lets try 3 times between the legs.

Triple-facepalm.jpg

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A lot of what Datsyuk does you just can't teach. They definitely should be working on it though.

It's hard to tell Babcock's true feelings in interviews because it's often more about whatever is really irking him after a loss, or how he feels about the reporter's question. But if he truly is that dismissive about the shootout in his actual coaching, then he definitely needs to get over it and focus more on it because it is costing his team points. Yes they should've won it in OT but they didn't, and had another chance at the extra point.

Ultimately I don't know how much you can do with so little offensive talent in that regard, but there's really nowhere to go but up. I was hoping some of these younger guys would have crazy shootout skills because they grew up with it.

A couple of them did at lower levels. Both Tatar and Jurco were pretty awesome in shootouts. I don't know if NHL goalies are just that much better (which is at least partially true) or they don't emphasize it enough as a team (which seems to be the case as well). But even our good shooters have gone cold, which makes me think they just never spend time on it. Prior to last year Datsyuk and Bert were lights out in the shootout, and each fell off a cliff last season.

Edited by kipwinger

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Kip, fair enough. I get as frustrated with Babcock as anyone, but he is finally addressing the need to get better in the shootout, and that's what matters. ;)

Leftwinger, how about Howard is practicing against players that are horrible in the shootout, they probably have a big problem scoring and he gets a false sense of being good in the shootouts...

Howard hasn't been good in the shootout by any stretch, but the shooters have been just as bad... It's a team problem, not a Howard problem. But hey, there's a chance to bash Howard in the spectacular start to the season he's having, so why not, right?...

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The God thing is it appears we're a fine line from being a great team. All these losses were close if this teams gets a little better offensively and defensively then we turn half those into wins at least. I just can't see a trade being made that makes sense for both teams so early in the season

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I wonder if there wouldn't be extra incentive for guys to work on shootout moves if you had three or four dedicated shooters and those guys knew that if the game went to a shootout that part of their "role" was to score. No different than a PKer, grinder, etc.

I know this is an overly simple example, but look at Oshie in St. Louis. That guy knows that no matter what, if his team goes to a shootout, he's going to shoot every single time. As a result, I'd be really surprised to learn that he doesn't work on that just like he works on other parts of his game.

Isn't "our guy" Datsyuk? Problem being... he's injured.

There's gotta be more than one guy with that's shouldered with the responsibility.

I too do not understand how this isn't a priority for a team that goes to OT with the regularity that we do.

Granted, they may have been focusing on getting the power-play going which is certainly good and as seen by last night's game... getting us to some OT games which again, is good... and while the majority of the squad left it all out there in last night's OT... also good... when all is said and done, seemingly settling for a single point by dropping the second one in a shootout because NO ONE ON THE TEAM IS TASKED WITH SCORING IN THE SHOOT OUT is just plain bad.

EDIT: spelling.

Edited by e_prime

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Isn't "our guy" Datsyuk? Problem being... he's injured.

There's gotta be more than one guy with that's shouldered with the responsibility.

I too do not understand how this isn't a priority for a team that goes to OT with the regularity that we do.

Granted, they may have been focusing on getting the power-play going which is certainly good and as seen by last night's game... getting us to some OT games which again, is good... and while the majority of the squad left it all out there in last night's OT... also good... when all is said and done, seemingly settling for a single point by dropping the second one in a shootout because NO ONE ON THE TEAM IS TASKED WITH SCORING IN THE SHOOT OUT is just plain bad.

EDIT: spelling.

Yeah, that's the thing I don't get. I mean, the coaching staff must have a strategy for the shootout, but if they do I simple can't figure out what it is. Tatar didn't shoot in the first two shootouts despite leading the team in shootout goals a year ago, but he was back in last night. Nestrasil shot early in the season (presumably based on some reason), and last night Helm shot (again, hopefully for a specific reason). The only consistency has been Nyquist.

I haven't seen any of these guys doing their thing in practice, so I don't really know. But I think I'd identify the two or three guys with the best dekes (probably Dats, Nyquist, and Tatar but who knows, maybe it's Jurco, Nestrasil, or Helm) and those would be my three guys. But I'd probably also have one or two "situational" type guys who can do something different. For instance, last night it was obvious that Bishop was vulnerable glove side high. While I normally wouldn't let Franzen shoot in the shootout (because he can't deke) he might have been a good choice as a "situational" guy because he's got a sneaky fast wrister that he can place glove side high with accuracy.

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Here's a crazy idea. What if Datsyuk led a clinic teaching everybody else how to dangle and deke on a shootout? Probably way better than having Granato or Babcock do it.

First Datsyuk has to get back to scoring on shootouts too. His simple backhand forehand shot is generally unstoppable, assuming he hits the net, because of how convincing his body language is and how quick the transfer is. He seems to have gotten away from doing simple things like this though and is electing to shoot more (or is just missing the net entirely). Once Datsyuk is back to form though I think he could definitely help teach some of the others. No, no one will be as fluid; but he can give pointers on how he dips his shoulder or other things like that to sell his deke. Really a simple backhand to forehand or vice versa is all it takes, look at Callahan's goal last night. Nyquist has the hands to do something like that but he seems stuck on his one move. Tatar just looks too stiff out there, I'm tempted to say a lot of our young guys issues is a nerves thing. If they relaxed I bet they're capable of pulling really nice moves.

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Yeah, that's the thing I don't get. I mean, the coaching staff must have a strategy for the shootout, but if they do I simple can't figure out what it is. Tatar didn't shoot in the first two shootouts despite leading the team in shootout goals a year ago, but he was back in last night. Nestrasil shot early in the season (presumably based on some reason), and last night Helm shot (again, hopefully for a specific reason). The only consistency has been Nyquist.

I haven't seen any of these guys doing their thing in practice, so I don't really know. But I think I'd identify the two or three guys with the best dekes (probably Dats, Nyquist, and Tatar but who knows, maybe it's Jurco, Nestrasil, or Helm) and those would be my three guys. But I'd probably also have one or two "situational" type guys who can do something different. For instance, last night it was obvious that Bishop was vulnerable glove side high. While I normally wouldn't let Franzen shoot in the shootout (because he can't deke) he might have been a good choice as a "situational" guy because he's got a sneaky fast wrister that he can place glove side high with accuracy.

Seems like a pretty simple and solid strategy to me.

Have your three top shooters. (Dats, Nyquist, Tatar)

Have your later round guys. (Jurco, Helm, Nestrasil, Z, Franzen)

Scout the goaltenders. Juggle the shootout lineup based on the situation.

Practice the shootout.

Practice the shootout.

Practice the shootout.

Hell, make the last 15 minutes of every practice be shootout practice, until they get it right.

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Dude, the comment about Granato running practice and therefore focusing on the shootout was a joke.

I'm actually not "bashing" Babs on this one. I feel like it's pretty straight forward. His team is losing valuable points. He needs to fix it. It's his responsibility. I find it troubling that the guy can say "Obviously, that's something I don't spend a whole lot of time on" about a part of the game that's costing him points. I'm not really sure how I'm bashing him by expecting him to address something that was a HUGE problem a year ago before it was Brewer's job.

I think you're misunderstanding Babcock's "Obviously, that's something I don't spend a whole lot of time on." I took it is a joke to the press; as in "we've been so bad at the shootout, i don't want to talk about it."

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I think you're misunderstanding Babcock's "Obviously, that's something I don't spend a whole lot of time on." I took it is a joke to the press; as in "we've been so bad at the shootout, i don't want to talk about it."

"That joke isn't funny anymore..."

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Here's a crazy idea. What if Datsyuk led a clinic teaching everybody else how to dangle and deke on a shootout? Probably way better than having Granato or Babcock do it.

Not a crazy idea I like it.... or bring in a specialist, maybe Bertuzzi? :ninja:

All kidding aside, I an sure there is a younger coaches that has seen this from the ground up in the juniors. Teach the older dogs some new tricks.

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Kip, fair enough. I get as frustrated with Babcock as anyone, but he is finally addressing the need to get better in the shootout, and that's what matters. ;)

Leftwinger, how about Howard is practicing against players that are horrible in the shootout, they probably have a big problem scoring and he gets a false sense of being good in the shootouts...

Howard hasn't been good in the shootout by any stretch, but the shooters have been just as bad... It's a team problem, not a Howard problem. But hey, there's a chance to bash Howard in the spectacular start to the season he's having, so why not, right?...

absolutely...the shooters are making bad decisions, but when those shots go in at practice, then they think its all good.

Spectacular start, hardly. He has played well, and I have acknowledged that before. But he does need to get better a shootouts. If you don't pose a challenge to your teammates at practice, how can they get better? And vice versa...

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Not a crazy idea I like it.... or bring in a specialist, maybe Bertuzzi? :ninja:

All kidding aside, I an sure there is a younger coaches that has seen this from the ground up in the juniors. Teach the older dogs some new tricks.

This team needs more TUZZZZZZI

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Regarding the SO and Babcock's comment:

Let Howard be the first to shoot and the back-up goalie be second. Let them skate with full goalie gear. They cannot be any worse than the "specialists" on the team, and, if that doesn't embarrass the rest, then just concede the point at the end of OT and move on to the next game.

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