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nyqvististhefuture

Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

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Oilers are actually considering dealing taylor hall ... Jimmy Howard's been amazing and I know I'll get slaughtered for this and I don't care I'll say it anyways

Howard In a package deal to Edmonton for taylor hall I'd do In a heartbeat and then give mrazek (who I think will be a future star) most of the workload with Gus as backup and if need be throw in fasth in case and send him to the minors (he's sucked this year in Edmonton but he did have a stretch where he was real good in Anaheim and provide insurance)

Having a player like taylor hall in detroit would be a huge move and give us more hope to finish off some games rather than always playing overtime

That being said I do think Edmonton is all talk and won't end up moving him anyways

That's basically giving up on the season and of you're wrong about Mrazek it screws the team over long term. I'd much rather trade Mrazek.

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That's basically giving up on the season and of you're wrong about Mrazek it screws the team over long term. I'd much rather trade Mrazek.

I don't think it is , I'm really convinced on mrazek ... And when's the last time detroit ever had a goalie prospect this good? Don't think they ever have

Mrazek has a lot of confidence for a young kid and doesn't let a bad goal get to him which you need in the nhl to succeed , add to that he's 22 and howard is 30 , he's got 8 years more on Howard

Also as unbelievable howard has been this year so far I don't know if I trust him longterm and it's always best to trade someone while there hot rather than when there cold and no one wants them and lose all value

That being said I think there's 0 chance redwings will trade either of them

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Nor do we want him.

we don't?

Admittedly I can't see a scenario where the Wings could get Hall anytime soon, but I also can't imagine why the Wings wouldn't want him given the right deal.

Yes he plays a little recklessly and isn't great defensively, but I can't hold too much against him for any of that given the disaster that is the Edmonton Oilers. He still has maturing to do, and it's not gonna happen in Edmonton under the conditions there for the last few years.

Hall basically is their offense and under the right circumstances the guy could become crazy good, he is what 22? If I'm Chiarelli I'd have MacT on speed dial.

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Not even close to getting Hall with that package. Edm give up a top 5 winger in the NHL for...

Helm - 3rd liner at best

Smith - Top 6 D man (at best top 4).

Pulks - AHL winger who is currently unproven.

Realistic package will start with Tatar, Nyquist or Mantha, then ++

A realistic realistic package probably starts with Zetterberg. That's assuming EDM would even be interested in him.

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Not even close to getting Hall with that package. Edm give up a top 5 winger in the NHL for...

Helm - 3rd liner at best

Smith - Top 6 D man (at best top 4).

Pulks - AHL winger who is currently unproven.

Realistic package will start with Tatar, Nyquist or Mantha, then ++

A realistic realistic package probably starts with Zetterberg. That's assuming EDM would even be interested in him.

Z at this point in his career wouldn't net us Hall note would be waive to top go to the Lowe gong show.

Mantha, Dekeyser, Goose plus a top pick would have to be packaged in some sort

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we don't?

Admittedly I can't see a scenario where the Wings could get Hall anytime soon, but I also can't imagine why the Wings wouldn't want him given the right deal.

Yes he plays a little recklessly and isn't great defensively, but I can't hold too much against him for any of that given the disaster that is the Edmonton Oilers. He still has maturing to do, and it's not gonna happen in Edmonton under the conditions there for the last few years.

Yeah. Maybe a little hubris on my part.

The proud Wings fan in me says “we don’t need that big-lipped potential dressing room cancer that eats up coaches like they’re chicken mcnuggets”.

But you’re right. Technically, any team should want him badly. I get what you’re saying.

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Z at this point in his career wouldn't net us Hall note would be waive to top go to the Lowe gong show. Mantha, Dekeyser, Goose plus a top pick would have to be packaged in some sort

Z doesn't have a no trade, which I think is what you're trying to say...

And there's only so many roster spots, I can't imagine Edmonton would be looking for more of the same s*** they already have. I'd think they'd be looking for quality, not quantity, as well as some leadership to try to teach all the kids they have how to play.

Then again, it's Edmonton. They might be hoping to trade Hall to themselves straight-up for Hall.

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Z doesn't have a no trade, which I think is what you're trying to say...

And there's only so many roster spots, I can't imagine Edmonton would be looking for more of the same s*** they already have. I'd think they'd be looking for quality, not quantity, as well as some leadership to try to teach all the kids they have how to play.

Then again, it's Edmonton. They might be hoping to trade Hall to themselves straight-up for Hall.

Thanks just looked it up and you are right he doesn't have one colour me shocked. That being said I don't think the Oilers would ask for him nor Pasha. Hall is their biggest trade piece they would want some serious return both in terms of quantity and quality which obviously means Mantha/Goose, Dekeyser + and personally I would not want to pay that.

It's really unbelievable Hall is on his 4 coach in 5 years..

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Thanks just looked it up and you are right he doesn't have one colour me shocked. That being said I don't think the Oilers would ask for him nor Pasha. Hall is their biggest trade piece they would want some serious return both in terms of quantity and quality which obviously means Mantha/Goose, Dekeyser + and personally I would not want to pay that.

It's really unbelievable Hall is on his 4 coach in 5 years..

The number of coaches the legos (because they're always rebuilding) has more to do with poor management than anything else. I would think that if Hall came to a team with so many established players and a respected coach he'd be reined in bit and pay attention.

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I don't think it is , I'm really convinced on mrazek ... And when's the last time detroit ever had a goalie prospect this good? Don't think they ever have

Mrazek has a lot of confidence for a young kid and doesn't let a bad goal get to him which you need in the nhl to succeed , add to that he's 22 and howard is 30 , he's got 8 years more on Howard

Also as unbelievable howard has been this year so far I don't know if I trust him longterm and it's always best to trade someone while there hot rather than when there cold and no one wants them and lose all value

That being said I think there's 0 chance redwings will trade either of them

trading Jimmy I think that's just stupid the guy has been amazing its not his fault we cant get any offense going and on top of that even if his value is high I don't want to lose a GRANTEED goalie to someone who hasn't even had a full season yet I to think petr will be amazing but id rather have a 1 2 punch for years to come

Edited by sjr2012

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They'll need to get a high profile player or a package containing a couple top prospects/high upside young guys in return for hall to get fans excited about the team imo. I don't see the wings willing to trade enough to land him.

But damn, Z-pav-hall sounds so good.

Edited by amato

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A realistic realistic package probably starts with Zetterberg. That's assuming EDM would even be interested in him.

Z and D are not leaving Detroit, most GM's already know that so it's very unrealistic to include either in any packages. Like someone else said it starts with Nyquist /+ Mantha ++

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Zetterberg and Datysuk will never be traded. Ever.

In order to get Hall, Detroit would have to overpay if they're just offering mainly prospects and futures. Especially since we don't really have a young proven stud defenceman.

Start with Nyquist + Mantha + Mrasek +...

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Zetterberg and Datysuk will never be traded. Ever.

In order to get Hall, Detroit would have to overpay if they're just offering mainly prospects and futures. Especially since we don't really have a young proven stud defenceman.

Start with Nyquist + Mantha + Mrasek +...

I thought Riley's brother was a young, proven, stud?

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Zetterberg and Datysuk will never be traded. Ever.

In order to get Hall, Detroit would have to overpay if they're just offering mainly prospects and futures. Especially since we don't really have a young proven stud defenceman.

Start with Nyquist + Mantha + Mrasek +...

Jesus. I'd almost have to start cheering for the Oilers.

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Zetterberg and Datysuk will never be traded. Ever.

In order to get Hall, Detroit would have to overpay if they're just offering mainly prospects and futures. Especially since we don't really have a young proven stud defenceman.

Start with Nyquist + Mantha + Mrasek +...

Jesus. I'd almost have to start cheering for the Oilers.

Nobody would get that. Think of all the high profile players that get traded, and NONE of them went for a package of a teams best young scorer and two top prospects. None of Spezza, Kesler, Ryan, Seguin, Nash, Gaborik, Iginla, Carter, etc. etc. etc. moved for a package like that. None. So why would anybody think that's what it would take to get Hall? Because he's so much better? He isn't.

Everybody always thinks that to get a good player the Wings would have to give the world. But the very fact that a guy is being traded means his value is diminished. The only guys that would require Nyquist, Mantha, Mrazek TOO START are truly elite guys (Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos). And those guys don't get traded.

Edited by kipwinger

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Everyone is going to be surprised what Hall does get traded for...if he does get traded. I know every GM tries to (and sometimes successfully) rape Holland, but come on, Hall is a great player, but he isn't Sindey ******* Crosby. Nyquist + Mantha + Mrazek + more? Some of you are saying Nyquist, Jurco, Dekeyser, Mantha, 1st rounder? Let's be real here. First off, Nyquist is only 4 points behind Hall in scoring, with 6 more goals. He makes $5M less and currently leads the league in PP goals. Mantha's potential is thru the roof right now, so he would be considered a grade A, blue chip prospect. Dekeyser was coveted by ALL 30 teams and would still bring a pretty hefty return if he were to be traded. If Holland traded Nyquist, Mantha, Dekeyser and a 1st rounder for someone, it damn well better be a 100+ point franchise player.

Even in my previous posts I admitted that Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen should be enough, but it won't because of the Rape clause when it comes to Holland. But when and if Hall does get traded, people are going to be very angry that he went for less than the talent of Helm, Smith and Pulkkinen.

You are right though, Edmonton will most definitely asking for Nyquist and Mantha from Holland. In that case, f*** them.

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I can live without Hall.

Our NHL Holiday Wish List -- According to Sportsnet. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-holiday-wish-lists-eastern-conference/

Detroit A healthy Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg for the rest of the year might be too obvious a request.

What the Red Wings are really desperate for is a top-four, right-handed D-man.

They tried to sign a few in the off-season as UFAs and had no luck, so it’s possible they’ll be pursuing the answer via trade come the new year.

Keep tabs on the likes of pending UFAs Mike Green, Cody Franson and Jeff Petry—all of whom are righties and play decent enough possession games to fit in well with the Wings.

Tyler Myers is a younger option who Buffalo may be willing to move in its race to the bottom for McDavid.

Same old, same old.

Edited by e_prime

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Call me crazy but I think trying to trade for a potentially elite player is a good thing. Hall is 23 years old and scored 80 points in 75 games last season. He is not the reason Edmonton is horrible, that's on managment. I would think that Edmonton fans would commit ass suicide if they were to trade him and I doubt he's really on the block. Even if he were the Wings wouldn't part with the pieces to make it happen.

But I want to play too....

Mantha + Tatar + Smith + 1st Rd pick for Hall and Petry

Mantha is a blue chip prospect...but still a prospect. Tatar is a good player but a tradeable asset. Losing Smith would hurt but I think we have some prospects that could step in if we don't make a trade. Again Hall could be an elite player and if you haven't noticed the two of those the Wings have are a little long in the tooth

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Call me crazy but I think trying to trade for a potentially elite player is a good thing. Hall is 23 years old and scored 80 points in 75 games last season. He is not the reason Edmonton is horrible, that's on managment. I would think that Edmonton fans would commit ass suicide if they were to trade him and I doubt he's really on the block. Even if he were the Wings wouldn't part with the pieces to make it happen.

But I want to play too....

Mantha + Tatar + Smith + 1st Rd pick for Hall and Petry

Mantha is a blue chip prospect...but still a prospect. Tatar is a good player but a tradeable asset. Losing Smith would hurt but I think we have some prospects that could step in if we don't make a trade. Again Hall could be an elite player and if you haven't noticed the two of those the Wings have are a little long in the tooth

In 2009-2010 Alexander Semin had 84 points. Prior to that, his previous efforts were all as good (or better) than Hall's. A number of other players have touched 80-90 pts once or twice and then completely fallen off. Actually, that happens more often than a guy consistently performing at an elite level for a whole career. Plus, having two 50 pt. guys (theoretically) is better than having one 100 pt. guy. It's a lot harder to shutdown two guys.

I wouldn't trade Tatar+Mantha+Smith+1st for almost anybody in the league. The only exceptions are guys who will absolutely NEVER get traded.

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Mantha = Untouchable. Period. Sure he is unproven at the NHL level, but he is the real deal.

Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen should be enough for a guy who is "uncoachable" in EDM. Helm could be a leader there and would instantly be the best defensive forward. Smith is still young enough to have untapped potential, especially in a larger role, and Pulk is one of our top prospects and has been touted as a future 2nd liner in the NHL.

What makes me laugh is, every time someone talks about trading Helm (for example) people here scream, NO, why trade your best penalty killer, the best bottom 6'er in the league, etc...etc... He is so great at his position, he is invaluable. Yet, when his name is tossed around in acquiring something we need, in the same breath they say Helm would not get us anything is trade. Either he is one of the best defensive forwards in the league or he is our scraps. He has huge trade value, and guarantee 29 other teams would love to have him. I understand your love for him, but he is either good or bad. I believe he is good enough to package and get something we need, and with Sheahan and Glendening, Helm is very tradable. We wouldn't really miss him too much.

Helm, Smith and Pulk is enough to get Hall. But, like always, EDM will ask for the moon and stars, and then accept lessor value from Florida (for example.) If a draft pick has to be thrown in to sweeten the pot, so be it, but now your are crossing into overpayment, IMO.

That being said, Detroit will not be getting Hall for that package or anything near it, because ALL GM's ask for Mantha. The experience and leadership Helm and Smith would bring to EDM along with a top prospect would more then replace Hall and "attitude." EDM would be rid of that, a ton of money, and again they gain leadership and calmness that seems to be lacking in the EDM locker room. Plus, its not like they don't have other stars in the making there already. They would hardly miss Hall especially for a player with "Captain" potential in Helm.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Mantha = Untouchable. Period. Sure he is unproven at the NHL level, but he is the real deal.

Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen should be enough for a guy who is "uncoachable" in EDM. Helm could be a leader there and would instantly be the best defensive forward. Smith is still young enough to have untapped potential, especially in a larger role, and Pulk is one of our top prospects and has been touted as a future 2nd liner in the NHL.

What makes me laugh is, every time someone talks about trading Helm (for example) people here scream, NO, why trade your best penalty killer, the best bottom 6'er in the league, etc...etc... He is so great at his position, he is invaluable. Yet, when his name is tossed around in acquiring something we need, in the same breath they say Helm would not get us anything is trade. Either he is one of the best defensive forwards in the league or he is our scraps. He has huge trade value, and guarantee 29 other teams would love to have him. I understand your love for him, but he is either good or bad. I believe he is good enough to package and get something we need, and with Sheahan and Glendening, Helm is very tradable. We wouldn't really miss him too much.

I agree with a couple of your points. Largely that Mantha is untouchable, and the previously mentioned trade packages are overkill. But I disagree with a couple of things.

1) When has Hall every been considered "uncoachable" and who made the claim? I've never heard that. As far as I knew, he was the only one of their young kids who didn't have an attitude problem. I've heard that about Yakupov, RNH, and Eberle (to a lesser extent), but not Hall.

2) Just because other people were offering too much, doesn't mean that you aren't offering too little. Taylor Hall is a very good player. You'd certainly have to give up a bigger piece than Helm as the cornerstone of any deal. Probably Nyquist + Smith + middling prospect would get it done. Helm as a center piece in that trade would get you laughed off the phone.

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