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nyqvististhefuture

Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

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Nyquist will not be traded because he is Swedish. But Kip, I do agree, I like Tatar better than Nyquist and would choose to trade him first. I'd rather not trade either of them, especially for the RH'd version of Ericsson. But maybe Pulkkinen will get his call up and maybe he will out perform Tatar. It just stinks that our D cannot get it together enough to avoid a major trade like this (rumor.) I know I was all over the (non)trade for Perron, but it would not have hurt as much as losing Tatar. He should be one of the untouchable's IMO. Hopefully this is only rumor and Holland just stands fast until one or two of his RH'd kids come up next year (marchenko or Jensen, both out of expemtions.)

I agree. At this point I don't want to see any kind of trade that involves significant pieces. Firstly, because I have a lot of faith in our kids. Secondly, because I have almost no faith in our coach using guys properly. Wouldn't it suck to lose Tatar for Myers and then have Babs utilize him in some asinine way? And it's not like that's out of the realm of possibility.

I'd waive Kindl (or trade for picks), promote Ouellet, and (maybe) add a second tier, right shot, defenseman at the deadline, if the asking price isn't too much.

Edited by kipwinger

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I agree. At this point I don't want to see any kind of trade that involves significant pieces. Firstly, because I have a lot of faith in our kids. Secondly, because I have almost no faith in our coach using guys properly. Wouldn't it suck to lose Tatar for Myers and then have Babs utilize him in some asinine way? And it's not like that's out of the realm of possibility.

I'd waive Kindl (or trade for picks), promote Ouellet, and (maybe) add a second tier, right shot, defenseman at the deadline, if the asking price isn't too much.

This is my expectation and even that is pushing it. I don't think Holland will move Kindl unless he gets something for him... maybe he gets moved in that second tier, right-handed shot d-man deadline move... and that's a big maybe in my mind.

I have faith that if we traded for Myers, Babs would certainly utilize him correctly... at least in his mind.

He would under-utilize him until Myers got comfortable which would essentially amount to under-utilizing enough him so that Babcock was never comfortable "letting him off the leash."

(see: Weiss) :D

Ultimately, I just don't think Myers is the immediate answer we're looking for.

Even though, if the price were right, I'd take him... Still prefer Yandle.

What I do wonder about is what has come up of recent:

Are his coaching schemes working overall? Questionable.

Are they the right ones for the makeup of this team? Questionable

Is he's going to eventually "lose" this team? Questionable.

(Mind you, he won't ever lose this team or players in the way other coaches might "lose" players or the team)

Are we going to suffer through this type of situation if he gets re-signed and Holland remains GM? Probably.

Do we want Babcock to remain our coach for the foreseeable future?

Well... do ya?

Edited by e_prime

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This is my expectation and even that is pushing it. I don't think Holland will move Kindl unless he gets something for him... maybe he gets moved in that second tier, right-handed shot d-man deadline move... and that's a big maybe in my mind.

I have faith that if we traded for Myers, Babs would certainly utilize him correctly... at least in his mind.

He would under-utilize him until Myers got comfortable which would essentially amount to under-utilizing enough him so that Babcock was never comfortable "letting him off the leash."

(see: Weiss) :D

Ultimately, I just don't think Myers is the immediate answer we're looking for.

Even though, if the price were right, I'd take him... Still prefer Yandle.

What I do wonder about is what has come up of recent:

Are his coaching schemes working overall? Questionable.

Are they the right ones for the makeup of this team? Questionable

Is he's going to eventually "lose" this team? Questionable.

(Mind you, he won't ever lose this team or players in the way other coaches might "lose" players or the team)

Are we going to suffer through this type of situation if he gets re-signed and Holland remains GM? Probably.

Do we want Babcock to remain our coach for the foreseeable future?

Well... do ya?

Haha, I think everybody knows my feelings on this one. So I'll avoid rehashing it.

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Seeing how the legwand trade worked out better for us (he has 4 goals, 9 points in 34 games) and the quincey trade was kind of a wash considering that pick didn't yield anything great for Tampa, I would say Holland has been fleeced so much as everyone makes it seem. If he thinks Tatar for Myers is fair, then I'll let the professional decide on that one.

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I'm just surprised that so many do. ...but we're a loyal bunch, right?

Well if he's half the genius everything thinks he is then here's his chance to prove it. He's got a healthy roster. By his own admission he's got more people who can score than he's had since 2009. Also, by his own admission he's got the "best team" he's had since 2009. So if he can't make a little noise in the playoffs then I think that goes a long way toward answering the questions you asked above. I don't expect him to win it all, not with this defense. But I don't think a conference finals appearance is asking too much...if, as I've said, he's the bestest coach eva.

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I'm just surprised that so many do. ...but we're a loyal bunch, right?

Well in a perfect world I would have prefered Nill - Babcock or even better Yzerman - Babcock and Holland as VP of hockey operations but that's not gonna happen for at least another 4 years. Personally I think the decision according Babcock has already been made otherwise he would have long been said, so the question for me is whom to I want as a replacement.

Blashill ? Great success in the AHL but remember Eakins

Bylsma ? His offensive style is not the right approach for this team

Tortarella ? Hell no

Julien ? If the Bruins fire him ...interesting choice but the Wings are way too soft for his style of play

Hitchcock ? Has the Blues playing a very tight defensive system behind a comparable goalie but their defense is much better...Pietrangelo is easily a top 5 defender but he should do better than all the aforementioned coaches

Hartley ? Loves hard work, is a no BS kind of guy although the makeup of the team would have to change

Other than that there really aren't much choices for the Wings so would I prefer Babs staying ? Of course but I don't think it will happen.

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Well if he's half the genius everything thinks he is then here's his chance to prove it. He's got a healthy roster. By his own admission he's got more people who can score than he's had since 2009. Also, by his own admission he's got the "best team" he's had since 2009. So if he can't make a little noise in the playoffs then I think that goes a long way toward answering the questions you asked above. I don't expect him to win it all, not with this defense. But I don't think a conference finals appearance is asking too much...if, as I've said, he's the bestest coach eva.

I don't remember him saying that but there's no way this team has more people who can score since 2009. The 2010 versions of Dats, Z, Rafalski, Lids, Homer, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Flip, Kronwall and Franzen alone beats this lineup.

Even if the forwards in 2010 and now were equal, Lidstrom and Rafalski blow away anyone we have on the blueline right now.

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I don't remember him saying that but there's no way this team has more people who can score since 2009. The 2010 versions of Dats, Z, Rafalski, Lids, Homer, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Flip, Kronwall and Franzen alone beats this lineup.

Even if the forwards in 2010 and now were equal, Lidstrom and Rafalski blow away anyone we have on the blueline right now.

Kip is correct. He did say these things. I have no link, but it hapened.

But you are also correct. At least with regards the blueline.

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Well in a perfect world I would have prefered Nill - Babcock or even better Yzerman - Babcock and Holland as VP of hockey operations but that's not gonna happen for at least another 4 years. Personally I think the decision according Babcock has already been made otherwise he would have long been said, so the question for me is whom to I want as a replacement.

Blashill ? Great success in the AHL but remember Eakins

Bylsma ? His offensive style is not the right approach for this team

Tortarella ? Hell no

Julien ? If the Bruins fire him ...interesting choice but the Wings are way too soft for his style of play

Hitchcock ? Has the Blues playing a very tight defensive system behind a comparable goalie but their defense is much better...Pietrangelo is easily a top 5 defender but he should do better than all the aforementioned coaches

Hartley ? Loves hard work, is a no BS kind of guy although the makeup of the team would have to change

Other than that there really aren't much choices for the Wings so would I prefer Babs staying ? Of course but I don't think it will happen.

Jeff Blashill and Dallas Eakins' situations are NOTHING alike. This isn't the first time you've used Eakins' tragicomedy as a justification for why Blashill might not be the right choice for Detroit and you couldn't be more wrong.

1. Jeff Blashill is a MUCH better coach than Dallas Eakins was in the AHL. His record and accomplishments speak for themselves. Something Eakins cannot say.

2. You're falsely making it seem like Eakins' wasn't successful in Edmonton because he wasn't an established NHL coach and was coming from the AHL. That, in short, is bulls***. Many coaches, with much greater experience, have sucked worse at coaching the Oilers. Eakins' actually had a better record coaching the Oilers than Pat Quinn did.

3. The Red Wings are not the Oilers. A team led by disciplined, decorated, and accountable veterans intermixed with some up and coming young players who have learned how to play the game right and were developed correctly is NOTHING like a team full of young, entitled, first rounders with zero development and no accountability.

Overall, I actually agree with your general point. No sense letting Babcock go if there isn't a better option. I agree 100%. And it's up to Ken Holland and co. to determine whether there are better options. But please stop using Dallas Eakins and the Edmonton Oilers as some kind of cautionary tale. Literally the only thing that Eakins and Blashill have in common is that they both coached in the AHL. Aside from that, they're apples to oranges.

I don't remember him saying that but there's no way this team has more people who can score since 2009. The 2010 versions of Dats, Z, Rafalski, Lids, Homer, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Flip, Kronwall and Franzen alone beats this lineup.

Even if the forwards in 2010 and now were equal, Lidstrom and Rafalski blow away anyone we have on the blueline right now.

He did. Right here. I linked you to this a couple weeks ago. Clearly you and Uncle Mike have very different opinions on the offensive potential of this team.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/11/theres_no_shortage_of_power_in.html

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Kip is correct. He did say these things. I have no link, but it hapened.

But you are also correct. At least with regards the blueline.

I think with forwards too. The 2010 team had a lot of injuries, but Dats and Z were better. Franzen was the better version then. This team doesn't have anything that matches Homer, especially on the PP. Flip was having a good year. Bertuzzi was still a threat. Cleary was still a solid 20 goal 40 point guy.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but with the current roster once you get past Dats, Z, Franzen, Nyquist and Tatar, goal scoring ability drops off significantly. Maybe Abby this year.

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I think with forwards too. The 2010 team had a lot of injuries, but Dats and Z were better. Franzen was the better version then. This team doesn't have anything that matches Homer, especially on the PP. Flip was having a good year. Bertuzzi was still a threat. Cleary was still a solid 20 goal 40 point guy.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but with the current roster once you get past Dats, Z, Franzen, Nyquist and Tatar, goal scoring ability drops off significantly. Maybe Abby this year.

I take projections with a grain of salt, but based on their current levels of production we can "expect" the following:

25-30 goals: Tatar, Nyquist, Datsyuk

18-20 goals: Zetterberg, Abdelkader

15 goals: Helm, Sheahan, Franzen, (maybe) Weiss.

10 goals: Kronwall

I agree with you about the vast difference in the quality of our defense, but it's really not hard to see why Babs would feel that way about the forwards (at least). If you look at it like its listed above, you've essentially got a first line full of 30 goal scorers, a second line full of 20 goal scorer, a third line full of 15 goal scorers, and a shutdown fourth line.

Edited by kipwinger

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More "news" from the Insiderr:

Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr

#BREAKINGNEWS Received confirmation from #Sabres source that Buffalo has refused the #RedWings offer for a Tatar-for-Myers swap.

From the same source: the #Sabres will not move Myers unless the return is either Tatar OR Larkin OR Mantha AND #Redwings 2015 1st rounder.

Also I am told that the #Sabres continue negotiations with #RedWings for Myers but are still very much open for the other 28 NHL teams.

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More "news" from the Insiderr:

Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr

#BREAKINGNEWS Received confirmation from #Sabres source that Buffalo has refused the #RedWings offer for a Tatar-for-Myers swap.

From the same source: the #Sabres will not move Myers unless the return is either Tatar OR Larkin OR Mantha AND #Redwings 2015 1st rounder.

Also I am told that the #Sabres continue negotiations with #RedWings for Myers but are still very much open for the other 28 NHL teams.

I'd like to thank Helene St. James for starting all this crap with her retarded article. What the hell was she thinking? I wonder what it would take to get Tomas Tatar's mother to punch St. James in the mouth?

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Haaa I had completely forgotten about this "hockey insider" lol

I personally like myers more than yandle but I wouldn't get rid of our 1st round pick in a deal , and if it means we don't get myers/yandle than so be it

What's the point of having all these top d prospects if we don't give them playing time? We'd be way better with ouellet in fulltime and alternating marchenko in some games ... Just have to find a taker for kindl

I think we need a dallas drake type guy who will knock the s*** out of guys come playoff time , a chris Neil type in his prime would be awesome

We got too many nice guys with awesome skill , we need some guys who can actually play hockey but have some bite and nastyness in them

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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I'd like to thank Helene St. James for starting all this crap with her retarded article. What the hell was she thinking? I wonder what it would take to get Tomas Tatar's mother to punch St. James in the mouth?

Reporters gotta report tho'...

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We got too many nice guys with awesome skill , we need some guys who can actually play hockey but have some bite and nastyness in them

If only we could find that HOCKEY STORE!???!!!!

Somebody google map that s*** for Holland.

Edited by e_prime

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If I was Ken Holland I'd call her office right now and ask "what the f*** Helene"? Why would you speculate about a players' trade value, and fuel subsequent rumors, while he's playing the best hockey of anyone on the team?

I've always thought Helene St. James was stupid. But this is seriously next level stupidity. It's like if stupidity went super saiyan.

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If I was Ken Holland I'd call her office right now and ask "what the f*** Helene"? Why would you speculate about a players' trade value, and fuel subsequent rumors, while he's playing the best hockey of anyone on the team?

I've always thought Helene St. James was stupid. But this is seriously next level stupidity. It's like if stupidity went super saiyan.

Like... Stupor Saiyan?

HockeyyInsiderr = NHLSourcesSay, at least in terms of being click bait on a smaller scale. People would cite NSS during the off-season. I'm pretty sure they had something about Green coming here for Tatar, as well. I'm all for adding on to the back-end, but giving away your leading goal scorer for a project? Yikes.

Helene writing about it, on the other hand, is just plain idiotic. I'm starting to feel like Ansar Khan is the only legitimate source for Red Wings material. He rarely speculates, and when he does, it's generally very reasonable.

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If I was Ken Holland I'd call her office right now and ask "what the f*** Helene"? Why would you speculate about a players' trade value, and fuel subsequent rumors, while he's playing the best hockey of anyone on the team?

I've always thought Helene St. James was stupid. But this is seriously next level stupidity. It's like if stupidity went super saiyan.

Liked for the DBZ reference.

On topic though every time I click my bookmark for this site I have this horrible feeling I'm going to see a "Tatar traded" thread because of this crap. I was okay with the idea of trading him last year over Nyquist, but he for sure has more than won me over this year and now I'd like to just keep both.

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