Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[Yzerfan87 146]

a hell no to letting any of those go ... Maybe pulkkinen in a big trade for say a larsson .. Wouldn't give ip on ouellet

Well that's a specific contract , I'll say the the ones deserving of big money and long contracts are the obvious ones doughty pietrangelo Keith Subban karlsson etc..

Subban has a $9m hit, Doughty has a $7m, Pietrangelo and Karlsson each are 6.5m. Keith has a sweetheart contract for 5.5. In fact, more than 30 defenseman make well over $5 a season. Franson for $5m is well within his value. Kronwall makes $4.75 though, but he could easily make more.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/defenseman/

Edited February 5, 2015 by Yzerfan87

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Considering the kind of bidding war that may occur for Franson, I don't think that a 2nd + Callahan/Ferraro will be enough.

I do, however, disagree that players who pass through waivers have little to no value. At the point in the season that those two passed through, teams were moving forward with their own prospects and trying to see what they might have to offer. There's a much higher chance that someone puts in a waiver claim during the season than at the beginning of it. Not to mention, if a guy has a solid year, passing through waivers has little to no impact on his value later in the season.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Subban has a $9m hit, Doughty has a $7m, Pietrangelo and Karlsson each are 6.5m. Keith has a sweetheart contract for 5.5. In fact, more than 30 defenseman make well over $5 a season. Franson for $5m is well within his value. Kronwall makes $4.75 though, but he could easily make more.http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/defenseman/

Cool thanks for that man ... Think Subban is getting at least a mill per more than he should and matt carle is thanking god everyday for that contract

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Considering the kind of bidding war that may occur for Franson, I don't think that a 2nd + Callahan/Ferraro will be enough.

I do, however, disagree that players who pass through waivers have little to no value. At the point in the season that those two passed through, teams were moving forward with their own prospects and trying to see what they might have to offer. There's a much higher chance that someone puts in a waiver claim during the season than at the beginning of it. Not to mention, if a guy has a solid year, passing through waivers has little to no impact on his value later in the season.

You MIght be right about the waivers but I don't see them being interested in them

It'll have to be at least someone like frk jensen turgeon ehn ... Someone in the middle of the pact with some potential

Edited February 5, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[number9 3,297]

You MIght be right about the waivers but I don't see them being interested in them

It'll have to be at least someone like frk jensen turgeon ehn ... Someone in the middle of the pact with some potential

Frk and Ehn really have like, like, like no value. How did you manage to come up with this group of players lol?

[krsmith17 7,191]

nyquististhefuture, I still don't get it, I have no idea you're logic on this one. Please explain why you wouldn't want a player like Franson (who is the EXACT type of defenseman this team needs) long term... Is it because of the contract he would likely get? Even at $5.5M for 5-6 years, that is very fair value. He would clearly be one of the top defenders on this team, the moment he came here. Is it because you don't want to bury our promising prospects? Which one of them is even remotely close to being as good as Franson is right now? Not a single one. The only one that even projects to be as good, is Sproul, and he's a long ways away yet. We would have to give up very little to get him here, but a 2nd and a mid-level prospect would be well worth it... I just can't understand how you (and I'm pretty sure you're the only one) wouldn't want Franson on this team... Makes zero sense to me...

[greenrebellion 415]

Considering the kind of bidding war that may occur for Franson, I don't think that a 2nd + Callahan/Ferraro will be enough.

I do, however, disagree that players who pass through waivers have little to no value. At the point in the season that those two passed through, teams were moving forward with their own prospects and trying to see what they might have to offer. There's a much higher chance that someone puts in a waiver claim during the season than at the beginning of it. Not to mention, if a guy has a solid year, passing through waivers has little to no impact on his value later in the season.

You'd be wrong. At most they would have "little" value, if they had more than "no value." What your statement implies is that they could have more than just a little value and actually become a material component of a trade. There is simply no way that 30 NHL teams are going to pass on a guy with serious potential only to re-evaluate the situation a few months later and suddenly ascribe material value to the player.

If you propose a second round pick + a bunch of players that cleared waivers a few months ago, that is in reality just an offer for a 2nd round pick...and that simply is not going to get a player of Franson's caliber.

Edited February 5, 2015 by greenrebellion

[Jesusberg 1,256]

You'd be wrong. At most they would have "little" value, if they had more than "no value." What your statement implies is that they could have more than just a little value and actually become a material component of a trade. There is simply no way that 30 NHL teams are going to pass on a guy with serious potential only to re-evaluate the situation a few months later and suddenly ascribe material value to the player.

If you propose a second round pick + a bunch of players that cleared waivers a few months ago, that is in reality just an offer for a 2nd round pick...and that simply is not going to get a player of Franson's caliber.

So, Jacob Markstrom has no value? I'd be willing to wager that he has some value on the market. At the very least, it's to a point where the Canucks have said they're not willing to deal him.

I stated in my post that I don't think those two pieces would be enough for Toronto to bite on. Going after Franson with Ferraro/Callahan and a 2nd isn't what I'm getting at. It's more going against the idea that a guy waived in October is going to be worth nothing in February. I'm not saying a guy like that is going to tip the scale a significant amount, but they can certainly improve upon their own value and be worth more than they were earlier in the season.

[barabbas16 499]

Frk and Ehn really have like, like, like no value. How did you manage to come up with this group of players lol?

They are the guys in the middle of the pact. He already explained that.

Edited February 6, 2015 by barabbas16

[number9 3,297]

They are they guys in the middle of the pact. He already explained that.

Middle of the pack? Frk and Ehn? Explain that one.

[greenrebellion 415]

So, Jacob Markstrom has no value? I'd be willing to wager that he has some value on the market. At the very least, it's to a point where the Canucks have said they're not willing to deal him.

I stated in my post that I don't think those two pieces would be enough for Toronto to bite on. Going after Franson with Ferraro/Callahan and a 2nd isn't what I'm getting at. It's more going against the idea that a guy waived in October is going to be worth nothing in February. I'm not saying a guy like that is going to tip the scale a significant amount, but they can certainly improve upon their own value and be worth more than they were earlier in the season.

A valid counter example, but it is simply one anamoly amongst a sea of waived players that never have value again (which is the norm).

In order for Markstrom to be analgous to the Wings situation, you'd have to make the case that Ferraro and Callahan have made huge and unexpected improvements in their game this year. This is not the case with either player.

[kipwinger 8,494]

Middle of the pack? Frk and Ehn? Explain that one.

Gotta agree. Strange group of players there. Jensen is at the top of the pack (in that he's going to be in the NHL one day and is close right now), Ehn and Turgeon I'd say are in the middle (just because they haven't had a chance to succeed OR fail yet), and Frk is about as bottom of the pack as you can get (slightly above Mike McKee, but still bottom bottom bottom).

Which sucks, because I always thought Frk would make it. Soooo wrong about that one.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Frk and Ehn really have like, like, like no value. How did you manage to come up with this group of players lol?

They are they guys in the middle of the pact. He already explained that.

Not even close. Pulkkinen and Marchenko are 2nd tier prospects. Frk, Ehn, Callahan, etc are lower than that.

[number9 3,297]

Not even close. Pulkkinen and Marchenko are 2nd tier prospects. Frk, Ehn, Callahan, etc are lower than that.

Only you would call Pulkkinen a 2nd tier prospect lol

[ash11 78]

I think franson gets traded soon to nashville. Nashville and toronto gm's are meeting tonight

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Objectively, Pulkkinen can be viewed as a "2nd tier" prospect. It's not to say he won't be an effective NHL player, because I think he will become one. I can't speak for every one else, but I wouldn't move Mantha, Larkin or Mrazek before moving Pulkkinen.

When you place him next to other prospects in the NHL, (Ekblad, Drouin, Strome) or even guys outside of the NHL, (Reinhart, Bennett, Ehlers) he does seem to fall short. "2nd tier" has a negative connotation attached to it, but I definitely think he's below the "top tier" guys.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Jesusberg

[kipwinger 8,494]

I'm confused by what you guys are talking about when you say 2nd tier. I assumed 1st tier meant closest to being in the NHL, and 3rd tier was furthest away...despite what you're projected to be. So a guy like Callahan, while not having the highest ceiling, is a first tier prospect because he's very close to being in the NHL (though only on the fourth line). Seems like you guys are saying a guy's only first tier if he has a star-like ceiling, in which case Mantha or Larkin would be the only ones. But that's a little tricky because those guys aren't even prospects in the same way a guy like Drouin, Ekblad, Reinheart, or Draisitl are. So are those guys A++++ prospects?

I'm lost.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I'm confused by what you guys are talking about when you say 2nd tier. I assumed 1st tier meant closest to being in the NHL, and 3rd tier was furthest away...despite what you're projected to be. So a guy like Callahan, while not having the highest ceiling, is a first tier prospect because he's very close to being in the NHL (though only on the fourth line). Seems like you guys are saying a guy's only first tier if he has a star-like ceiling, in which case Mantha or Larkin would be the only ones. But that's a little tricky because those guys aren't even prospects in the same way a guy like Drouin, Ekblad, Reinheart, or Draisitl are. So are those guys A++++ prospects?

I'm lost.

Pretty much. I used to write for Hockey's Future, so my view of prospects and how to rank them is forever skewed.

Mostly, I'm saying I can understand Pulkkinen being seen in that light.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Jesusberg

[DickieDunn 2,571]

First tier are projected top 6 forwards, top d pair, starting goalies. Larkin, Mantha, Sproul, Mrazek. Second tier are projected to be good players but there are questions and projections are more 2md/3rd line tweeners, solid second pair d, goalies who might start or might be backups. That's Pulk. Lesser prospects are projected bottom end of the roster guys like we Jensen Callahan and Ferraro, and guys who may or may not be NHL players. These guys have little value. Then there are guys like Frk and Tvrdon who have no trade value and are more or less filler for minor league rosters.

[amato 3,210]

LOL Nash originally traded Franson, along with 3rd liner Matt Lombardi, to TOR for Lebda and Robert Slaney (never played one NHL game).

Leafs did something right for once

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

[greenrebellion 415]

LOL Nash originally traded Franson, along with 3rd liner Matt Lombardi, to TOR for Lebda and Robert Slaney (never played one NHL game).

Leafs did something right for once

If I recall correctly, it was a salary dump move by Nashville and Franson was compensation to Toronto for taking on Lombardi's contract. Lombardi was having concussion issues and was still owed several million dollars. That said, it definitely turned out to be a solid move for Toronto.

Edited February 6, 2015 by greenrebellion

[matt198913 932]

I really feel if they can add Franson then we have a real shot at the cup this year. Teams pretty darn good but he'd be like the Brad Stuart of 2015. Team was very good then added Stewie and never looked back. Get it done

[krsmith17 7,191]

Dickie, I agree with your assessment of what 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier prospects are, and I even get that Pulkkinen may be viewed as a 2nd tier, when being compared to the elite of the elite, but he is definitely high on the 2nd tier. I know you're not that high on him, but he is ripping up the American League, and he will be a quality player in the NHL in a couple years. I expect him to be a 2nd/3rd line winger (depending on depth / line balance), power-play specialist.

[kipwinger 8,494]

Mauling the American league. I think the scientific term for what Pulkkinen is doing is "mauling". Nyquist never produced like that in the AHL. Neither did Tatar. 50 points in 39 games. Yikes.

[number9 3,297]

Pulkkinen is the best player not in the NHL right now (aside from Kovalchuk).

But yeah he's 2nd tier at best...