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kipwinger

Inconsistency

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One thing I've noticed is that Zetterberg hasn't made his presence felt much this year. On the power play he seems to be more or less looking for the pass instead of taking it to the net which could be that he isn't 100%

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Guest DeGraa55

I think this goes back to how Babcock has said like if you stay in one spot you can get burned out or too relaxed.

Maybe he has lost his touch with some if the players?

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For average age yes. The entire roster is guys 33+ or under 25.... It does take a couple years for youth to get used to the highest levels of any sport. The highs and lows and the grind that is 82 games.

Helm, Abby, Quincey, Ericsson, and Miller are all veteran players in "their prime". And then we've got quite a few older veterans, with a bunch of kids mixed in. I'd imagine our age dispersion isn't noticeably different than any other team. And it's not like we've got a 48 year old Chelios and a 41 year old Lidstrom on the team bringing up the average age. The average age his high because we've got a mostly veteran team.

Now, if one were to say that young guys occupy extremely important roles on the team, I'd say they've got a better point. But then we'd have to look at other teams and see how many of them have young guys occupying top four, and top six spots. I'd imagine it's more that you think.

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Helm, Abby, Quincey, Ericsson, and Miller are all veteran players in "their prime". And then we've got quite a few older veterans, with a bunch of kids mixed in. I'd imagine our age dispersion isn't noticeably different than any other team. And it's not like we've got a 48 year old Chelios and a 41 year old Lidstrom on the team bringing up the average age. The average age his high because we've got a mostly veteran team.

Now, if one were to say that young guys occupy extremely important roles on the team, I'd say they've got a better point. But then we'd have to look at other teams and see how many of them have young guys occupying top four, and top six spots. I'd imagine it's more that you think.

We are talking the same thing. Just look at our D. 2 guys well into the 30's in Kronwall and E, 2 guys under 25 in Smith and Dekeyser, and 2 guys that shouldn't be on an NHL roster is Q and Kindl. 2/3's of the D is either young and lacks experience or rubbish (yes I have watching the BBC in America to much lately....). When 2/3's of the very important blueline group is suspect at different times, that does create problems. Keep in mind that I firmly believe that Dekeyser is our best defensive Dman. but he still makes mistakes from time to time.

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Helm, Abby, Quincey, Ericsson, and Miller are all veteran players in "their prime". And then we've got quite a few older veterans, with a bunch of kids mixed in. I'd imagine our age dispersion isn't noticeably different than any other team. And it's not like we've got a 48 year old Chelios and a 41 year old Lidstrom on the team bringing up the average age. The average age his high because we've got a mostly veteran team.

Now, if one were to say that young guys occupy extremely important roles on the team, I'd say they've got a better point. But then we'd have to look at other teams and see how many of them have young guys occupying top four, and top six spots. I'd imagine it's more that you think.

I think you nailed it, the players in their prime are not our stars, they're good players but they're role players.

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We are talking the same thing. Just look at our D. 2 guys well into the 30's in Kronwall and E, 2 guys under 25 in Smith and Dekeyser, and 2 guys that shouldn't be on an NHL roster is Q and Kindl. 2/3's of the D is either young and lacks experience or rubbish (yes I have watching the BBC in America to much lately....). When 2/3's of the very important blueline group is suspect at different times, that does create problems. Keep in mind that I firmly believe that Dekeyser is our best defensive Dman. but he still makes mistakes from time to time.

Ericsson isn't "well into his 30's" and Quincey has been very good this year, let alone good enough to be on the roster. You're distorting things to make an argument work that doesn't. Our defense has a good dispersion of veterans and youth, just like almost every other defense.

I do agree with you that Dekeyser has been our best d-man, and that he occasionally makes mistakes, but every team and every player occasionally make mistakes. But that doesn't explain why we can't string together wins.

Look, I'm not saying we don't have young guys on the team. We do. Every team does. I'm just skeptical of overly simplistic answers. Two years ago we were really inconsistent and it was because we had "too many veterans" and they weren't "hungry enough". It was wrong then, and this modern "too many young guys" theory seems wrong now.

We are not noticeably younger than any other team, and older than many. The theory simply doesn't hold water.

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Not to be the type of guy who criticizes others' ideas and doesn't provide any thoughts of my own, here are two theories I have. Feel free to destroy them as needed...

1) Last I heard, we were 3rd in the league in powerplay opportunities and 19th in the league in powerplay percentage. A better powerplay equals more goals, and on most nights, more goals equals more wins. In this case, inconsistency is borne out of missed opportunities.

2) Without and established (and reliable) top two centers, Babs' is forced to mix and match lines and combinations in an attempt to find offense. Most of the time he doesn't get it (because he has to use guys out of position etc.) and when he does (like with the current Tatar-Sheahan-Abby line) he'll be forced to change it as soon as Dats or Weiss gets healthy. In this case, ever changing lines equals little chemistry, and little chemistry equals inconsistent nightly productivity.

Aaaaaand attack.

Edited by kipwinger

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Not to be the type of guy who criticizes others' ideas and doesn't provide any thoughts of my own, here are two theories I have. Feel free to destroy them as needed...

1) Last I heard, we were 3rd in the league in powerplay opportunities and 19th in the league in powerplay percentage. A better powerplay equals more goals, and on most nights, more goals equals more wins. In this case, inconsistency is borne out of missed opportunities.

2) Without and established (and reliable) top two centers, Babs' is forced to mix and match lines and combinations in an attempt to find offense. Most of the time he doesn't get it (because he has to use guys out of position etc.) and when he does (like with the current Tatar-Sheahan-Abby line) he'll be forced to change it as soon as Dats or Weiss gets healthy. In this case, ever changing lines equals little chemistry, and little chemistry equals inconsistent nightly productivity.

Aaaaaand attack.

Youth/age is only part of the issues. As I have mentioned earlier in other threads, we do need a move or 2. there is no one on the team or in the system that can work down low infront of the other teams G and pick up the trash. Haven't had that guy since Homer retired. We need at least 1 most likely 2 guys like that. That would help both PP units and thus more scoring. 2 more good Dmen would also do wonders......

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Really? Who would have thunk it?... Now that you mention it though I'm pretty sure his birth certificate actually says "John Mitchell NetFrontPickingUpTrashGoals Callahan"...

You know who loves Mitch Callahan? Jeff Blashill.

Here's hoping he's the coach of the Red Wings next year am I right?

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I have no problems with how things have gone so far. It hasn't been perfect and there's obviously stuff you could nitpick, but so long as enough guys stay healthy and chemistry and experience build, I think this team is only going to get better and better as the season goes on.

And I'd rather peak in the playoffs than in November.

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I have no problems with how things have gone so far. It hasn't been perfect and there's obviously stuff you could nitpick, but so long as enough guys stay healthy and chemistry and experience build, I think this team is only going to get better and better as the season goes on.

And I'd rather peak in the playoffs than in November.

Ok, but which types of teams are more likely to make the playoffs, let alone peak in them...ones that can string together wins, or ones that have great games (Chicago, Columbus) and then fail to build on them?

That's all this thread is about. Inconsistency is a problem, regardless of whether it's been detrimental thus far.

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Yeah Kip, I don't get why Babcock hasn't done everything he possibly could to get Callahan up here like he has with Glendening to be honest. He's basically Glendening with more scoring potential in my opinion. Maybe that's the problem lol... But seriously, he would be a great 4th liner for this team along with Glendening and Miller. Defensively responsible, great penalty killer, agitating as f*ck, can chip in a little offensively, has a knack at scoring big time goals, and could even potentially be used as a net front guy on the power-play... What's not to like right?...

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Ok, but which types of teams are more likely to make the playoffs, let alone peak in them...ones that can string together wins, or ones that have great games (Chicago, Columbus) and then fail to build on them?

That's all this thread is about. Inconsistency is a problem, regardless of whether it's been detrimental thus far.

I see it as a product of where this team is at right now. There's two cores in a sense; one is young and inexperienced, one is getting up there in age. On top of that, Datsyuk, arguably still our best player, has been in and out of the lineup and not always at 100% when playing. We can't really complain about goaltending, the defense has been better than they have any right to be, and our young guys are continuing to get better. But it's going to be a bumpy road for awhile still because some of the guys that I do believe will carry this team down the stretch are still getting their feet wet in the NHL.

And when Dats is healthier and playing on the regular, it'll help a fair amount. And if Weiss is able to come in and contribute on some level, that could be a big bonus. But I really do think come the December-January timeframe, we'll be stringing together more and more wins if this team can stay healthier on the whole. There's a good deal more positive consistency happening in certain areas of our game this year than in the last couple of years, and consistency in other areas will come as guys continue to develop. Put it all together, and I'm pretty happy with where the team is at now, and pretty excited for where they'll be in a few months.

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I see it as a product of where this team is at right now. There's two cores in a sense; one is young and inexperienced, one is getting up there in age. On top of that, Datsyuk, arguably still our best player, has been in and out of the lineup and not always at 100% when playing. We can't really complain about goaltending, the defense has been better than they have any right to be, and our young guys are continuing to get better. But it's going to be a bumpy road for awhile still because some of the guys that I do believe will carry this team down the stretch are still getting their feet wet in the NHL.

And when Dats is healthier and playing on the regular, it'll help a fair amount. And if Weiss is able to come in and contribute on some level, that could be a big bonus. But I really do think come the December-January timeframe, we'll be stringing together more and more wins if this team can stay healthier on the whole. There's a good deal more positive consistency happening in certain areas of our game this year than in the last couple of years, and consistency in other areas will come as guys continue to develop. Put it all together, and I'm pretty happy with where the team is at now, and pretty excited for where they'll be in a few months.

I agree with the second paragraph but not the first. We've been better without Datsyuk than with him. His being gone from the lineup hasn't (up to now) been the source of our tendency to drop games.

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Our record has been better without Datsyuk in the lineup this season, but I think it would be foolish to think we're a better team without Datsyuk (and I'm not saying that's what you're saying..) For whatever reason guys seem to step up big time when Datsyuk is out of the lineup and sit back and assume he is going to carry the team to victory each and every night. That isn't the case any more unfortunately... Guys need to step up the same way as when he isn't playing even when he is...

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Our record has been better without Datsyuk in the lineup this season, but I think it would be foolish to think we're a better team without Datsyuk (and I'm not saying that's what you're saying..) For whatever reason guys seem to step up big time when Datsyuk is out of the lineup and sit back and assume he is going to carry the team to victory each and every night. That isn't the case any more unfortunately... Guys need to step up the same way as when he isn't playing even when he is...

Of course we're not a better team. I'm just saying that you can't pin loses on the failure to have Datsyuk in the lineup. We don't have too many loses without Datsyuk in the lineup. So far, the fact that our impressive wins are punctuated by loses isn't due to Datsyuk's absence, because thus far when he's been gone we've won more often than lost. That's all I'm saying.

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I agree with the second paragraph but not the first. We've been better without Datsyuk than with him. His being gone from the lineup hasn't (up to now) been the source of our tendency to drop games.

I've been saying since last year that I think Nyqvist in particular is better when Dats is out of the lineup, and I think Tatar falls into that category as well. It's almost like they're intimidated when Dats is around and loosen up when he's out. But if those guys are worth a damn to this team, which I absolutely believe they are, that will work itself out in time and translate to a better, more balanced team overall. Plus, Datsyuk hasn't been 100% when in the lineup, and I think he's bound to get healthy again and be better than he's been at times so far this year. I'm just not sweating that side of things working out. Great players will find ways to be great players when push comes to shove, and as frustrated as I've been about some of the kids not playing up to their potential when Datsyuk is around, I'm not about to start running around saying that we're a better team without Datsyuk. There's just some kinks that need ironing out, and I think in due time they'll all be fine and making this team that much better, and subsequently more consistent.

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I've been saying since last year that I think Nyqvist in particular is better when Dats is out of the lineup, and I think Tatar falls into that category as well. It's almost like they're intimidated when Dats is around and loosen up when he's out. But if those guys are worth a damn to this team, which I absolutely believe they are, that will work itself out in time and translate to a better, more balanced team overall. Plus, Datsyuk hasn't been 100% when in the lineup, and I think he's bound to get healthy again and be better than he's been at times so far this year. I'm just not sweating that side of things working out. Great players will find ways to be great players when push comes to shove, and as frustrated as I've been about some of the kids not playing up to their potential when Datsyuk is around, I'm not about to start running around saying that we're a better team without Datsyuk. There's just some kinks that need ironing out, and I think in due time they'll all be fine and making this team that much better, and subsequently more consistent.

See above. I didn't say they're a better team. I said they've won more than lost with him absent. As such, it's hard to blame the loses on his absence.

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