Smith and Ericcsson?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I think a more reasonable approach would be to not fight to begin with

Why? That's what he decided to do with Chara. Foligno is hardly the second coming of Link Gaetz.

Fighting is a part of the game, even if 80% of modern Wings fans don't understand that (thanks Kenny).

The solution to the problem is simple : All of this of course wouldn't have happened with McGrattan......

I think McGrattan could put enough people in their seats to fix Detroit's bankruptcy problem.

[Mckinley25 677]

Fighting is a part of the game, even if 80% of modern Wings fans don't understand that (thanks Kenny).

.

I think they understand it's part of the game, they just don't want it to be.

And its 'part of the game' like hooking is part of the game.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I think they understand it's part of the game, they just don't want it to be.

And its 'part of the game' like hooking is part of the game.

Hooking isn't fun, though (no prostitute jokes, please ).

If you're a Wings fan, fighting is technically not a part of the game anymore. We're like the old Soviet teams whose coaches instructed them not to fight back against the Canadians.

Smith did nothing wrong. It was just bad luck he got hurt.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Hooking isn't fun, though (no prostitute jokes, please ).

If you're a Wings fan, fighting is technically not a part of the game anymore. We're like the old Soviet teams whose coaches instructed them not to fight back against the Canadians.

Smith did nothing wrong. It was just bad luck he got hurt.

It's so unpleasant to agree with such a small and obviously tangential point of your overall post. But I do. It was just a fluke.

[rick zombo 3,739]

It's so unpleasant to agree with such a small and obviously tangential point of your overall post. But I do. It was just a fluke.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

It's so unpleasant to agree with such a small and obviously tangential point of your overall post. But I do. It was just a fluke.

You'll get over it.

[kipwinger 8,520]

You'll get over it.

And back to your old self.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Why? That's what he decided to do with Chara. Foligno is hardly the second coming of Link Gaetz.

Fighting is a part of the game, even if 80% of modern Wings fans don't understand that (thanks Kenny).

I think McGrattan could put enough people in their seats to fix Detroit's bankruptcy problem.

What exactly did the Wings/Smith get out of engaging in the fight? It was already 4-0 so it certainly didn't help decide the game. Foligno isn't going to stop playing hockey (including checking other players) because someone fought him. So all I'm seeing out of this transaction is Babcock had to play with 5 defensman instead of six for five minutes, and now he has to play without Smith in the lineup for at least a week.

Look, I'm against fighting period, and I'm sure you're well aware of that. And I know you're a big supporter of fighting. And I can respect that. And we both already know that nothing either one of us will say can change the other person's mind on this issue. But you have to see, even as a fan of fighting, why this was a selfish and stupid decision by Smith. The game was already over. The check Smith got pissed off over wasn't even dirty. There was nothing to gain at all by fighting Foligno. And now his team has to get by without his services for the next week.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Echolalia

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

What exactly did the Wings/Smith get out of engaging in the fight? It was already 4-0 so it certainly didn't help decide the game. Foligno isn't going to stop playing hockey (including checking other players) because someone fought him. So all I'm seeing out of this transaction is Babcock had to play with 5 defensman instead of six for five minutes, and now he has to play without Smith in the lineup for at least a week.

Look, I'm against fighting period, and I'm sure you're well aware of that. And I know you're a big supporter of fighting. And I can respect that. And we both already know that nothing either one of us will say can change the other person's mind on this issue. But you have to see, even as a fan of fighting, why this was a selfish and stupid decision by Smith. The game was already over. The check Smith got pissed off over wasn't even dirty. There was nothing to gain at all by fighting Foligno. And now his team has to get by without his services for the next week.

Maybe Foligno said something about Smith's mother. Maybe something happened earlier in the game between those two. Who knows why they fought. There are plenty of fights during games that are blowouts, and it always takes two to tango. Smith didn't do anything selfish by fighting. Selfish would be a retaliatory penalty that costs the team a powerplay goal. Smith wasn't thinking about getting potentially injured, nor should he, so I wouldn't call it a selfish decision because he got hurt. It just happened.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Maybe Foligno said something about Smith's mother. Maybe something happened earlier in the game between those two. Who knows why they fought. There are plenty of fights during games that are blowouts, and it always takes two to tango. Smith didn't do anything selfish by fighting. Selfish would be a retaliatory penalty that costs the team a powerplay goal. Smith wasn't thinking about getting potentially injured, nor should he, so I wouldn't call it a selfish decision because he got hurt. It just happened.

This I disagree with.

There was nothing the team could have gained by Smith getting into the fight The game was already comfortably under control in the Wings' favor. Smith, on the other hand, could have repaired his own damaged ego (or his mother's if that's the case), or seeked retribution for a hit he didn't like, but those are personal reasons to fight that have nothing to do with the team's odds for victory. So in this case, the only one who's getting any potential benefit out of this is Smith, and its an entirely emotional benefit.

As for risk, well there is always a risk of injury when getting into a fight, and everyone should weigh that risk against the potential benefit when choosing to partake. There is also the guarantee that your team will have to play without you for the next five minutes, which is a more serious situation when the fighter is a defensman, becuase there's only six of those total to begin with. If you're one of the folks who believe that fights can be a rallying point to boost team morale and get everyone more engaged in the game, then there's also the risk of firing the other team up, and potentialy losing a game that your team was winning. So in terms of risk, Smith is risking his health, he's risking his team losing control over the game, he's putting Babcock and his teammates in a tougher spot because they have to pick up his slack while he sits in the box, and if he happens to get injured in the fight (which he happened to get injured), then Babcock and his teammates are in a tougher spot for the next several days, instead of just five minutes.

So lots of risk and disadvantages that the whole team has to carry, so Smith can resolve a personal vendetta that he has in the waning minutes of a game. I'd say that's quite selfish.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

This I disagree with.

There was nothing the team could have gained by Smith getting into the fight The game was already comfortably under control in the Wings' favor. Smith, on the other hand, could have repaired his own damaged ego (or his mother's if that's the case), or seeked retribution for a hit he didn't like, but those are personal reasons to fight that have nothing to do with the team's odds for victory. So in this case, the only one who's getting any potential benefit out of this is Smith, and its an entirely emotional benefit.

As for risk, well there is always a risk of injury when getting into a fight, and everyone should weigh that risk against the potential benefit when choosing to partake. There is also the guarantee that your team will have to play without you for the next five minutes, which is a more serious situation when the fighter is a defensman, becuase there's only six of those total to begin with. If you're one of the folks who believe that fights can be a rallying point to boost team morale and get everyone more engaged in the game, then there's also the risk of firing the other team up, and potentialy losing a game that your team was winning. So in terms of risk, Smith is risking his health, he's risking his team losing control over the game, he's putting Babcock and his teammates in a tougher spot because they have to pick up his slack while he sits in the box, and if he happens to get injured in the fight (which he happened to get injured), then Babcock and his teammates are in a tougher spot for the next several days, instead of just five minutes.

So lots of risk and disadvantages that the whole team has to carry, so Smith can resolve a personal vendetta that he has in the waning minutes of a game. I'd say that's quite selfish.

I like this Joseph Conrad like paragraph, but do you really think Smith had time to analyze all this in the heat of the moment?

[Echolalia 2,961]

I like this Joseph Conrad like paragraph, but do you really think Smith had time to analyze all this in the heat of the moment?

Absolutely I do, and its something I expect that him, as well as the rest of the team to do. And besides, if Smith was really the type of person to easily get caught up in the heat of the moment and lose himself to his emotions, I think he would have more than 6 fights in his NHL career.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he lost himself in the heat of the moment in this case, but Smith has already demonstrated throughout his career that he's able to keep a cool head when he tries. Yesterday, I don' think he tried.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Absolutely I do, and its something I expect that him, as well as the rest of the team to do. And besides, if Smith was really the type of person to easily get caught up in the heat of the moment and lose himself to his emotions, I think he would have more than 6 fights in his NHL career.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he lost himself in the heat of the moment in this case, but Smith has already demonstrated throughout his career that he's able to keep a cool head when he tries. Yesterday, I don' think he tried.

I just don't see this as a big deal. If you fight when you're up 4-0, someone can consider it pointless and selfish. If you fight when it's 2-2, you can be criticized for putting yourself in the box for 5 minutes in a crucial moment. Alternatively, someone could, if they choose, argue that a defenseman should never fight, because it puts his team down to 5 defenseman for at least 5 minutes. There could be an argument against fighting in every scenario. If you fight when you're down 4-1, then I guess the other team's player is selfish.

Edited November 21, 2014 by GMRwings1983

[Mckinley25 677]

I just don't see this as a big deal. If you fight when you're up 4-0, someone can consider it pointless and selfish. If you fight when it's 2-2, you can be criticized for putting yourself in the box for 5 minutes in a crucial moment. Alternatively, someone could, if they choose, argue that a defenseman should never fight, because it puts his team down to 5 defenseman for at least 5 minutes. There could be an argument against fighting in every scenario. If you fight when you're down 4-1, then I guess the other team's player is selfish.

It should be an argument against all fighting:). One of many!

[Echolalia 2,961]

I just don't see this as a big deal. If you fight when you're up 4-0, someone can consider it pointless and selfish. If you fight when it's 2-2, you can be criticized for putting yourself in the box for 5 minutes in a crucial moment. Alternatively, someone could, if they choose, argue that a defenseman should never fight, because it puts his team down to 5 defenseman for at least 5 minutes. There could be an argument against fighting in every scenario. If you fight when you're down 4-1, then I guess the other team's player is selfish.

I agree with all of this, and this is part of the reason why I'm not a fan of fighting, although at the very least I can understand where you guys are coming from when a fight occurs to send a message to a dirty player, or if you're down by one goal and need to get some momentum (even though I still disagree with these reasons). Which is why its so frustrating to see Smith get injured in this particular fight, because there wasn't any greater reason behind fighting.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Echolalia

[Guest DeGraa55]

Echo how can it be a selfish move by smith when you clearly state "the game is all ready over"?

If the game was all ready over and his fight had no impact on it I fail to see how it was selfish.

Also I don't know how someone doesn't like fighting. Watch soccer. Even baseball has the occosional fight. In sports played by men and emotions run high fights happen it's apart of it. Hockey just has more of it.

[Mckinley25 677]

Echo how can it be a selfish move by smith when you clearly state "the game is all ready over"?

If the game was all ready over and his fight had no impact on it I fail to see how it was selfish.

Also I don't know how someone doesn't like fighting. Watch soccer. Even baseball has the occosional fight. In sports played by men and emotions run high fights happen it's apart of it. Hockey just has more of it.

It's selfish because now we're without a good defenseman because he put his own needs above the team's. That's actually the definition of selfish.

[Echolalia 2,961]

It's selfish because now we're without a good defenseman because he put his own needs above the team's. That's actually the definition of selfish.

this

[Guest DeGraa55]

It's selfish because now we're without a good defenseman because he put his own needs above the team's. That's actually the definition of selfish.

How? Because he stood up for himself? He doesn't just roll over and take it like a *****...like a majority of the team so it's selfish?

And again. If the game was "all ready over" he clearly isn't putting his needs before the team. Cause the game was "all ready over".

Edited November 21, 2014 by DeGraa55

[Mckinley25 677]

How? Because he stood up for himself? He doesn't just roll over and take it like a *****...like a majority of the team so it's selfish?

And again. If the game was "all ready over" he clearly isn't putting his needs before the team. Cause the game was "all ready over".

Again, the team needs him tonight and he's not there

[Guest DeGraa55]

Again, the team needs him tonight and he's not there

Again that's not his fault. That's like blaming joe blow for not being there cause he sprained his ankle taking a shower. He was just so selfish for you know taking a shower.

Jesus Christ people. You're the reason the world is growing soft.

[Echolalia 2,961]

How? Because he stood up for himself? He doesn't just roll over and take it like a *****...like a majority of the team so it's selfish?

And again. If the game was "all ready over" he clearly isn't putting his needs before the team. Cause the game was "all ready over".

I mean, I think I explained it about as clearly as I can above. The team gains nothing from Smith fighting in that case. Smith is able to repair his broken ego, that's really the only positive to come from fighting at that point in the game. So he wasn't fighting to help his team out. He was fighting to satisfy his own personal desires at the expense of his team, because while he's sitting in the box his teammates have to pick up his minutes. Whether its minute 1 or minute 45 of the game, that's extra miles on some players, you have players playing with teammates they may not be very used to playing with, or Babs might just roll with two defensive lines instead of three, which means Smith's d partner is benched for the 5 minutes. Everyone has to accommodate for Smith being in the box. Also like I mentioned, every time anyone decides to fight, they're accepting the risk of getting injured, as we saw last night. So Smith picks his fight, caresses his fragile ego, hurts his hand in the process, and now the team has to play without him for the next week. Its very clearly a selfish move. He did it for his own personal reasons, and his team pays the price. I really can't explain it any better than that, and if you can't see it then I don't know what to tell you.

[Mckinley25 677]

How? Because he stood up for himself? He doesn't just roll over and take it like a *****...like a majority of the team so it's selfish?

And again. If the game was "all ready over" he clearly isn't putting his needs before the team. Cause the game was "all ready over".

The whole "rolling over and taking it like a female body part (that is what you said right, the censor makes it difficult)" is an artificial construct, the meaning you're assigning to it doesn't exist in any tangible way. I think it's more honorable to turn the other cheek (to borrow a phrase from someone I don't believe in) but that to isn't really the best argument either. I personally believe that we as a species are intelligent enough to start finding other methods of solving problems than "PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE!!" But this could go on and on.....

Again that's not his fault. That's like blaming joe blow for not being there cause he sprained his ankle taking a shower. He was just so selfish for you know taking a shower.

Jesus Christ people. You're the reason the world is growing soft.

No, that's not the same at all.

[Guest DeGraa55]

The whole "rolling over and taking it like a female body part (that is what you said right, the censor makes it difficult)" is an artificial construct, the meaning you're assigning to it doesn't exist in any tangible way. I think it's more honorable to turn the other cheek (to borrow a phrase from someone I don't believe in) but that to isn't really the best argument either. I personally believe that we as a species are intelligent enough to start finding other methods of solving problems than "PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE!!" But this could go on and on.....

No, that's not the same at all.

Actually I said witch with a b. But sorry censored I know.

And basically all you told me is you're the liberal telling your kids it's ok that he mocks you honey just go tell your teacher!

in the world of hockey and other sports you don't have time to sit down and talk about things like intelligent human beings lol. What do you want them to do stop the game every five minutes so we can have a great debate of intelligent human beings. This way instead of a dirty hit, or fight or whatever we can just sit there and talk about it! Now that's good television!!

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Actually I said witch with a b. But sorry censored I know.

And basically all you told me is you're the liberal telling your kids it's ok that he mocks you honey just go tell your teacher!

in the world of hockey and other sports you don't have time to sit down and talk about things like intelligent human beings lol. What do you want them to do stop the game every five minutes so we can have a great debate of intelligent human beings. This way instead of a dirty hit, or fight or whatever we can just sit there and talk about it! Now that's good television!!

I'm not gonna lie.

I'd probably still watch that.

I mean, I still watch baseball.

Edited November 21, 2014 by jimmyemeryhunter