Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[greenrebellion 415]

Smith needs to up the truculence in his game before I become a believer.

[kipwinger 8,524]

For me to be a believer, all he has to do is score. That's it. He has to do EXACTLY what he was drafted to do, and I'll like Brendan Smith. It's not like I'm being punitive by expecting him to score. For comparisons sake, I won't be impressed with Teemu Pulkinnen if he turns into a real good defensive forward and penalty killer.

[greenrebellion 415]

For me to be a believer, all he has to do is score. That's it. He has to do EXACTLY what he was drafted to do, and I'll like Brendan Smith. It's not like I'm being punitive by expecting him to score. For comparisons sake, I won't be impressed with Teemu Pulkinnen if he turns into a real good defensive forward and penalty killer.

Hopefully that 100mph slapper he unleashed the other day is a sign of things to come.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Hopefully that 100mph slapper he unleashed the other day is a sign of things to come.

Well, getting to play his natural side should help increase his production so we'll see. I sure hope it helps anyway. But I'm cautious. Both Quincey and Ericsson play their off sides and produce more, despite having a much more limited offensive skill set, and not playing much more 5 on5 (and no more power play).

[e_prime 1,936]

You two must've missed "The Continued Growth of Brendan Smith" during the first intermission of the last game against the Panthers...

Is this a multi-part series that goes something along the lines of: Him "fighting his father, losing his hand," then "mastering the force," and finally, "defeating the dark-side/father/emperor?"

[matt198913 932]

Loved Franson in Nashville, like him a bit in TO. Find a way to pick him up for a 2nd or 3rd plus Ferraro and I'm all in. He would be a sucess in Detroit

Edited February 4, 2015 by matt198913

[LeftWinger 4,959]

I would think it may take a bit more than Ferraro to land Franson. (easy kip, I am not going to mention anything about underpayment, )

Seriously though, if they are asking for a 2nd and a really good prospect, maybe we could send the 2nd and Marchenko or Jensen? If you had to then add Ferraro-ish type player to maybe up the bid a little, that would be good too. Holland could address the D log jam over the summer.

[joesuffP 1,746]

I don't want Franson for close to 7 mil per... I'd rather the better offensive defensemen for 5 with a guarantee that he'll have a few years here

[WingsallTheway 383]

I don't think Franson will cost too much. Toronto is going nowhere fast and they will lost him next season.

IMO:

2nd/1st does the trick.

[joesuffP 1,746]

With the log jam of prospects ready to make a jump to the NHL handing a guy like Franson a huge contract isn't such a smart move. With Yandle, we get a cheap contract with just a couple years left. Franson will have to be a corner stone of our defense for 6+ years if hopefully, he allows us to win the bidding war that's sure to happen.

[WingsallTheway 383]

With the log jam of prospects ready to make a jump to the NHL handing a guy like Franson a huge contract isn't such a smart move. With Yandle, we get a cheap contract with just a couple years left. Franson will have to be a corner stone of our defense for 6+ years if hopefully, he allows us to win the bidding war that's sure to happen.

Franson isn't worth anything more than 5M so any GM who wants to offer something like 7M/6years should go right ahead lol

Saying this because Holland likely won't, but another GM certainly would

I'd still be okay with a trade that doesn't kill us later but lands Franson as a rental

Edited February 4, 2015 by WingsallTheway

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Rumored price was 2nd + mid-level prospect, but now it seems more likely to be a late 1st. Not sure I think Franson is worth that, especially in a deeper draft.

Although, I really don't think Franson is going to command near 7 million. He asked Toronto for 5, so on the open market he'll land north of 5, but I can't see 7 at all - and not sure about the term. I understand the hesitation in adding another body to the back-end, though. We're going into next season with six NHL ready guys for sure, with the possibility of Ouellet or Marchenko as the 7th guy. If Detroit can find a place for Kindl, I'll be much more receptive to adding another defender.

[greenrebellion 415]

Loved Franson in Nashville, like him a bit in TO. Find a way to pick him up for a 2nd or 3rd plus Ferraro and I'm all in. He would be a sucess in Detroit

Why do people keep throwing Ferraro into trade offers? He cleared waivers this year, any team could have had him for free. No one wanted him. He does not add value to a trade offer.

[e_prime 1,936]

Why do people keep throwing Ferraro into trade offers? He cleared waivers this year, any team could have had him for free. No one wanted him. He does not add value to a trade offer.

...because Toronto (fans) likes players with name recognition?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Why do people keep throwing Ferraro into trade offers? He cleared waivers this year, any team could have had him for free. No one wanted him. He does not add value to a trade offer.

Because Toronto fans (on more than one occasion) have specifically suggested that either Ferraro or Callahan be paired with the 2nd rounder. Means nothing in terms of actual value or what's going to happen, but it was something mentioned a few times.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I want nothing to do with having franson here signed longterm(5-6 yrs) with all our defensive prospects coming ip and the fact that he's not a top pairing dman

If it's not too much I don't care if he's a rental ... Just sucks we already lost our 3rd round pick and mostly our 2nd now ... Too bad they wouldn't want a kindl with a middle of the pack prospect

[kipwinger 8,524]

I want nothing to do with having franson here signed longterm(5-6 yrs) with all our defensive prospects coming ip and the fact that he's not a top pairing dman

If it's not too much I don't care if he's a rental ... Just sucks we already lost our 3rd round pick and mostly our 2nd now ... Too bad they wouldn't want a kindl with a middle of the pack prospect

What are the odds that all three of our righty defense prospects are going to be as good as Franson? So why wouldn't you sign him and just get rid of the worst one of them? I get that we all like our prospects and that we shouldn't just throw them away, but when we're hanging on to them just for the sake of hanging on to them, it's pretty silly. Cody Franson is more offensively capable than any defenseman on our team other than Kronwall (though, maybe him too). He's 27 years old, and still seems to be trending up. You'd let him walk on the off chance that one of our defense prospects will one day be better than he is? I'll throw Nick Jensen down a well right now for a righty defenseman who can score 50 pts.

[WingsallTheway 383]

What are the odds that all three of our righty defense prospects are going to be as good as Franson? So why wouldn't you sign him and just get rid of the worst one of them? I get that we all like our prospects and that we shouldn't just throw them away, but when we're hanging on to them just for the sake of hanging on to them, it's pretty silly. Cody Franson is more offensively capable than any defenseman on our team other than Kronwall (though, maybe him too). He's 27 years old, and still seems to be trending up. You'd let him walk on the off chance that one of our defense prospects will one day be better than he is? I'll throw Nick Jensen down a well right now for a righty defenseman who can score 50 pts.

Absurd.

Rest of the statement I agree

edit: My terrible spelling of the word absurd

Edited February 4, 2015 by WingsallTheway

[kipwinger 8,524]

I don't want Franson for close to 7 mil per... I'd rather the better offensive defensemen for 5 with a guarantee that he'll have a few years here

Cody Franson isn't going to get 7 million per. This is exactly the same crap that the media said about Matt Niskanen. They literally said he'd get 7-7.5 million per. He didn't. He got 5.75 million. If Cody Franson gets 7 million per, I'll donate 500 dollars to a charity of your choice. If he gets 6 million, I'll donate 100 dollars to a charity of your choice. If he gets 5.5 million or less, I'll be right.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Absurd.

Rest of the statement I agree

edit: My terrible spelling of the word absurd

It's not that absurd. In their first 5 seasons, Kronwall score at .46 points per game, and Franson scored .41 points per game. That's a difference of 4 points over an 82 game season. My guess is, that this tiny difference in points can probably be attributed to the relative differences in the quality of the teams they've played for.

Kronwall played on two Stanley Cup finalist teams and 2 other President's trophy winning teams in his first five years.

And Cody Franson played for Nashville and Toronto.

[WingsallTheway 383]

It's not that absurd. In their first 5 seasons, Kronwall score at .46 points per game, and Franson scored .41 points per game. That's a difference of 4 points over an 82 game season. My guess is, that this tiny difference in points can probably be attributed to the relative differences in the quality of the teams they've played for.

Kronwall played on two Stanley Cup finalist teams and 2 other President's trophy winning teams in his first five years.

And Cody Franson played for Nashville and Toronto.

There is more to offence then points.

Ill take Kronwall over Franson on the PP any day. Kronwall is a VERY underrated playmaker in the offensive zone. Ill also take Kronwall in my own end to make the first pass 100 percent of the time.

Of course, there is no argument that Kronwall is better than Franson defensively.

Seriously though, when was the last time a player left the wings and didn't increase their point totals? (Brunner ) If Franson comes here you can expect him to lose 20-30% of that point total, just like any other FA in recent history who came here, other than Hossa

Edited February 4, 2015 by WingsallTheway

[greenrebellion 415]

There is more to offence then points.

Ill take Kronwall over Franson on the PP any day. Kronwall is a VERY underrated playmaker in the offensive zone. Ill also take Kronwall in my own end to make the first pass 100 percent of the time.

Of course, there is no argument that Kronwall is better than Franson defensively.

Seriously though, when was the last time a player left the wings and didn't increase their point totals? (Brunner ) If Franson comes here you can expect him to lose 20-30% of that point total, just like any other FA in recent history who came here, other than Hossa

Interesting point, look at Quincey's numbers outside of a Wings uniform and with a Wings uniform. The difference is stark.

[kipwinger 8,524]

There is more to offence then points.

Ill take Kronwall over Franson on the PP any day. Ill also take Kronwall in my own end to make the first pass 100 percent of the time.

Of course, there is no argument that Kronwall is better than Franson defensively.

Seriously though, when was the last time a player left the wings and didn't increase their point totals? (Brunner ) If Franson comes here you can expect him to lose 20-30% of that point total, just like any other FA in recent history who came here other than Hossa

You're making a few pretty dubious statements here.

Firstly, saying "there's more to offense than points", while true, immediately discounts the MOST IMPORTANT part of offense...points. Sure there's more, but scoring points is the central part of offense. That's as silly as saying that there's more to defense than stopping points.

Secondly, Filppula, J. Williams, Miller, Brunner, Snyder, Rafalski, and Hudler had their career high point totals in Detroit. Likewise, neither Bertuzzi or Alfredsson saw their points fall after coming to Detroit from other teams. Tomas Kopecky saw his production increase on a Stanley Cup team in Chicago (the same point I'm currently making about Franson coming to a better team), but it has since leveled off to the same production he had in Detroit. Weiss has been hurt so you can't really tell. The guys I can think of off the top of my head, whose production was worse in Detroit than elsewhere, were Kyle Quincey, Marian Hossa, Brad Stuart, Patrick Eaves, Ville Leino, and Robert Lang. So I'd say it's a mixed bag...at best.

Thirdly, don't be too excited to reject standard offensive measures (point totals) for "other offensive measures". Cody Franson has better fancy stats than Kronwall too. His Corsi and Fenwick are higher than Kronwall's, suggesting that he has a greater influence on his entire team's offense than does Kronwall.

Finally, who cares about Kronwall's defense? I didn't say Franson was a better player. I said he's better offensively than all of our defensemen accept Kronwall (but maybe Kronwall too). Between his points and fancy stats I'd say I"ve made the case that he's close to Kronwall (or slightly above) offensively.

Interesting point, look at Quincey's numbers outside of a Wings uniform and with a Wings uniform. The difference is stark.

See above.

Edited February 4, 2015 by kipwinger

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

What are the odds that all three of our righty defense prospects are going to be as good as Franson? So why wouldn't you sign him and just get rid of the worst one of them? I get that we all like our prospects and that we shouldn't just throw them away, but when we're hanging on to them just for the sake of hanging on to them, it's pretty silly. Cody Franson is more offensively capable than any defenseman on our team other than Kronwall (though, maybe him too). He's 27 years old, and still seems to be trending up. You'd let him walk on the off chance that one of our defense prospects will one day be better than he is? I'll throw Nick Jensen down a well right now for a righty defenseman who can score 50 pts.

Did you consider that maybe franson has more pts cause the leafs defense sucks so he gets a lot of playing time? Power play time? Who else are the leafs gonna put?reilly is just a kid , gardiner is over hyped ... Dion isn't good offensively .. I'm sure if we checked franson's pts came mostly on the ppl and with the kessel line when they were actually scoring

If he was so good why isn't the leafs willing to give him 5-5.5 a year for 5-6 years?

For a rental I'd take him but to have him at that price for that long I'll most definetly pass ... He's not a top pairing dman

[kipwinger 8,524]

Did you consider that maybe franson has more pts cause the leafs defense sucks so he gets a lot of playing time? Power play time? Who else are the leafs gonna put?reilly is just a kid , gardiner is over hyped ... Dion isn't good offensively .. I'm sure if we checked franson's pts came mostly on the ppl and with the kessel line when they were actually scoring

If he was so good why isn't the leafs willing to give him 5-5.5 a year for 5-6 years?

For a rental I'd take him but to have him at that price for that long I'll most definetly pass ... He's not a top pairing dman

He plays on their second pair and runs their second power play. The EXACT same things he'd do here. I'm not sure what you think he does for them/what you think he'd be doing for us?

If I'm following you correctly, you're suggesting that Cody Franson's points MAY be inflated because he gets powerplay time and plays with an offensively gifted player (Kessel). That's reasonable. But then it stands to reason that if powerplays and better offense inflate stats, his number would be better in Detroit...since we've got a better powerplay, better team offense, and a (currently) better individual goal scorer than Kessel.

Edited February 4, 2015 by kipwinger