Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[Richdg 267]

No doubt the RW's O is playing well. We are healthy and playing mostly at home vs. weak teams. Keep piling up the points while we can. We all know this will turn later on. We have a 7 out of 9 road game stretch coming up soon. can we play .500 or better on the road? If we do we will have a nice points total at the end of the year-baring major injuries of course.

[rick zombo 3,739]

No doubt the RW's O is playing well. We are healthy and playing mostly at home vs. weak teams. Keep piling up the points while we can. We all know this will turn later on. We have a 7 out of 9 road game stretch coming up soon. can we play .500 or better on the road? If we do we will have a nice points total at the end of the year-baring major injuries of course.

Just curious. When you say "we", are you really trying to speak for all Wings fans, or just the ones that "knew" that this team was a "borderline playoff team" before the season started?

[kipwinger 8,524]

Word around the rumor mill is that Mikkel Boedker is available from Phoenix. Helm plus what to get a deal done?

[LeftWinger 4,959]

Word around the rumor mill is that Mikkel Boedker is available from Phoenix. Helm plus what to get a deal done?

No thank you. I am not a Helm fan by far, but I think what Helm brings to the team is a bit more important than bringing in another 50 point guy. I'd rather package Helm (if I am trading him) for the top minute defender.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

sidenote: How the hell is it that Minnesota landed the Olsen twins and then Vanek and Pominville and STILL have more capspace than us and 23 other teams? Sheesh! I know they have more ELC's on their roster, but it just doesn't seem fair...

Actually it's completely fair. Besides I'm not sure what you're so jealous of. The Wild don't look great this year.

No doubt the RW's O is playing well. We are healthy and playing mostly at home vs. weak teams. Keep piling up the points while we can. We all know this will turn later on. We have a 7 out of 9 road game stretch coming up soon. can we play .500 or better on the road? If we do we will have a nice points total at the end of the year-baring major injuries of course.

Holy Hell...Cheer up dude!

[kipwinger 8,524]

No thank you. I am not a Helm fan by far, but I think what Helm brings to the team is a bit more important than bringing in another 50 point guy. I'd rather package Helm (if I am trading him) for the top minute defender.

Boedker plays essentially the same game as Helm, they're both gritty, defensively responsible, and SUPER fast. But Boedker is younger, bigger, more durable, and has more offensive upside. Helm provides center flexibility, and that's good considering Datsyuk and Zetterberg are hurt a lot. But as long as Helm's going to be a winger I don't see how this trade doesn't make the team better.

[rick zombo 3,739]

IMO, the problem with trading Helm is this: Holland will probably never get back, in assets, what Helm is worth to this team.

[LeftWinger 4,959]

Boedker plays essentially the same game as Helm, they're both gritty, defensively responsible, and SUPER fast. But Boedker is younger, bigger, more durable, and has more offensive upside. Helm provides center flexibility, and that's good considering Datsyuk and Zetterberg are hurt a lot. But as long as Helm's going to be a winger I don't see how this trade doesn't make the team better.

all that is true, but unless you are unloading a top 6 guy from our team (and I would gladly make that Franzen) he is essentially coming here to fill the role of Helm, in which he probably will not get the opportunity to score 50 points in the role Helm plays. That is why I think is would be better just to stick with Helm. But I get what you are saying, improve every spot bit by bit. If he has better hands than Helm then he is already a bit of an upgrade!

And you said it yourself, Helm plus what to get him. I think if we are trading Helm +, it should be for a top minute defender, or at least someone better than Kindl and fils more of our needs.

Actually it's completely fair. Besides I'm not sure what you're so jealous of. The Wild don't look great this year.

I am jealous because I, and most of us here, still believe Suter would be the differnce maker we need on D right now. Sure he isn't right handed, but not only would he be the top guy, we would have not had to re-sign Quincey (who isn't as bad this year) but he would have not been needed, we'd probably be watching XO play right now as well and Kibndl would have been even more expendable. Not sure they would have gone o hard after Danny D if they ad landed Suter, but according to all reports I read, adn yes, from my buddy Jeff would dated Danny's sister, he was in their sights for a long time.

Suter - Kronwall

Dekeyser - Smith

Ericsson - Ouellet

Lashoff

[kipwinger 8,524]

all that is true, but unless you are unloading a top 6 guy from our team (and I would gladly make that Franzen) he is essentially coming here to fill the role of Helm, in which he probably will not get the opportunity to score 50 points in the role Helm plays. That is why I think is would be better just to stick with Helm. But I get what you are saying, improve every spot bit by bit. If he has better hands than Helm then he is already a bit of an upgrade!

And you said it yourself, Helm plus what to get him. I think if we are trading Helm +, it should be for a top minute defender, or at least someone better than Kindl and fils more of our needs.

Helm is playing top six winger minutes. Boedker is a top six winger. He plays the same style as Helm. He's just better, younger, bigger, and more durable. Why wouldn't he produce more?

I could see your argument if I was suggesting we bring this kid on, reduce his ice time, and bury him on the third line. But he'd be coming onto this team and playing with Datsyuk and Tatar (as things are currently). That's an excellent recipe for offensive success.

Think about this

Nyquist-Z-Abby

Tatar-Dats-Boedker

Franzen-Sheahan-Weiss

Miller-Glendening-Jurco

The only thing Helm provides that Boedker doesn't is the ability to play center. And given how old and injury prone Dats and Z are, that's valuable. But I'm increasingly confident that Sheahan can play the second line center in case of injury, and obviously Weiss can do it as well if he keeps trending upward.

I'm not here to bash Helm. He's really come along after a slow start. But I like big, strong, fast, durable, defensively responsible players. I like them even better when they're all that and 24 years old. I'd always trade an extra center for a guy like that.

Edited December 8, 2014 by kipwinger

[rick zombo 3,739]

Helm is playing top six winger minutes. Boedker is a top six winger. He plays the same style as Helm. He's just better, younger, bigger, and more durable. Why wouldn't he produce more?

I could see your argument if I was suggesting we bring this kid on, reduce his ice time, and bury him on the third line. But he'd be coming onto this team and playing with Datsyuk and Tatar (as things are currently). That's an excellent recipe for offensive success.

Think about this

Nyquist-Z-Abby

Tatar-Dats-Boedker

Franzen-Sheahan-Weiss

Miller-Glendening-Jurco

The only thing Helm provides that Boedker doesn't is the ability to play center. And given how old and injury prone Dats and Z are, that's valuable. But I'm increasingly confident that Sheahan can play the second line center in case of injury, and obviously Weiss can do it as well if he keeps trending upward.

I'm not here to bash Helm. He's really come along after a slow start. But I like big, strong, fast, durable, defensively responsible players. I like them even better when they're all that and 24 years old. I'd always trade an extra center for a guy like that.

People love Helm. Fans love Helm. I love Helm.

But I still agree with your logic. I'll even go further and make the radical statement that Sheahan is, in fact, a 2nd line center already. Mickey Redmond and I agree that he's that good.

But besides all that, and besides all Helm vs Boedker rhetoric, one important detail is getting over looked. Phoenix would probably want waaaaaaay more than Helm in that trade.

[kipwinger 8,524]

People love Helm. Fans love Helm. I love Helm.

But I still agree with your logic. I'll even go further and make the radical statement that Sheahan is, in fact, a 2nd line center already. Mickey Redmond and I agree that he's that good.

But besides all that, and besides all Helm vs Boedker rhetoric, one important detail is getting over looked. Phoenix would probably want waaaaaaay more than Helm in that trade.

Which is why I originally asked "Helm plus what?". Also, I don't know that it would be WAY more. Boedker's a free agent at the end of the season and he's not a superstar. They'd definitely want more, but how much more is debatable. Helm plus a second would be a good starting proposal, and I'd possibly be willing to add one of the defense prospects (Jensen or Backman probably), if they really required it.

Edit: For context's sake, Tomas Vanek was traded a year ago at the deadline for a high prospect and a conditional second round pick. We'd be giving Arizona a roster player (and they want centers) and a second. It's in the ballpark.

Edited December 8, 2014 by kipwinger

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

sidenote: How the hell is it that Minnesota landed the Olsen twins and then Vanek and Pominville and STILL have more capspace than us and 23 other teams? Sheesh! I know they have more ELC's on their roster, but it just doesn't seem fair...

10 points back of us. So obviously it hasn't helped them out tremendously so far.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

If Arizona starts moving pieces, it'll be for long term assets. Not injury prone players who are UFAs after next season.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Which is why I originally asked "Helm plus what?". Also, I don't know that it would be WAY more. Boedker's a free agent at the end of the season and he's not a superstar. They'd definitely want more, but how much more is debatable. Helm plus a second would be a good starting proposal, and I'd possibly be willing to add one of the defense prospects (Jensen or Backman probably), if they really required it.

Edit: For context's sake, Tomas Vanek was traded a year ago at the deadline for a high prospect and a conditional second round pick. We'd be giving Arizona a roster player (and they want centers) and a second. It's in the ballpark.

True.

I'd rather take Yandle off their hands instead though.

[kipwinger 8,524]

If Arizona starts moving pieces, it'll be for long term assets. Not injury prone players who are UFAs after next season.

Agreed, but Boedker is a free agent after this season. Not going to get too many "long term assets" for a guy that most teams can sign in free agency in July.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Agreed, but Boedker is a free agent after this season. Not going to get too many "long term assets" for a guy that most teams can sign in free agency in July.

He's an RFA.

[kipwinger 8,524]

True.

I'd rather take Yandle off their hands instead though.

Me too, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that. He'd be SUPER expensive because he's under contract and he's awesome, and I'm sure someone will give more than us. So yeah, I'm not going to bother thinking about that.

He's an RFA.

Aha, well then you're right, he'll get a bigger return. I was thinking he was a UFA since he's been in the league since he was 12 or something.

[gcom007 1,465]

Yandle will become a Wing when he's 37. Just be patient you ingrates.........

[rick zombo 3,739]

Me too, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that. He'd be SUPER expensive because he's under contract and he's awesome, and I'm sure someone will give more than us. So yeah, I'm not going to bother thinking about that.

Only because there are some dumb GMs/desperate teams out there. *cough* Philly *cough*

One thing that is awesome though? Holland finally has some legitimate prospects to move if a deal comes along. I know that seems obvious, but up until this year, almost every NHL team always had better prospects to offer up in trades. Not so much anymore.

[Bannedforlife 403]

Word around the rumor mill is that Mikkel Boedker is available from Phoenix. Helm plus what to get a deal done?

The more relevant question you need to ask yourself is, do you ever see Holland trading Helm? For anyone? I sure don't.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Yandle will become a Wing when he's 37. Just be patient you ingrates.........

Yes, because the Wings are old and Holland only signs guys that are at least 37. And Swedes. Soft weak Swedes.

[gcom007 1,465]

Yes, because the Wings are old and Holland only signs guys that are at least 37. And Swedes. Soft weak Swedes.

That, and because of the universe exploding time paradox LetsGoWings.com Yandle witch monkey curse...

[kipwinger 8,524]

Only because there are some dumb GMs/desperate teams out there. *cough* Philly *cough*

One thing that is awesome though? Holland finally has some legitimate prospects to move if a deal comes along. I know that seems obvious, but up until this year, almost every NHL team always had better prospects to offer up in trades. Not so much anymore.

Yeah, I definitely don't want to make it seem like we NEED to trade or anything. I'm just saying we've got the pieces to make something happen if we decide to make a push for a Cup. And as good as this team is playing, I'm not sure why you wouldn't make that push. There's no telling whether you're going to get this kind of play out of Dats, Z, Franzen, Kronwall, going forward. It seems like we've got the absolutely perfect mix of youth and veteran presence. A little tweaking and we're elite. I'd upgrade that Helm wing position, and get that right shot d-man (who's also a powerplay QB), and I think we're dominant.

But, it would be hard to blame Holland for sitting tight. This team is pretty good without any moves at all. Although, sooner or later we're going to lose some of these prospects anyway, so why not use them to make a push?

The more relevant question you need to ask yourself is, do you ever see Holland trading Helm? For anyone? I sure don't.

I have to change my tune from the last couple years. I bitched because he didn't make moves, but it's clear (in retrospect) we weren't a contender and so what good would it have done? We are a contender now, and a trade or two would A) shore up our few weaknesses for a push, B) mean we wouldn't lose prospects for nothing. So I definitely think it's a greater possibility now than the last couple years.

[gcom007 1,465]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to make it seem like we NEED to trade or anything. I'm just saying we've got the pieces to make something happen if we decide to make a push for a Cup. And as good as this team is playing, I'm not sure why you wouldn't make that push. There's no telling whether you're going to get this kind of play out of Dats, Z, Franzen, Kronwall, going forward. It seems like we've got the absolutely perfect mix of youth and veteran presence. A little tweaking and we're elite. I'd upgrade that Helm wing position, and get that right shot d-man (who's also a powerplay QB), and I think we're dominant.

But, it would be hard to blame Holland for sitting tight. This team is pretty good without any moves at all. Although, sooner or later we're going to lose some of these prospects anyway, so why not use them to make a push?

We've still got a lot more offensive power than defensive. If we're going to make a move, we really ought to save the pieces for a defenseman. Dats and Tats might slow down, but maybe Nyqvist, Z, and Franzen will pick up then, for example. Weiss is getting things going fast now that he's a regular. And hell, we've still got a few tricks we could potentially pull out of GR if things get really rough. I think we're fine on offense. Not worth tinkering with.

[kipwinger 8,524]

We've still got a lot more offensive power than defensive. If we're going to make a move, we really ought to save the pieces for a defenseman. Dats and Tats might slow down, but maybe Nyqvist, Z, and Franzen will pick up then, for example. Weiss is getting things going fast now that he's a regular. And hell, we've still got a few tricks we could potentially pull out of GR if things get really rough. I think we're fine on offense. Not worth tinkering with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not against trading for a d-man. As I said above, I think if we can upgrade Helm's wing, and trade for a powerplay QB puck mover (like Mike Green), we'd be lethal. Absolutely lethal.

Edited December 8, 2014 by kipwinger