• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
nyqvististhefuture

Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

In response to that first link: Mr Murray, maybe the reason it's so slow in trade land is because GMs like you are asking for the moon for a guy like Chris Stewart

In reponse to that second link: d'uh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny...

Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny...

Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

What if I get by a bus tmrw? Take the payout man!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny...

Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

The smart move is somewhere in the middle though right? I mean, I get that it's good to be patient and build a contender. But at some point, you've got to decide now's the time, and try to win. Always looking toward the future obscures the fact that (pardon this goofy description) the present was the future at one point. What's all this saving, and developing, and patience working toward if not to make a Cup run? And as far as I know, no team (in the modern era) has done that with 100% homegrown pieces. Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston...all had significant help from outside. If you're not willing to move pieces for guys like Yandle, or O'Reilly, or Spezza, or Kesler, etc. when they become available, exactly what are you willing to move them for? And if the answer is "nothing", you're in trouble. Because, as I said, nobody has ever managed to win that way yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd give Smith and Marchenko for Yandle...well, I'd HATE to give up on Smith and especially Marchenko, but if we are talking getting Yandle and not giving up an untouchable. No way to Pulk. I would add AA or Frk into a package. Think there is any interest in Callahan or Ferraro out there? Seems that they aren't going to make it to the bigs here in Detroit...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd give Smith and Marchenko for Yandle...well, I'd HATE to give up on Smith and especially Marchenko, but if we are talking getting Yandle and not giving up an untouchable. No way to Pulk. I would add AA or Frk into a package. Think there is any interest in Callahan or Ferraro out there? Seems that they aren't going to make it to the bigs here in Detroit...

Where do you get your information about the value of our prospects from? I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I really want to know. Because Frk and AA aren't even close to having the same value in a package. Athanasiou is probably VERY close to untouchable. He's the best center prospect we've got, and prior to his injury was beginning to maul AHL competitions after only 15 games as a pro. By game 25 (his injury) he was eating teams up. Frk...on the other hand, can't even stay in the lineup.

Sometimes I think you add guys to packages for no other reason than you're not familiar with them. Then, once you are, you'd never trade them in a million years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd give Smith and Marchenko for Yandle...well, I'd HATE to give up on Smith and especially Marchenko, but if we are talking getting Yandle and not giving up an untouchable. No way to Pulk. I would add AA or Frk into a package. Think there is any interest in Callahan or Ferraro out there? Seems that they aren't going to make it to the bigs here in Detroit...

Seeing as they both cleared waivers earlier this year and any team could have had them for free, I think the answer to your question is self evident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I completely get what you're saying, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I think by next years trade deadline we will be a serious threat. That is when I would look at making a trade to put us over the top, if that's the route every contender needs to go, although I'm not so sure about that...

I also get that no team has ever done anything with a purely home grown team, but as it sits right now, we have to be the closest team to that. I honestly do believe we can win the Cup with the roster we have now, shedding a little bit of dead weight, infusing a little more of the youth, and maybe a free agent signing. I don't think trading is the only option to get us to the top.

I think Ken Holland is going to do what he can to keep the guys he drafted and turn this team into a contender, so we'll have to see how it plays out...

Edited by krsmith17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I completely get what you're saying, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I think by next years trade deadline we will be a serious threat. That is when I would look at making a trade to put us over the top, if that's the route every contender needs to go, although I'm not so sure about that...

I also get that no team has ever done anything with a purely home grown team, but as it sits right now, we have to be the closest team to that. I honestly do believe we can win the Cup with the roster we have now, shedding a little bit of dead weight, infusing a little more of the youth, and maybe a free agent signing. I don't think trading is the only option to get us to the top.

I think Ken Holland is going to do what he can to keep the guys he drafted and turn this team into a contender, so we'll have to see how it plays out...

I agree, but what I see is this team needing to win a playoff round or two this year with the kids, so that it makes them even hungrier. Sort of like what happened in 06/07. Got close, realised what was needed, and dug deep the following year and got the job done. After last years playoffs though, I think Tatar and Nyquist will want to prove themselves a little more come April.

I do see KH attempting to upgrade the backend at some point before the deadline, but whether anything comes to fruition or not is another question.

If it were me, I'd probably find a way to get something for Kindl and keep Ouellet in the lineup full time. Obviously, it depends who's available and what the cost is.

No point selling the farm for one piece when that piece won't put us over the top just yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I do a lot of research on our prospects, what I was saying was I would offer AA or Frk up in some sort of package way before I'd offer Pulk up. I know AA is leaps better than Frk, Frk goes back and forth from Toledo to GR and cannot remain consistent. I am all for NOT losing any of our prospects, but if a trade absolytely needed to be made, I was simply saying no to trading Pulk, but would be open to AA or Frk. I prefer to keep them all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I do a lot of research on our prospects, what I was saying was I would offer AA or Frk up in some sort of package way before I'd offer Pulk up. I know AA is leaps better than Frk, Frk goes back and forth from Toledo to GR and cannot remain consistent. I am all for NOT losing any of our prospects, but if a trade absolytely needed to be made, I was simply saying no to trading Pulk, but would be open to AA or Frk. I prefer to keep them all.

Aa has a higher ceiling IMO.

Plus he's relatively big, fast, has awesome hands, and plays c.

I would trade pulks way before aa, we have enough wingers going forward, we still need a few centers to pan out, and he has all the tools to be top six.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, Athanasiou is the real deal. As high as I am on Pulkkinen and how much I think his shot is needed on this team, there's no way I trade Athanasiou over Pulkkinen...


Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think Frk is going to be a bust as well, but you never know. I think just about everyone had Tvrdon pegged as a bust as recently as a couple months ago, but he came out of nowhere and is really starting to impress down in Grand Rapids. Not only is he putting up points but he looks really good out there. He's big and surprisingly a really good skater for such a big body. I'm still doubtful he has a future with the Wings, but maybe with another organization... Like Tvrdon though, I doubt Frk has any future with this organization. It's up to him to turn his game around and maybe have an outside chance in playing in the NHL on another team some day...

Edited by krsmith17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I do a lot of research on our prospects, what I was saying was I would offer AA or Frk up in some sort of package way before I'd offer Pulk up. I know AA is leaps better than Frk, Frk goes back and forth from Toledo to GR and cannot remain consistent. I am all for NOT losing any of our prospects, but if a trade absolytely needed to be made, I was simply saying no to trading Pulk, but would be open to AA or Frk. I prefer to keep them all.

That's a little bit like saying, "I don't want to offer up Nyquist in a trade, so I'd rather offer up Tatar or Andersson". They're not comparable, and depending on which you offer, it dramatically changes the make up of the package you're offering and the return you expect to get. That's why I think you're missing the mark here. Because you're saying that in an effort to avoid losing our best prospect, you'd rather lose a really good prospect...or a really bad prospect. I don't get why you've made those your options?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny...

Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

Except with hockey prospects the money may or may not double on any given day. Take that option and you might end up with $50k instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I offered you $1,000,000 today OR $0.01 today, doubling each day for 30 days... Which would you take?... 95% of LGWers take the million up front, I'm just glad Holland would take the penny...

Holland wouldn't make any combination of a deal there. Sure, making that deal makes us better today, but we take a huge hit in the future...

Holland would absolutely consider Pulkkinen/Jurco + Smith/Ouellet/Marchenko/Sproul + 1st/2nd for Yandle. IMHO, that'd be a solid deal for both sides. We can afford to move a young winger, and the odds are against any of Smith, Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul ever becoming as valuable as Yandle is right now and will be for the next four or five years (assuming he re-signs with the Wings, which is, admittedly, not a given). Yandle flat-out doesn't get injured (he's an iron man) and he's an extremely good skater; he's going to be effective for years to come. We're talking about one of the premier scoring defensemen. He has exceedingly few peers. Do we need to hang on to all of Smith, Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul, even when we know we're not going to have enough room for all of them on our blue line? If the answer to that is yes, why are we holding on to them? Because we're hoping one of them might turn into a Keith Yandle, right? So...why not get the real thing, right now, while we still have a few years left with Datsyuk?

As for the draft pick - we should be looking to win the Cup within the next three years. A late first-round pick isn't going to be an impact player for the Wings for another five years (if at all). By that time, Datsyuk will be gone and Zetterberg will be a third-liner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Concession: Yandle might bolt next summer (not this coming summer, the summer after that) and sign with, say, the Bruins. And we'd feel pretty stupid. But, if we're not moving an untouchable (Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Mantha, Larkin), I think it's worth the risk.

At the end of the day, if you're looking like a real postseason threat, then the Cup should be pretty much all that matters to you. The window is open, but it's also closing; we're a damn good team, but we have only a few runs left with a dominant Datsyuk, who remains our best player. We should make the most of these precious few remaining opportunities. My greatest fear is we go into the playoffs this season thinking we're as good as any Eastern team - and then we get our asses handed to us in the first round by Tampa or Montreal or Boston or New York (either one) or even Washington or Florida. And then we say, "Y'know what? We were stupid to think we could win the Cup without adding, at the very least, a top-three offensive defenseman. Oh well, at least we kept the streak alive. Let's see if we can land a big name in free agency."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except with hockey prospects the money may or may not double on any given day. Take that option and you might end up with $50k instead.

Well said. The nice thing about instant gratification - versus what I guess I'll call faithful patience - is that there's an element of certainty. $1,000,000 is $1,000,000, you can have it now, simple. The penny? There's absolutely no guarantee it's ever going to climb anywhere close to $1,000,000. In fact, the odds are very much against that happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think realistically were gonna end up going for a low cost veteran d like josh gorges

Also won't happen since we have a ton of depth upfront but if he's getting traded and won't cost a lot I'd go for chris neil , not as young anymore but he's the type of guy we'd need in the playoffs and hopefully would help give us a run like dallas drake did in 08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“A lot of the teams are finishing up their scouting meetings. I understand that Buffalo has been scouting Grand Rapids, which is Detroit’s American Hockey League team, quite a bit. So who knows what’s going on there. But a few people who have been through and around Grand Rapids have been saying they’ve seen a lot of Buffalo guys there. In the past, the Sabres and Red Wings have kind of been linked on talks, so you never know what that’s about.”

-Elliotte Friedman on Calgary’s Sportsnet 960

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is, where most fans and even a lot of GM's look at what will benefit the team this season, Ken Holland is looking at this season, as well as 5+ years from now. Sure, we win that trade today, but I think in the long run we lose the trade. I'm not okay with losing a trade unless it guarantees us a Stanley Cup. If the addition of Yandle were to guaranteed us a Cup this season, I think we risk losing these guys, but of course nothing is guaranteed. I don't think Yandle is the guy that pushes us over the top, therefore I don't believe we should give up any major pieces to get him here. Pulkkinen, Jurco and Sproul are all going to be huge players for us in the future, the latter, I believe will be as good as Yandle in a few years. I hate trading away high-end prospects, especially when their value to other teams is somewhat unknown, meaning all-time low. Hold on to these guys until they at least have a chance to make an impact in the league.

Teams and players are finally starting to take notice in what we're putting together here. I think we'll be a big time destination for UFA's this offseason, it could be a real possibility that we land a Cody Franson or Mike Green. I think Franson is a better all around player, as well as a better fit with our team right now, than Yandle. I'd wait until the offseason and swing for the fences in free agency, rather than over-pay in a trade. Imagine, next season adding a player like Franson and keeping all of our assets... We would be a dangerous, dangerous team moving forward. That is when I would make a trade to push us over the top.

If we are going to make a trade this season, I would expect it to be for a Petry, Mechalek, or Zidlicky type player that would come relatively cheap, not a Yandle or Myers type player which we would have to over-pay for...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this