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nyqvististhefuture

Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

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I happen to think it is a conspiracy amongst the other GM's to raise the asking price when it comes to the Red Wings. Not that they all hate Ken Holland and want to lynch him, but because Detroit has done so good the last million years (so it would seem to every other GM in the league) that they don't want to give them something that may help them get better without taking something super valuable to their future. David Perron for example, I am sure Edmonton had talks with most of the GM's in the league (Ken Holland included seeing that he has interest in Petry) and what they accepted from Pitt could have been beaten by Andersson and our 1st pick. But I am sure the asking price from Holland was a top prospect and our #1 pick. Which (even though I ranted for a couple of days) I am glad we didn't give them. I am sure at least Edmonton wanted Pulk and the 1st, and Holland isn't dealing either. I'd like to see a trade to better our team, but not a the price of rape. I happen to think the rumor of Tatar for Myers is overprice. The ONLY guy that would garner (in my book) ANY of our top prospects or super kids on our team is Shea Weber and I balk at even starting with Mantha for him.

We missed out on Suter, and he would have been solid (I hate the description) on this team, but he hasn't won anything in Minny yet, even with all that "talent" up there. He isn't exactly the absolute best in the league and we aren't the worst without him. If Holland could land a #3/#4 RD'd guy for a lower prospect or pick and lower roster player, that would be great, but if the prices are too rape, I mean high, then I just assume wait on our kids. Pulk will be here no matter what next season, as will Jensen if he isn't traded or signs somewhere else as an RFA. Ouellet seems to be on the fast track to staying, even though he has another entire year of exemptions. His exemptions run out the same time as Sproul and Marchenko as well. Something has got to give since in two years time, there still won't be enough room for 4 new defensemen. Especially if Smith is re-signed and not traded. So, unless we get a rental on the cheap, do we really have room for a guy under contract with 4 of our own being out of exemptions in the next two off season's?

I disclaim that even though I said what I said above, I will still be bitching on March 2nd about Holland, because that is what I do on a knee jerk reaction. It helps me get frustration off my chest and then after a couple of days, I will calm down and return to my mindset of what I said above. This is not an emergency, only a test. We now return you to your program! :ninja:

Edited by LeftWinger

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I happen to think it is a conspiracy amongst the other GM's to raise the asking price when it comes to the Red Wings. Not that they all hate Ken Holland and want to lynch him, but because Detroit has done so good the last million years (so it would seem to every other GM in the league) that they don't want to give them something that may help them get better without taking something super valuable to their future. David Perron for example, I am sure Edmonton had talks with most of the GM's in the league (Ken Holland included seeing that he has interest in Petry) and what they accepted from Pitt could have been beaten by Andersson and our 1st pick. But I am sure the asking price from Holland was a top prospect and our #1 pick. Which (even though I ranted for a couple of days) I am glad we didn't give them. I am sure at least Edmonton wanted Pulk and the 1st, and Holland isn't dealing either. I'd like to see a trade to better our team, but not a the price of rape. I happen to think the rumor of Tatar for Myers is overprice. The ONLY guy that would garner (in my book) ANY of our top prospects or super kids on our team is Shea Weber and I balk at even starting with Mantha for him.

We missed out on Suter, and he would have been solid (I hate the description) on this team, but he hasn't won anything in Minny yet, even with all that "talent" up there. He isn't exactly the absolute best in the league and we aren't the worst without him. If Holland could land a #3/#4 RD'd guy for a lower prospect or pick and lower roster player, that would be great, but if the prices are too rape, I mean high, then I just assume wait on our kids. Pulk will be here no matter what next season, as will Jensen if he isn't traded or signs somewhere else as an RFA. Ouellet seems to be on the fast track to staying, even though he has another entire year of exemptions. His exemptions run out the same time as Sproul and Marchenko as well. Something has got to give since in two years time, there still won't be enough room for 4 new defensemen. Especially if Smith is re-signed and not traded. So, unless we get a rental on the cheap, do we really have room for a guy under contract with 4 of our own being out of exemptions in the next two off season's?

I disclaim that even though I said what I said above, I will still be bitching on March 2nd about Holland, because that is what I do on a knee jerk reaction. It helps me get frustration off my chest and then after a couple of days, I will calm down and return to my mindset of what I said above. This is not an emergency, only a test. We now return you to your program! :ninja:

Conspiracy "theory", by you.

I love your pro-Wings hubris. Believe me. But come on.

Look back to the most recent period where the Wings were contenders. Circa 2007-2009.

Holland got the final piece from LA (Stuart) for a 2nd and 4th round pick. That's hardly trade-rape or whatever you want to call it.

I would further add that beyond that deal we have a desperate Holland knowingly overpaying for Legwand last year. Was Poille in on some grand league-wide conspiracy? Hell no. If I were a Nashville fan I would have demanded his balls on a platter if he didn't take Holland's lunch money on that one.

Then you're left with the Quincey trade. Fair enough, maybe Colorado won't deal directly with Detroit because they were butt-hurt or something, but do you really think Stevie Y was out to get him? Of course not. He was after the best deal for his club, and Holland was dumb/desperate enough to give him a 1st for Quincey.

Also, you're crazy if you would "balk" at a Mantha for Weber deal. IMO, that's the one guy you give up the farm for.

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I was thoroughly impressed last night with Tatar that I have decided I am DEAD SET against using him to acquire Myers.

I was also impressed enough with the play and composure of Petry to want him to be our pickup to solidify the top 4 defense. I just hope that it doesn't cost too much. I assume that Kindl would probably be involved, but I do believe it would cost a bit more to acquire Petry, especially since Edmonton knows that Detroit has a 99.99999% chance of re-signing him long term.

Would you swap Smith & Kindl for Petry and a 2nd rounder in this years draft? That would open the door for XO to stay, Petry would take Smith's spot and the2nd rounder would make up for the one Kenny sent to Nashville. Plus, that 2nd rounder could be high enough that Kenny could entertain idea's of trading our 1st rounder for some "rental" help for the playoffs. That being said, I am not sure Edmonton would send us that 2nd rounder. Maybe their 3rd, since it would almost be like a low second rounder.

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I was thoroughly impressed last night with Tatar that I have decided I am DEAD SET against using him to acquire Myers.

I was also impressed enough with the play and composure of Petry to want him to be our pickup to solidify the top 4 defense. I just hope that it doesn't cost too much. I assume that Kindl would probably be involved, but I do believe it would cost a bit more to acquire Petry, especially since Edmonton knows that Detroit has a 99.99999% chance of re-signing him long term.

Would you swap Smith & Kindl for Petry and a 2nd rounder in this years draft? That would open the door for XO to stay, Petry would take Smith's spot and the2nd rounder would make up for the one Kenny sent to Nashville. Plus, that 2nd rounder could be high enough that Kenny could entertain idea's of trading our 1st rounder for some "rental" help for the playoffs. That being said, I am not sure Edmonton would send us that 2nd rounder. Maybe their 3rd, since it would almost be like a low second rounder.

In terms of RH defenders, factoring in perceived cost and impact to the team, I would probably rate them as follows:

Green > Zidlicky > Petry > Myers

I wouldn't move Smith in a deal for Petry, but I would be willing to move Helm (and Kindl, obviously). Might not be a popular decision, and was apparently already rejected by Red Wings' brass (http://oilersnation.com/2014/12/23/jeff-petry-the-detroit-red-wings), but that's the deal I would make. The issue remains, of course, that only swapping out Kindl doesn't create a spot for XO. I always feel like I'm a bit off on perceived value - maybe it's my time spent on HFboards. This is what I'd be willing to give up for each of those defenders...

Green for Helm, Smith + Kindl (Might be seen as an overpayment by some, but I think Detroit could re-sign him. Don't view him as a rental, and think he's got the best offensive instincts of the bunch by far.)

Zidlicky for Anderson + Kindl (Could add a pick, but with his age and UFA status, getting two serviceable players should be enough, IMO.)

Petry for Helm + Kindl (Again, could be perceived as too much for rental, but I feel Detroit could re-sign.)

Myers for Franzen, Smith, rights to Backman + 2nd round pick (I have the most difficulty with this one. They were after Larkin/Mantha, so I'm not sure what this package would do for them. I might offer prospect along the lines of a Tvrdon or Frk instead of that 2nd rounder, but that's it.)

Feel free to chime in with any additional targets you think the Wings should go after. I think my value is close on Zidlicky and Petry, but who knows about the other two.

Edit: Also, does anyone have a good site that keeps track of which picks teams currently posses for the 2015 draft? I've found a couple, but they're pretty cluttered or seem to be full of old information.

Edited by Jesusberg

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aint Justin Schultz and UFA at the end of this season? or is he an RFA? im sure we we're in for him when he was

a FA after his NCAA days. 76 pts in 161 games from the blueline is appealling but that -47 dont look too good.

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aint Justin Schultz and UFA at the end of this season? or is he an RFA? im sure we we're in for him when he was

a FA after his NCAA days. 76 pts in 161 games from the blueline is appealling but that -47 dont look too good.

Detroit was in the mix for him when he was leaving Wisconsin. I'm not sure if DeKeyser was the year after, or same year... but I remember both of their names popping up at the same time, along with Sustr from the Bolts.

I'd be fine with looking into Schultz as a #3-#4 guy for this team, but Mac T says he's got "Norris Trophy potential"... so I don't even want to know his asking price. It would probably be akin to what Murray is asking for Myers.

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I was thoroughly impressed last night with Tatar that I have decided I am DEAD SET against using him to acquire Myers.

I was also impressed enough with the play and composure of Petry to want him to be our pickup to solidify the top 4 defense. I just hope that it doesn't cost too much. I assume that Kindl would probably be involved, but I do believe it would cost a bit more to acquire Petry, especially since Edmonton knows that Detroit has a 99.99999% chance of re-signing him long term.

Would you swap Smith & Kindl for Petry and a 2nd rounder in this years draft? That would open the door for XO to stay, Petry would take Smith's spot and the2nd rounder would make up for the one Kenny sent to Nashville. Plus, that 2nd rounder could be high enough that Kenny could entertain idea's of trading our 1st rounder for some "rental" help for the playoffs. That being said, I am not sure Edmonton would send us that 2nd rounder. Maybe their 3rd, since it would almost be like a low second rounder.

Petty isn't as good as Smith. Moving out Smith and Kindl for Petry and Ouellet makes the team worse. Bad trade.

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The bottom line is, if you want to acquire a defenseman this season that is not just going to be a playoff rental, you are going to have to dump 2 or your top 6 defensemen. XO is not going to be here to be the #7 guy. Lashoff is that guy and he makes very minimal salary which wouldn't put too much money in the press box. In two summers you are going to have 4 AHL defensemen out of exemptions. Jensen this summer and Marcehnko, Sproul and XO next summer. If you acquire Petry (for example) and re-sign him this summer that is one spot gone. Let's say Kindl is dumped (whether its for Petry or a pick doesn't matter.) Next training camp you have:

Kronwall, Ericsson, Dekeyser, Quincey, Petry under contract. If you hang on to Smith and re-sign him that is 6 spots. I already said XO is not going to be here to be #7, so you go ahead a keep Lashoff for that. Now, since he still has exemptions, XO goes back to GR. BUT you have Jensen who is out of options. He almost won a spot here this year, so I imagine he will challenge again next year, except now, you cannot send him to GR. Jensen could possibly come up and be that #7 guy if you opted to get rid of Lashoff, but it still keeps XO in GR. Because now, with re-signing Petry and Smith, you have this:

Kronwall - Ericsson - Dekeyser - Petry - Smith - Quincey - Jensen

That is fine, BUT it seems destined that XO is going to be here permanently starting now, so you have to make room for him. Now, fast forward to 2016 off season, you will need to re-sign Dekeyser, plus now Sproul, Marchenko and XO are all out of exemptions. So lets say you re-signed Petry and Smith the year prior and let Quincey walk as a UFA next, you dealt Kindl and Lashoff the year prior as well, you now have this:

Kronwall - Ericsson - Dekeyser - Petry - Smith - Jensen - XO - Sproul - Marchenko

9 players vying for 7 spots. That is why it makes sense to deal someone else in your top 6 along with Kindl. That someone with the best trade value is Smith (I know Dekeyser is better, but he is not being traded.) Petry and Smith may be a wash talent-wise ( I happen to think Petry is better defensively) but Petry addresses something Holland covets, a RH's shot. I suppose you could always trade 2 of your 4 prospects, but since 3 of them are RH'd and Holland needs his RH'rs I find it difficult that he may do that.

Even if Holland dealt Smith, you still have 3 kids fighting for 2 spots. XO would take the #5 spot and the other 3 would fight for #6 and #7. You still cannot send any of them back down to GR in 2016 so now what do you do? This is a good thing to have a log jam of talented defensemen, but Holland may be forced to not only trade Smith, but one of his prospects as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like Smith and am not calling for his head, but in order to fit Petry here (or any other non-rental defenseman) Kindl and another top 6 guy will have to go. Lashoff can be dealt as well, but you are either going to have Smith or XO sitting in the press box if all you trade is Kindl out of your top 6. Your top six would be this:

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Petry

XO - Quincey

Smith would be the #7 rotating with XO. Now I would gladly deal Quincey before Smith, but he does not have as much trade value and moving Q and re-signing Smith longer does help the log jam in 2016. Hedging the fact that Quincey leaves as a UFA only helps in 2016, not a long termed signed Smith.

If Holland values Smith too much to move him, then the best thing to do is move Kindl to keep XO here this year and not acquire anyone. Then next season, you re-sign Smith, keep XO here, dump Lashoff and promote Jensen to #7. The year after that, you let Quincey go, everyone moves up a spot then Sproul and Marchenko battle it out for the last spot. Unless you trade one of Sproul, Marchkenko or Jensen before then. Which like I said, makes very little sense because they are all RH'd and that is what Holland is dying to have on his team...

One of them are going to have to go, and that is unfortunate.

Good Lord this messy.

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On a related note... I'd love to see Tim Murray (Sabres GM) completely skunk himself.

His asking prices for...well...just about everyone are ridiculous.

Stewart, Stafford and Enroth(Pending UFAs) are all supposedly worth a 1st and a top prospect.

We all know the price for Myers as well.

Can't blame him for asking ... His price will drop on deadline day

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Av are looking for help at d i believe ?

Colorado - smith and kindl

Buffalo - o'reilly and pulkkinen 2016 2nd round pick

Detroit - myers

Our d

Ericsson kronwall

Myers dekeyser

Quincey ouellet

And we can always trade for another veteran 5-6 dman at the deadline

That might actually work

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Av are looking for help at d i believe ?

Colorado - smith and kindl

Buffalo - o'reilly and pulkkinen 2016 2nd round pick

Detroit - myers

Our d

Ericsson kronwall

Myers dekeyser

Quincey ouellet

And we can always trade for another veteran 5-6 dman at the deadline

Yeah that really doesn't seem unrealistic.

It'd be nice if that happens, but they're so set on mantha or Larkin, I don't think they'd give up myers if they knew he was gonna end up with us.

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Smith and Kindl hardly seems like enough for Colorado to give up O'Reilly.

And I wouldn't give up Smith, Pulkkinen, and a 2nd for Myers. Sure he's big and RH, but he's not very physical, not much of a shot blocker, and his offense has pretty much declined every year. Probably get better production from Pulkkinen on the point.

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Petty isn't as good as Smith. Moving out Smith and Kindl for Petry and Ouellet makes the team worse. Bad trade.

I might take Petry over Smith; his underlying numbers have been good, and that's impressive when you consider the tough minutes he's played for some truly awful Oilers teams. Problem is, he might only be on board for a few months. That's probably a moot point, though, because I don't think we have to give up Smith to get Petry.

Smith and Kindl hardly seems like enough for Colorado to give up O'Reilly.

And I wouldn't give up Smith, Pulkkinen, and a 2nd for Myers. Sure he's big and RH, but he's not very physical, not much of a shot blocker, and his offense has pretty much declined every year. Probably get better production from Pulkkinen on the point.

Yeah, the Avs could do way better than Smith and Kindl (especially if it's the Wings. They're not going to take our expendables.) And I'm not sure that's the kind of defenseman they want in the first place. They need some steady, solid, dependable types. They've already got a couple great young offensive defensemen in Barrie and Johnson...who are both...right-hand shots. *cough*

As for Myers...I've done my devil's advocate bit concerning him and why he'd be a good add for us. But, at the end of the day, I'm not willing to give up a whole lot for him. A reasonable three-piece package? Perhaps. But Murray's not going to want anything reasonable, unless he's really souring on Myers and he feels that moving him could help accelerate the Sabres' rebuild.

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idk I mean Every one of our d has been playing pretty decent this year but I still would rather have a rh shot on the pp so I for sure would be up for taking petry or Green idk how we could pull it off


Smith, Kindl, Pulkkinen and a 2nd round pick for Tylerf****** Myers? That was a joke right? People agreeing that this is a reasonable deal, are joking right?...

I agree Krsmith there is no way that is worth it Pulkkinen is coming in to his own and will be a massive asset to us for sure giving him up for someone who might not prove to e a good choice is scary along with smith? if that's the case id rather try that trade for Yandle despite that his a lefty

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Pulkinnen is being severely over rated here.

ahhhhhhh I don't know Dickie his been sorta under the radar yes but he could be one of those late bloomers that really tacks on goals like tats and goose

Edited by sjr2012

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