Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Pulk will do great. I can remember when we were accused of overrating Nyquist and Tatar...they are both on pace to be our first 30 goal scorer not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg since Hossa.

[nawein 324]

I thought of a weird scenario today in which we landed Yandle and Zidlicky. Kindl and a third for Zidlicky, and Smith, Helm and Pulkkinen for Yandle and a third. Someone please tell me if I've completely lost my mind or if that could work.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Smith and Kindl hardly seems like enough for Colorado to give up O'Reilly.

And I wouldn't give up Smith, Pulkkinen, and a 2nd for Myers. Sure he's big and RH, but he's not very physical, not much of a shot blocker, and his offense has pretty much declined every year. Probably get better production from Pulkkinen on the point.

O'reilly is making 6 million per year , there's no way he stays longterm in Colorado... He's nowhere near worth that price

And some people are saying Brendan smith is good , why isn't he good enough for Colorado? With that young explosive offence I'd think he'd do better there than detroit ... We can always throw a mid prospect if need be

As for myers I do believe the redwings are higher on him than the other dmen and I must say I feel the same way

Defensemen take longer to develop and the fact he's been in a horrible buffalo team for years couldn't of helped him , I do think joining detroit would get him going again , how's he suppose to rack up the points if the team as a whole cant score?

I think he'd do great things in detroit

And as for pulkkinen ... The redwings already got Tatar nyquist jurco sheahan glendening all 25 and under upfront

Mantha athanasiou bertuzzi holmstrom natasiuk janmark larkin and others coming soon enough

How we gonna fit in pulkkinen?

He will be used as trade bait by the deadline

Edited January 8, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[sjr2012 439]

O'reilly is making 6 million per year , there's no way he stays longterm in Colorado... He's nowhere near worth that price

And some people are saying Brendan smith is good , why isn't he good enough for Colorado? With that young explosive offence I'd think he'd do better there than detroit ... We can always throw a mid prospect if need be

As for myers I do believe the redwings are higher on him than the other dmen and I must say I feel the same way

Defensemen take longer to develop and the fact he's been in a horrible buffalo team for years couldn't of helped him , I do think joining detroit would get him going again , how's he suppose to rack up the points if the team as a whole cant score?

I think he'd do great things in detroit

And as for pulkkinen ... The redwings already got Tatar nyquist jurco sheahan glendening all 25 and under upfront

Mantha athanasiou bertuzzi holmstrom natasiuk janmark larkin and others coming soon enough

How we gonna fit in pulkkinen?

He will be used as trade bait by the deadline

but we know Holland will keep these guys in the minors to overripe wont Pulkkinen be ready before these guys I agree he would be a good trade piece I just saying

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think Holland is going to stand pat. He'll let every one come to camp next season, retain Andersson (because asset management) and Pulkkinen will be the 14th forward, having to earn his spot a la Tatar.

I mean, I hope Andersson goes the way of Emmerton, but who knows. FWIW, this isn't a criticism of Holland, so much as it is me predicting how it will all shake out.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I usually agree with you Dickie, but I can't disagree with you more on this one. Be honest, how many Griffins games do you watch? I've watched a ton, probably 80% of them over the past few seasons and Pulkkinen is proving to be the real thing. I was skeptical of him as well, even as recent as 8 or so months ago. He has by far the best shot in the entire American League and would definitely rival some of the best shooters in the National League. He is a very under rated passer and has been above average defensively this season as well. He is a right handed shot, which as we all know, Detroit are in desperate need for. If anything, I think Pulkkinen is being severely under rated by some on here, and apparently you are one of them...

[krsmith17 7,191]

Also, I don't get why Pulkkinen is the guy everyone is throwing in trade scenarios. I get that we have a ton of other guys coming but he should be one of the last guys we consider trading at this point in my opinion.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Smith, Kindl, Pulkkinen and a 2nd round pick for Tylerf****** Myers? That was a joke right? People agreeing that this is a reasonable deal, are joking right?...

This is the most reasonable post you've ever made. Tyler Myers is ******* terrible. It drives me crazy how overrated the guy is. People go nuts for him because he's A) Huge, B) Not a Red Wing. He's trash.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Agreed. But I'm not sure where that first part came from? Sounds kind of insulting actually lol. Considering you "like" a lot of what I post, except, of course, when I talk up Smith...

[kipwinger 8,520]

Agreed. But I'm not sure where that first part came from? Sounds kind of insulting actually lol. Considering you "like" a lot of what I post, except, of course, when I talk up Smith...

I wasn't trying to be insulting. You're just the only other person who actively scoffs at the thought of spending any real assets on Myers.

And actually this is the only instance in which I'm ok with talking up Smith. Sure, I think he's terrible, and dumb, and overrated, and ultimately disappointing. But so is Tyler Myers. And he makes 5 million dollars a year because he a "super frickin' huge guy".

To me, trading Smith for Myers is a lot like trading Smith for a bigger, slower, more expensive, less offensively productive, version of himself.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Also, I don't get why Pulkkinen is the guy everyone is throwing in trade scenarios. I get that we have a ton of other guys coming but he should be one of the last guys we consider trading at this point in my opinion.

He should be, but how likely are one of those other guys to be moved? It's not Holland's style to move people unless he absolutely has to, and when some of those other guys are Mule, Weiss and Helm, there are some obstacles in the way. With next season in mind, my must/should keep around guys up front are:

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Abdelkader

Tatar-Datsyuk-?

Jurco-Sheahan-?

Miller-Glendening-?

One of those question marks is Mule, one is Helm/Weiss and one is Cleary/Andersson. For me, they're assets worth looking into moving because they're not playing their role as other could, or because they're a bit redundant, IMO.

Believe me, I think Mule should be the expendable winger, because the wingers on the team now are younger, faster, etc. and I'd rather his spot be filled than theirs. With Weiss/Helm, I think it makes sense to keep one, not both. We've got Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Sheahan down the middle, so we really only need one who can shift to center from wing when the need arises. When Datsyuk leaves, we'll definitely need someone to help with the transition. That leaves Andersson and Cleary... I think it's clear what Holland should do with those two.

I guess my point is, it's easy to see which other guys should be traded, but how likely is it? Factor in their contracts (Mule, Weiss) and what they mean to this team beyond statistics (Helm). How likely is it that Holland wants to stick with "proven commodities", as opposed to making a spot for Pulkkinen, Mantha, etc.

As I said before this, I truly believe Pulkkinen's spot next year is as 13th/14th forward, based on what Holland decides to do with Andersson. Technically, Holland doesn't have to make any real decisions until next off-season, when Helm, Abdelkader and Miller are UFA. By then, I'm sure we'll all be going bonkers for Mantha and AA. The reality is, I'd like Holland to be progressive, instead of letting the team hit training camp, and reacting to who looks best... but he certainly doesn't have to be.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree with everything you're saying there, I just think Pulkkinen, being out of options next year, should be in that 3rd line wing spot. But I also agree that he is most likely to be the 13th forward to start next season, and he will have to "earn" his spot in the lineup. My point though, is that he should not be the odd man out when talking about up and coming prospects being dealt in a trade. He has an element to his game that no one else has. His shot alone is reason enough not to trade him in my opinion. The more I think about it, the more I would be okay with Holland standing pat at the deadline. An upgrade on defense would be welcomed for sure, but a 2nd pairing guy, giving up a lower end roster player, middling prospect and a pick, rather than a top pairing guy, giving up guys we would possibly end up regretting...

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I wasn't trying to be insulting. You're just the only other person who actively scoffs at the thought of spending any real assets on Myers.

And actually this is the only instance in which I'm ok with talking up Smith. Sure, I think he's terrible, and dumb, and overrated, and ultimately disappointing. But so is Tyler Myers. And he makes 5 million dollars a year because he a "super frickin' huge guy".

To me, trading Smith for Myers is a lot like trading Smith for a bigger, slower, more expensive, less offensively productive, version of himself.

Hey now, I suggested Mule, Smith, right to Backman and a 2nd rounder. I know you've gotta be OK with half of the assets in that offer, so I should get half credit.

"Fine, one an a half people. Jesusberg is half a person."

There, we're good now.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I agree with everything you're saying there, I just think Pulkkinen, being out of options next year, should be in that 3rd line wing spot. But I also agree that he is most likely to be the 13th forward to start next season, and he will have to "earn" his spot in the lineup. My point though, is that he should not be the odd man out when talking about up and coming prospects being dealt in a trade. He has an element to his game that no one else has. His shot alone is reason enough not to trade him in my opinion. The more I think about it, the more I would be okay with Holland standing pat at the deadline. An upgrade on defense would be welcomed for sure, but a 2nd pairing guy, giving up a lower end roster player, middling prospect and a pick, rather than a top pairing guy, giving up guys we would possibly end up regretting...

As do I, but I felt that way about Tatar last year, too. My issue with going into next season with the roster that I outlined, is that if Pulu does make it to 3rd line RW, that likely means someone is struggling or injured. I'd just like Holland to try and cash in on value for some of the guys I mentioned ASAP, before it declines. We're going to have to make the room, anyway. It's a bit annoying that he can stand pat for at least another year. Honestly, I think he's in a bad situation with the defenders right now, and he still hasn't made a move.

I understand what you're saying in that last sentence, that it would be risky to lose assets. I'm of the mindset that we need to upgrade the defense now, though. I wouldn't hate if they just kind of let it work itself out, but I think it carries its own risks, too. We don't make a move now and find out what we've got in Ouellet, Jensen, Sproul and Marchenko... but what if they don't pan out? I'm not anti-Smith, I think you know that... but in order to be a top 4 guy that this team needs, he's going to have to show more. Is Babcock going to put him in a situation where he can chalk up some numbers? I don't know.

Put Smith, Kindl and a forward or two in a package to get a top 4 guy, keep Smith and hope he and the prospects pan out... both options carry risk, IMO.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Hey now, I suggested Mule, Smith, right to Backman and a 2nd rounder. I know you've gotta be OK with half of the assets in that offer, so I should get half credit.

"Fine, one an a half people. Jesusberg is half a person."

There, we're good now.

I'd still not make that trade. I don't care about Mule, Smith, Backman's rights, or the 2nd. I just think Myers is horrible. I wouldn't spend almost anything on him. He's a #1 defenseman who's not great offensively...or defensively. He makes bad decisions, and he's "got good mobility"...but only in straight lines. He has no lateral mobility at all, so he's too slow to man the point on our powerplay. AND he's got the worst corsi relative rating in the league. Add to that the fact that almost everyone plays worse under Babcock than they do elsewhere, and it's a recipe for disaster. You think he's going to improve his production under Babs?

He's trash...very expensive trash. Like the Kardashians.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I get that but I prefer the wait and see approach myself, unless of course, like I said, if Holland can pull off a trade without including any of the untouchables.

I know this isn't a very popular opinion around here but Smith should be on that untouchable list, in my opinion... Keep your mouth shut Kip, we all know how you feel...

Echolalia made a great post in last night's GDT. I'm not sure if you read it, but I agree 100%

I can't link for whatever reason but it's on page 10 of last night's GDT, regarding Smith's development.

[kipwinger 8,520]

I get that but I prefer the wait and see approach myself, unless of course, like I said, if Holland can pull off a trade without including any of the untouchables.

I know this isn't a very popular opinion around here but Smith should be on that untouchable list, in my opinion... Keep your mouth shut Kip, we all know how you feel...

Echolalia made a great post in last night's GDT. I'm not sure if you read it, but I agree 100%

I can't link for whatever reason but it's on page 10 of last night's GDT, regarding Smith's development.

Dude, Smith untouchable? Not Dekeyser, who is MILES better in every facet of the game...but Smith? You've lost it.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

The issue with Smith being "untouchable" is that simply moving Kindl and other spare parts only replaces Kindl on the blueline, keeping XO on the outside looking in. So if it's stand pat with what we have, I don't think it can also be "make a trade without using the untouchables." There simply isn't the room to do so.

You really wouldn't move Smith in a package deal for Green (let's assume he's willing to re-sign here) or Yandle?

[krsmith17 7,191]

@kipwinger. Yup, in fact, I said trade the whole defense core and just keep Smith... Where did I say that DeKeyser or Kronwall are not untouchables?...

I think on the current roster we have three untouchables, and they are the three mentioned above. On the farm, I only have one untouchable, Sproul. You have a different opinion? Okay, I'm sure a lot of others do as well...

Edited January 8, 2015 by krsmith17

[krsmith17 7,191]

@Jesusberg. No, I would not trade Smith for Green in the current situation, and I'd still be very hesitant, even if we knew he would resign. I would trade Smith for Yandle although it would obviously take more than that.

When anyone uses the word "untouchable", it doesn't mean, they wouldn't trade said player in any circumstance. Of course I would trade Smith for Weber or Stamkon, etc, etc, or Yandle... But I mean, in a Holland trade, yes Smith is untouchable for me...

Edited January 8, 2015 by krsmith17

[rick zombo 3,739]

@Jesusberg. No, I would not trade Smith for Green in the current situation, and I'd still be very hesitant, even if we knew he would resign. I would trade Smith for Yandle although it would obviously take more than that.

When anyone uses the word "untouchable", it doesn't mean, they wouldn't trade said player in any circumstance. Of course I would trade Smith for Weber or Stamkon, etc, etc, or Yandle... But I mean, in a Holland trade, yes Smith is untouchable for me...

Smith for Yandle and Hanzal then?

[krsmith17 7,191]

I was talking about on our end... It would take Smith plus whatever else to get Yandle...

[rick zombo 3,739]

I was talking about on our end... It would take Smith plus whatever else to get Yandle...

I know. I was being facetious. Sorry.

[Dabura 12,207]

http://www.macombdaily.com/sports/20150105/wings-lack-production-along-the-blue-line

“I guess my point is you limit yourself,” Babcock said. “We don’t have a dynamic offensive guy on the back. Kronwall’s a real good high-end player, but he’s never been (Erik) Karlsson, for example, or any of those kinds of guys. That’s just what it is.”

[Dabura 12,207]

Ekman-Larsson just scored his eleventh goal of the season. One of the few players I'd give up Tatar to get.