Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[krsmith17 7,191]

zombo, another point on the whole Franson debate. In this situation, I don't think the Leafs trading Franson to Detroit or any other Eastern Conference team should matter. We don't play the Leafs anymore this season, there's zero chance they make the playoffs, and Franson has the option to go anywhere he wants after this season anyway. A team so far out of a playoff spot trying to trade a player on an expiring contract should just be looking for the best deal, destination shouldn't matter...

[rick zombo 3,739]

zombo, another point on the whole Franson debate. In this situation, I don't think the Leafs trading Franson to Detroit or any other Eastern Conference team should matter. We don't play the Leafs anymore this season, there's zero chance they make the playoffs, and Franson has the option to go anywhere he wants after this season anyway. A team so far out of a playoff spot trying to trade a player on an expiring contract should just be looking for the best deal, destination shouldn't matter...

For sure. I guess it shouldn't be assumed that intra-division trades won't happen. I just figure that if Detroit offers a 2nd and nashville offers a 2nd, that they'll deal him to the Preds.

Edited February 6, 2015 by rick zombo

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Then he shouldn't have gone there in the first place. I never feel bad for anyone that signs with the Leafs. Especially when you're a third line grinder who gets 5+M/per.

Yup It's hard to feel sorry for someone getting paid millions of dollars

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I heard something about colin wilson being involved ... We'll see what happens

Would you say Tatar and nyquist were first tier prospects then? Don't know if anyone would say they were projected to be 30 goal scorers ... I would say pulkkinen is of the same and yet he's only 22 and leading the ahl in scoring so at the least he's a borderline first tier prospect

I think they were border line top end prospects. Lots of skill, but questions about size. Pulk has the same size issue but doesn't skate as well, and is a bit one dimensional even though he does work hard. There's a big difference between how fans of a team view prospects and how those same kids are viewed by other teams.

[kipwinger 8,492]

Am I the only one who thinks that David Clarkson might not be as bad as he's seemed in Toronto? I mean, I don't think he's great, or worth his money. But I don't think he's this bad either. I think he's a good system player, and in the right system he's flourish again. Which underlies a bigger point. What kind of team does Toronto want to be? Do they want to be a big, bruising, half ice team like San Jose, Anaheim, or Boston? If so, keep Dion, JVR, Franson, Reilly, Clarkson, Panik, Winnik and trade or buy out Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, Lupul, Santorelli. If you want to be a skill team, do the opposite. It's like the Maple Leafs are two halves of two VERY different teams.

I think they were border line top end prospects. Lots of skill, but questions about size. Pulk has the same size issue but doesn't skate as well, and is a bit one dimensional even though he does work hard. There's a big difference between how fans of a team view prospects and how those same kids are viewed by other teams.

I agree with this, but I also think, "who cares"? I mean, I don't really give a s*** if other teams and other fans thought Tatar or Nyquist were 2nd tier prospects. The fact that other people don't rate our prospects very high doesn't mean those prospects aren't really good, or better than other people think. You'd think years and years and years of churning out NHL players would get people hip to the fact that our prospects are almost always better than theirs, but if they aren't, oh well. Sure it makes trading a little harder, but we rarely trade anyway, so no harm done.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Am I the only one who thinks that David Clarkson might not be as bad as he's seemed in Toronto? I mean, I don't think he's great, or worth his money. But I don't think he's this bad either. I think he's a good system player, and in the right system he's flourish again. Which underlies a bigger point. What kind of team does Toronto want to be? Do they want to be a big, bruising, half ice team like San Jose, Anaheim, or Boston? If so, keep Dion, JVR, Franson, Reilly, Clarkson, Panik, Winnik and trade or buy out Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, Lupul, Santorelli. If you want to be a skill team, do the opposite. It's like the Maple Leafs are two halves of two VERY different teams.

Yeah the worse halves.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I agree with this, but I also think, "who cares"? I mean, I don't really give a s*** if other teams and other fans thought Tatar or Nyquist were 2nd tier prospects. The fact that other people don't rate our prospects very high doesn't mean those prospects aren't really good, or better than other people think. You'd think years and years and years of churning out NHL players would get people hip to the fact that our prospects are almost always better than theirs, but if they aren't, oh well. Sure it makes trading a little harder, but we rarely trade anyway, so no harm done.

This is why I've been trying to stay away from a certain hockey forum (unsuccessfully lately, but it's the trading season). I generally keep it to myself, but it gets frustrating at times to see Red Wings prospects dismissed over and over again. Realistically, if people can't be bothered to look at Detroit's track record and see the value of some of these guys, then it's on them. It's still annoying, though.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I think they were border line top end prospects. Lots of skill, but questions about size. Pulk has the same size issue but doesn't skate as well, and is a bit one dimensional even though he does work hard. There's a big difference between how fans of a team view prospects and how those same kids are viewed by other teams.

Well to honest with you I am concerned with pulk's overall game and if we had to throw in one of our top prospects in a deal to get a big name id rather it be him

I did see on a show yesterday (think tsn's that's hockey) someone mentioned they'd rather forget about trading for evander kane and go for someone who's tearing up the ahl and no ones talking about and wouldn't cost as much ... So I do think other teams are noticing pulkkinen

I think we can both agree though that we hope pulk is a star in detroit

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I agree with this, but I also think, "who cares"? I mean, I don't really give a s*** if other teams and other fans thought Tatar or Nyquist were 2nd tier prospects. The fact that other people don't rate our prospects very high doesn't mean those prospects aren't really good, or better than other people think. You'd think years and years and years of churning out NHL players would get people hip to the fact that our prospects are almost always better than theirs, but if they aren't, oh well. Sure it makes trading a little harder, but we rarely trade anyway, so no harm done.

Yup being from montreal I get a lot of friends for years trying to convince me to be a habs fan (never gonna happen) and trying to convince me that redwings glory days are over and I keep bringing up the fact that we got all these guys coming up nobody knows about and how everyone's gonna be complaining once again and how we got the next datsyuk and zetterberg

Been praising nyquist and mrazek for a few yrs to friends of mine and how mrazek is our future hasek (yes I know it's too soon but that's how I feel)

Anyways I agree with you , not everyone will turn out to be great but I trust our organization and I believe we got some great people looking after our prospects

Edited February 6, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[Jesusberg 1,256]

zombo, another point on the whole Franson debate. In this situation, I don't think the Leafs trading Franson to Detroit or any other Eastern Conference team should matter. We don't play the Leafs anymore this season, there's zero chance they make the playoffs, and Franson has the option to go anywhere he wants after this season anyway. A team so far out of a playoff spot trying to trade a player on an expiring contract should just be looking for the best deal, destination shouldn't matter...

Sure, but what are the chances Detroit doesn't re-sign him after this season? Have to think that if they're going to move the assets for any bigger name, they're going to do every thing they can to hang onto that guy. He can go anywhere this off-season, but say he's got a chip on his shoulder, and likes the idea of playing against Toronto? Heck, Josh Gorges loved being in Montreal, and was willing to go to Buffalo (he felt going to the Leafs would be too much, but he's still in the division).

You're telling me the Leafs and their fans don't hate having to look at Tuukka Rask's mug four-five times a year? As RZ mentioned, if Toronto can get the same package from a Western Conference team, it would be smarter (for them) to go that route. Less of a chance Franson can bite them in the butt later on. I definitely think the Leafs will want more from Detroit than, say, Anaheim or Los Angeles.

[number9 3,297]

You wouldn't say jensen is middle of the pact on the redwings depth?

I see mantha larkin mrazek athanasiou ouellet sproul pulkkinen bertuzzi nastasiuk marchenko holmstrom janmark backman all ahead of jensen ... That's not middle of the pact ?

I added turgeon and ehn because like you just said they were just drafted and I think might have some value because of that cause they might still have some upside ... Would you say turgeon is a top prospect? Nope but I could see him being a 3rd liner one day

Not saying these types of guys alone will get us big names in a trade but as a throw in they

Want someone like that rather than Ferraro or Callahan who's like 24 and likely a ahl lifer

And for your information I check up on our prospects daily to see how do and watch griffins games when I can ... Detroit hockey prospects on twitter for anyone who wants to check updates everyday

something we agree on

Cool, congratulations on all that, but I'm not arguing with you about who or what is a middle of the pack prospect.

You lumped Jensen, Frk, Ehn, and Turgeon all into one group. Frk is a bust. Jensen is an established defensive D-man in the AHL. And Turgeon and Ehn are newly drafted. Are seriously arguing that those 4 players all have similar value?

You literally contradict yourself by saying they won't want 24 year old AHLers like Ferraro and Callahan, but then suggest they would like 24 year old AHLer Jensen.

I think the prospect twitter updates your getting is what's middle of the pack

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Yea not exactly sure how you group Jensen with Ehn, Frk and Turgeon. Jensen played pre-season and looked like our best young dman besides XO. Last time I checked, he didn't regress either.

I have watched a lot of GR games and he is not bad or terrible so not sure how you group him with those guys.

Edited February 6, 2015 by darkmanx

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Cool, congratulations on all that, but I'm not arguing with you about who or what is a middle of the pack prospect.

You lumped Jensen, Frk, Ehn, and Turgeon all into one group. Frk is a bust. Jensen is an established defensive D-man in the AHL. And Turgeon and Ehn are newly drafted. Are seriously arguing that those 4 players all have similar value?

You literally contradict yourself by saying they won't want 24 year old AHLers like Ferraro and Callahan, but then suggest they would like 24 year old AHLer Jensen.

I think the prospect twitter updates your getting is what's middle of the pack

Your smart remarks are middle of the pack

I threw in jensen because to me in detroits eyes ouellet marchenko sproul backman are ahead of him , where's he gonna get a spot in detroit? Jensen is in a different situation as those other 2 because he was injured last few seasons and win awards in college for best defensemen

And yes frk has been a bust thus far , no doubt about it but he's still only 21

Yea not exactly sure how you group Jensen with Ehn, Frk and Turgeon. Jensen played pre-season and looked like our best young dman besides XO. Last time I checked, he didn't regress either.

I have watched a lot of GR games and he is not bad or terrible so not sure how you group him with those guys.

Didn't say jensen sucks I'm just suggesting the players I previously mentioned are ahead of him in detroits prospect rankings ( my opinion)

The fact that marchenko was called up here before he was and is 2 yrs younger should say something ... Unless of course he's being showcased for a trade

Edited February 6, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Your smart remarks are middle of the pack

I threw in jensen because to me in detroits eyes ouellet marchenko sproul backman are ahead of him , where's he gonna get a spot in detroit? Jensen is in a different situation as those other 2 because he was injured last few seasons and win awards in college for best defensemen

And yes frk has been a bust thus far , no doubt about it but he's still only 21

Didn't say jensen sucks I'm just suggesting the players I previously mentioned are ahead of him in detroits prospect rankings ( my opinion)

The fact that marchenko was called up here before he was and is 2 yrs younger should say something ... Unless of course he's being showcased for a trade

Marchenko being up here has nothing to do with Jensen. Marchenko played a couple games in the NHL last year, and was stated last year as just behind XO in depth in the AHL, some even thought he had a chance at the team this year but then he got injured and took him awhile to get it back to where it was.

My argument is there is no way you can put him with Frk, and Ehn who have shown nothing while Jensen has and got praise by Babcock and Holland.

[Bannedforlife 403]

Your smart remarks are middle of the pack

I threw in jensen because to me in detroits eyes ouellet marchenko sproul backman are ahead of him , where's he gonna get a spot in detroit? Jensen is in a different situation as those other 2 because he was injured last few seasons and win awards in college for best defensemen

You're a towel.

[number9 3,297]

Your smart remarks are middle of the pack

I threw in jensen because to me in detroits eyes ouellet marchenko sproul backman are ahead of him , where's he gonna get a spot in detroit? Jensen is in a different situation as those other 2 because he was injured last few seasons and win awards in college for best defensemen

And yes frk has been a bust thus far , no doubt about it but he's still only 21

Didn't say jensen sucks I'm just suggesting the players I previously mentioned are ahead of him in detroits prospect rankings ( my opinion)

The fact that marchenko was called up here before he was and is 2 yrs younger should say something ... Unless of course he's being showcased for a trade

Backman already returned to Sweden (Didn't get that in your twitter updates?), so no, he's not ahead of Jensen.

So you acknowledge that Frk is so far a bust and Jensen won major awards, but are still holding firm that they have the same value? Value that is somehow also on par with 2 players who were just drafted this summer?

[kipwinger 8,492]

Your smart remarks are middle of the pack

I threw in jensen because to me in detroits eyes ouellet marchenko sproul backman are ahead of him , where's he gonna get a spot in detroit? Jensen is in a different situation as those other 2 because he was injured last few seasons and win awards in college for best defensemen

And yes frk has been a bust thus far , no doubt about it but he's still only 21

Didn't say jensen sucks I'm just suggesting the players I previously mentioned are ahead of him in detroits prospect rankings ( my opinion)

The fact that marchenko was called up here before he was and is 2 yrs younger should say something ... Unless of course he's being showcased for a trade

Backman? Doesn't ring a bell. I vaguely recall a Swedish chick by that name, but she moved home a while ago. No big loss, she was too skinny anyway.

Edited February 6, 2015 by kipwinger

[Bannedforlife 403]

Backman? Doesn't ring a bell. I vaguely recall a Swedish chick by that name, but she moved home a while ago. No big loss, she was too skinny anyway.

Does that mean you're an assman, kip?

[kipwinger 8,492]

Does that mean you're an assman, kip?

Is that a question? I thought my love of husky, big boned, midwestern women was well known? What are the two most fun things to do in cold weather? Play hockey, and fat girls.

[number9 3,297]

Is that a question? I thought my love of husky, big boned, midwestern women was well known? What are the two most fun things to do in cold weather? Play hockey, and fat girls.

You skipped over drinking

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Guys... We don't need anyone

Brendan Smiths got this...

We need joesuff to rip him, and he'll put our third pair on lock down.

You skipped over drinking

I think that goes unsaid with hockey( beer league) and fat girls. ( My case, rested)

[Bannedforlife 403]

Is that a question? I thought my love of husky, big boned, midwestern women was well known? What are the two most fun things to do in cold weather? Play hockey, and fat girls.

Amen.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Marchenko being up here has nothing to do with Jensen. Marchenko played a couple games in the NHL last year, and was stated last year as just behind XO in depth in the AHL, some even thought he had a chance at the team this year but then he got injured and took him awhile to get it back to where it was.

My argument is there is no way you can put him with Frk, and Ehn who have shown nothing while Jensen has and got praise by Babcock and Holland.

Marchenko being up here might just mean the wings see him ahead of jensen ... It's at least a possibility

No doubt jensen is ahead of those 2 at this moment

You're a towel.

Nice one

Backman already returned to Sweden (Didn't get that in your twitter updates?), so no, he's not ahead of Jensen.

So you acknowledge that Frk is so far a bust and Jensen won major awards, but are still holding firm that they have the same value? Value that is somehow also on par with 2 players who were just drafted this summer?

Yes I'm aware that he's in Sweden ... Guess wherever it is you go you didn't notice he's just 22 ? He's way too young to be considered a goner

Jesus man ... Just saying he's the middle of the pack if you do a rankings of our prospects ...I'd say there a good 10-15 ahead of him ... Hence middle of the pack ... Not like we got 50 prospects

And I never said jensen sucked just said in detroits eyes I'm sure they view ouellet sproul marchenko and possibly backman ahead of him ... He could be in the top 3 for all I know but that's my opinion

Backman? Doesn't ring a bell. I vaguely recall a Swedish chick by that name, but she moved home a while ago. No big loss, she was too skinny anyway.

She'll be back ... Give the chicks a few years they'll put on some meat ... Always do

[Bannedforlife 403]

Nice one

You wanna get high?

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

You wanna get high?

That's it, I remember!

"You remember the password!?"

No, I found the beat to funky town!