Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[kipwinger 8,524]

Honestly if Franson did get traded here and then signed long term, I could pretend that it was the same Franson the entire time and pretend the horrible Choice never happened. He would for sure make me forget about the other guy...

Do you find it even remotely ironic that the guy who supposed wants to "pretend the horrible Choice never happened" is also the same guy who won't shut up about it?

Edited February 5, 2015 by kipwinger

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

I don't think Kenny's going to do anything.

Probably not. But it's fun to pretend.

[krsmith17 7,191]

LeftWinger, Kip asked me the same question a few pages back and I'll tell you the same thing I told him. Yes, I would absolutely trade Smith, plus for Franson, IF we knew he would re-sign. There's no way I trade Smith for Franson or any other pending UFA defenseman though, unless it was 100% certain that they would re-sign here.

nyquististhefuture, so let me get this straight... You think Kindl is the only player on the Wings that Franson is better than? Give me a break. He would step onto this team, instantly being one of our top defenders... Why not wait for a real number one to become available? Because a real number one will never be made available in free agency, nor will they be available via trade, unless you're going to ridiculously overpay. Let's just say a guy like Pietrangelo becomes "available", would you be willing to give up Smith, Sproul, Mantha and a pick? I certainly wouldn't. We could potentially have a second tier defender as good as Franson (and yes, he is a really good 2/3 defenseman) without giving up any of that, maybe just a 2nd round pick and a mid-level prospect... Like you said, realistically we have Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Smith here for the long term, we have Quincey for another year, and we add Franson now, that's 6. Then we add in one of Sproul or Ouellet after next season, unless one of them beat out a defender (unlikely) or we get an injury or two (likely)... What's not to like about that? That is a legit blue line.

[Bannedforlife 403]

Do you find it even remotely ironic that the guy who supposed wants to "pretend the horrible Choice never happened" is also the same guy who won't shut up about it?

Delightful

[e_prime 1,936]

Why not wait for a real number one to become available? Because a real number one will never be made available in free agency, nor will they be available via trade, unless you're going to ridiculously overpay.

You mean current deadline defensemen options -- rental or otherwise in Sekera, Petry, Zidlicky, Green, Myers, and Yandle aren't number ones either? (They're not.)

...and neither is Staal, Boychuk, Martin, Ehrhoff, Methot, Oduya, Michalek, Beauchemin, Mezaros? (NOPE. None of these guys either!)

All sarcasm aside, I'm with you on this man! We don't need a number one! We need a solid RH, puck moving 2/3/4 guy that will compliment what we already have on the team. Franson would be ideal if the price is right!

Certainly, it's everyone's right to have an opinion otherwise, but I'm unsure why you'd really be against it.

Do you find it even remotely ironic that the guy who supposed wants to "pretend the horrible Choice never happened" is also the same guy who won't shut up about it?

Not surprising.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

LeftWinger, Kip asked me the same question a few pages back and I'll tell you the same thing I told him. Yes, I would absolutely trade Smith, plus for Franson, IF we knew he would re-sign. There's no way I trade Smith for Franson or any other pending UFA defenseman though, unless it was 100% certain that they would re-sign here.

nyquististhefuture, so let me get this straight... You think Kindl is the only player on the Wings that Franson is better than? Give me a break. He would step onto this team, instantly being one of our top defenders... Why not wait for a real number one to become available? Because a real number one will never be made available in free agency, nor will they be available via trade, unless you're going to ridiculously overpay. Let's just say a guy like Pietrangelo becomes "available", would you be willing to give up Smith, Sproul, Mantha and a pick? I certainly wouldn't. We could potentially have a second tier defender as good as Franson (and yes, he is a really good 2/3 defenseman) without giving up any of that, maybe just a 2nd round pick and a mid-level prospect... Like you said, realistically we have Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Smith here for the long term, we have Quincey for another year, and we add Franson now, that's 6. Then we add in one of Sproul or Ouellet after next season, unless one of them beat out a defender (unlikely) or we get an injury or two (likely)... What's not to like about that? That is a legit blue line.

If he is a really good 2/3 then why is toronto of all teams refusing to give him the contract you think we should give him?

As I said before I'm all for the rental ... I'm not willing to handcuff ourselves to that money and length of contract is all , on this team I don't think our coaching staff will see him ahead of kronwall Ericsson and dekeyser

Yes dekeyser doesn't have his offensive numbers but he's younger and I think his overall game is better and he will be ahead of franson when he's 27-28 ... Smith is starting to get things going and ouellet has a lot of upside (reminds me of vlasic from sj, won't out up big numbers but solid dependable d) and ouellet and smith doesn't cost us 5-6 per for 5-6 yrs

[Dabura 12,207]

The Preds are rumored to be looking for a defenseman. So...Weber, Josi, Jones, Ellis, Ekholm, and then add, say, Franson. And then look at our blue line, assuming we don't add anyone. And then cry.

[kipwinger 8,524]

If he is a really good 2/3 then why is toronto of all teams refusing to give him the contract you think we should give him?

As I said before I'm all for the rental ... I'm not willing to handcuff ourselves to that money and length of contract is all , on this team I don't think our coaching staff will see him ahead of kronwall Ericsson and dekeyser

Yes dekeyser doesn't have his offensive numbers but he's younger and I think his overall game is better and he will be ahead of franson when he's 27-28 ... Smith is starting to get things going and ouellet has a lot of upside (reminds me of vlasic from sj, won't out up big numbers but solid dependable d) and ouellet and smith doesn't cost us 5-6 per for 5-6 yrs

Toronto does everything absolutely backward. If they aren't giving a guy a contract, that's almost a full fledged endorsement. Seriously, if you use Toronto contract offers (and their worth) to form your impressions of players, then you'd have to conclude David Clarkson and Dion Phaneuf are REALLY good, and Cody Franson is garbage. The actions of David Nonis should never...ever...be a guidepost for accurately formulating opinions. Ever.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Toronto does everything absolutely backward. If they aren't giving a guy a contract, that's almost a full fledged endorsement. Seriously, if you use Toronto contract offers (and their worth) to form your impressions of players, then you'd have to conclude David Clarkson and Dion Phaneuf are REALLY good, and Cody Franson is garbage. The actions of David Nonis should never...ever...be a guidepost for accurately formulating opinions. Ever.

Except it's really shanahan running everything now so your post doesn't apply

[rick zombo 3,739]

The Preds are rumored to be looking for a defenseman. So...Weber, Josi, Jones, Ellis, Ekholm, and then add, say, Franson. And then look at our blue line, assuming we don't add anyone. And then cry.

First off, there's no saying they land Franson

Second off, the Red Wings forward group is at least 3 times better than Nashville's. And they built this without ever sucking, whilst winning cups and making the playoffs. Think about it, there is not one poverty pick on the Wing's roster. Not even close.

Mon frère, if anyone should be crying in this scenario, it should be Preds fans.

Edited February 5, 2015 by rick zombo

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Yeah.

But defense wins championships.

[Dabura 12,207]

Except it's really shanahan running everything now so your post doesn't apply

Franson's in the prime of his career. He's big, reasonably mobile. He can move the puck, score goals, put up points. (This season, he's been good for six goals, 30 points. Kronwall has been good for five goals, 28 points.) He's money on the power play. He can play big minutes against tough competition. He's a top-three defenseman on most teams, the Wings being one of them. We could really use a player like him. The Leafs, not so much. They're in a world of hurt right now because they've made bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. One of those bad decisions: handing Franson two short "show-me" contracts. Had they realized what they really had in him, they would've signed him to a longer deal that covered his first few UFA years.

[Dabura 12,207]

First off, there's no saying they land Franson

I didn't say otherwise.

My point is that Poile wants to upgrade a D corps that's already significantly better than ours and is arguably tops in the league. Poile should probably just be happy to be making the playoffs and being a top team. Instead, he wants to make his team even better, because why not. He wants to Go For It, because why not. Strike while the iron is hot, because why not. That's the approach I feel the Wings should be taking. We've liked our team for several years now, but we haven't made it past the second round in several years. This is the best team we've had in several years and I think we should Go For It, because why not.

I want that top-three defenseman. Without him, we can't win the Cup. Ouellet, Marchenko, and Sproul are all very promising, but not one of them is ready to be that gamechanging piece that puts us over the top.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Dabura

[e_prime 1,936]

Except it's really shanahan running everything now so your post doesn't apply

Actually it applies quite a lot.

Those contracts aren't just null and void because Savior Shanny has come to TOwn.

...and they're not REFUSING to give Franson a huge contract.

Nonis/Shanny/whomever tried offering Franson a multi-year contract for just under $5 million (aprox. what Jake Gardnier is getting)

...because that's what they can afford to offer him.

With the Phaneuf, Clarkson, and Kessel contracts they're stuck. Very little cap flexibility. Hence all the rumors of moving Kessel or Dion.

So it's pretty obvious why they're incapable of offering him more.

Especially if Shanny is trying to fix some of Nonis and Co.'s mistakes.

[e_prime 1,936]

First off, there's no saying they land Franson

Second off, the Red Wings forward group is at least 3 times better than Nashville's. And they built this without ever sucking, whilst winning cups and making the playoffs. Think about it, there is not one poverty pick on the Wing's roster. Not even close.

Mon frère, if anyone should be crying in this scenario, it should be Preds fans.

...and yet here they are tied for the league lead, with more points than the Wings, in the "tougher" Western Conference.

Guess they must be doing sumpthin' right.

[krsmith17 7,191]

nyquististhefuture, first of all, the contract I think we should give him? I never mentioned anything about a contract, salary or term... I think we should give up the minimal assets to get him before the trade deadline, and then if we do happen to land him, we do everything we can to make him happy, by winning hockey games, going deep in the playoffs, and showing him what the Detroit Red Wings organization is all about. Then in the offseason we do whatever we can to re-sign him. I think anywhere from $4.5-5.5M on a 4-6 year contract would get it done, and I absolutely would give him that. I'd even go a little higher, although I don't think it would be necessary.

He is absolutely a very good 2/3 defenseman in the NHL. As for why the Leafs would be giving him up? Because they probably are (should be) in full fire sale mode. The players I would be holding onto if I were them, Bernier, Van Riemsdyk, Kessel, Bozak, Franson and Rielly. Why they're not holding on to Franson? Very simple. They're the Toronto Maple Leafs...

So what, if he isn't "ahead" of any of those guys? (although he is...). Keep Kronwall and Ericsson together and put Franson on the second pair with any of the other three... I would either go with Smith - Franson and DeKeyser - Quincey OR Quincey - Franson and Smith - DeKeyser. No matter what, that's three very solid pairings. A hell of a lot better than it looks right now, and better than it would look with any of our prospects in place of Franson. In no way would we be "handcuffing" ourselves by signing Franson to a contract...

[Smite 399]

Leafs management:

[rick zombo 3,739]

...and yet here they are tied for the league lead, with more points than the Wings, in the "tougher" Western Conference.

Guess they must be doing sumpthin' right.

Hey now, I didn't say the Wings were a better team, or that Nashville shouldn't be congratulated on their campaing so far this season.

It just seemd like, as a Wings fan, Dabura was ready to climb and jump becuase Nashville has such an amazing defence. I was just reminding him that the Wings sometimes have amazing stuff too.

Yeah.

But defense wins championships.

Not for Nashville. Not yet.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Franson's in the prime of his career. He's big, reasonably mobile. He can move the puck, score goals, put up points. (This season, he's been good for six goals, 30 points. Kronwall has been good for five goals, 28 points.) He's money on the power play. He can play big minutes against tough competition. He's a top-three defenseman on most teams, the Wings being one of them. We could really use a player like him. The Leafs, not so much. They're in a world of hurt right now because they've made bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. One of those bad decisions: handing Franson two short "show-me" contracts. Had they realized what they really had in him, they would've signed him to a longer deal that covered his first few UFA years.

Your kidding right? It's all over the sports news all the time here how he loves toronto and how toronto isn't willing to budge from the 4 mill per ballpark , it has nothing to do with past 1 year offers ... if they realize how amazing he is they'd just give him the 5 per longterm and be done with it

And why even bring up kronwall? Kronwall is also what? 7 years older? And he's much better overall than franson is

Actually it applies quite a lot.

Those contracts aren't just null and void because Savior Shanny has come to TOwn.

...and they're not REFUSING to give Franson a huge contract.

Nonis/Shanny/whomever tried offering Franson a multi-year contract for just under $5 million (aprox. what Jake Gardnier is getting)

...because that's what they can afford to offer him.

With the Phaneuf, Clarkson, and Kessel contracts they're stuck. Very little cap flexibility. Hence all the rumors of moving Kessel or Dion.

So it's pretty obvious why they're incapable of offering him more.

Especially if Shanny is trying to fix some of Nonis and Co.'s mistakes.

If he's as good as you think he is they do anything to keep him and trade say a Phaneuf in the off season Edited February 5, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[Dabura 12,207]

We can haz Evander Kane?

[rick zombo 3,739]

Your kidding right? It's all over the sports news all the time here how he loves toronto and how toronto isn't willing to budge from the 4 mill per ballpark , it has nothing to do with past 1 year offers ... if they realize how amazing he is they'd just give him the 5 per longterm and be done with it

And why even bring up kronwall? Kronwall is also what? 7 years older? And he's much better overall than franson is

If he's as good as you think he is they do anything to keep him and trade say a Phaneuf in the off season

Players say that stuff all the time. Plus, I'd take the Toronto "news" with a grain of salt. Unless, of course you're trying to win an arguement.

I agree with you about Kronwall.

Also, it's very naive to think they can just rid themsleves of bad contracts like Phanuef's in order to keep the guys they want. Again, I suspect you're just trying to make your point.

We can haz Evander Kane?

Only the fanniest of trade fan-boys would want any part of a Kane deal.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

nyquististhefuture, first of all, the contract I think we should give him? I never mentioned anything about a contract, salary or term... I think we should give up the minimal assets to get him before the trade deadline, and then if we do happen to land him, we do everything we can to make him happy, by winning hockey games, going deep in the playoffs, and showing him what the Detroit Red Wings organization is all about. Then in the offseason we do whatever we can to re-sign him. I think anywhere from $4.5-5.5M on a 4-6 year contract would get it done, and I absolutely would give him that. I'd even go a little higher, although I don't think it would be necessary.

He is absolutely a very good 2/3 defenseman in the NHL. As for why the Leafs would be giving him up? Because they probably are (should be) in full fire sale mode. The players I would be holding onto if I were them, Bernier, Van Riemsdyk, Kessel, Bozak, Franson and Rielly. Why they're not holding on to Franson? Very simple. They're the Toronto Maple Leafs...

So what, if he isn't "ahead" of any of those guys? (although he is...). Keep Kronwall and Ericsson together and put Franson on the second pair with any of the other three... I would either go with Smith - Franson and DeKeyser - Quincey OR Quincey - Franson and Smith - DeKeyser. No matter what, that's three very solid pairings. A hell of a lot better than it looks right now, and better than it would look with any of our prospects in place of Franson. In no way would we be "handcuffing" ourselves by signing Franson to a contract...

I said I would take him as a rental not longterm at the price it would cost which is what you said 5-5.5 for 5-6 years ... No Thanks

And no offence but just cause you say he's absolutely a 2nd or 3rd nhl defensemen doesn't mean is ... It's your opinion just like my opinion that he's nowhere near a number 2 or 3 ... More like 4-5 on a good team (my opinion)

I love these logics of how the leafs are giving up on franson because there the leafs ... If he's a number 2 they do everything in there power to keep him ... Leafs or not

He reminds me of a james wizniewski ... I recall a lot of people wanted him and he ended up going to Columbus for around 5 per for 5 years? He's not worth the contract and neither will franson , and he will end up on a team that will overpay and a team that has a hard time attracting free agents

If he's traded to the wings at the deadline I see him going with dekeyser on the 2nd pairing ...again personally I'm not willing to give him 5+ Longterm

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Matt Brown ‏@mbrownSN590 22m22 minutes ago

#RedWings are one team NOT interested in #Jets Evander Kane.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

We can haz Evander Kane?

Loads of potential but with his attitude it's a big risk

[rick zombo 3,739]

Matt Brown ‏@mbrownSN590 22m22 minutes ago

#RedWings are one team NOT interested in #Jets Evander Kane.

Ahhhh, but that won't stop the fantasy drool .