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kipwinger

Inconsistency

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This team is inconsistent. We haven't won 3 games in a row all season. We've got skilled players, the core veterans are all playing well, Jimmy is playing excellent, and the kids that needed to be good have been. So what's the problem?

Speculate away!

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This team is inconsistent. We haven't won 3 games in a row all season. We've got skilled players, the core veterans are all playing well, Jimmy is playing excellent, and the kids that needed to be good have been. So what's the problem?

Speculate away!

It really seems like after a win they relax and lose that drive and tenacity that got them that win the next game. They always come out looking extremely sluggish and slow after what appears to be a really solid victory, so it's definitely a mental thing. The skill and structure is obviously there but they can't maintain the right mindset.

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It really seems like after a win they relax and lose that drive and tenacity that got them that win the next game. They always come out looking extremely sluggish and slow after what appears to be a really solid victory, so it's definitely a mental thing. The skill and structure is obviously there but they can't maintain the right mindset.

Why do you suppose that is?

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If I had to guess, I would say that the age distribution of our team may be playing a role. One one end, we have our current core of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, all on the wrong side of 33. They're still great players, but the Wings cant lean on them as heavily as they used to, and I don't think it fair to expect them to string together win streaks entirely on their shoulders. And on the other end of the spectrum, we have our up-and-coming core (give or take) of Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheahan, Dekeyser, etc etc all south of 25 years old. They're great players, but not quite in their prime, and not quite experiened enough to be the leaders of this team. If you look at the players that we have between 25 and 30 years old (which I'm arbitrarily defining as prime years just based on the notion that folks in this age range tend to have a few solid years of NHL experience under their belt, and are still young enough in most cases not to have lost a step or be plagued by injuries) we have Abdelkader (27), Andersson (25), Glendening (25), Helm (27), Miller (30), Nyquist (25), and Smith (25). Four of those seven players are on our fourth line. I think its also worth pointing out that even though I arbitrarily picked 25-30 as prime years, based in part due to NHL experience, Glendening, Andersson, Nyquist and Smith have all played less than 140 NHL games, which means that sweet spot between solid skill and durability, and solid experience is going to be delayed a few more years in these guys.

But who knows whats really going on.

I just took a look at the standings at NHL.com, and right now there are only three teams currently riding 3-game winning streaks. Everyone else has streaks smaller than that (or losing streaks). Theres also 23 of 30 teams within 10 points of eachother league-wide. I don't know what each team has looked like streak-wise over the course of the entire season so far, but teams are more closely matched than in the past, which can also be playing a role.

Edited by Echolalia

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If I had to guess, I would say that the age distribution of our team may be playing a role. One one end, we have our current core of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, all on the wrong side of 33. They're still great players, but the Wings cant lean on them as heavily as they used to, and I don't think it fair to expect them to string together win streaks entirely on their shoulders. And on the other end of the spectrum, we have our up-and-coming core (give or take) of Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheahan, Dekeyser, etc etc all south of 25 years old. They're great players, but not quite in their prime, and not quite experiened enough to be the leaders of this team. If you look at the players that we have between 25 and 30 years old (which I'm arbitrarily defining as prime years just based on the notion that folks in this age range tend to have a few solid years of NHL experience under their belt, and are still young enough in most cases not to have lost a step or be plagued by injuries) we have Abdelkader (27), Andersson (25), Glendening (25), Helm (27), Miller (30), Nyquist (25), and Smith (25). Four of those seven players are on our fourth line. I think its also worth pointing out that even though I arbitrarily picked 25-30 as prime years, based in part due to NHL experience, Glendening, Andersson, Nyquist and Smith have all played less than 140 NHL games, which means that sweet spot between solid skill and durability, and solid experience is going to be delayed a few more years in these guys.

But who knows whats really going on.

That's definitely a theory that I've thought about, but the problem I have with what I'll call the "transition argument" is this...all those guys are playing great. The fourth line is playing awesome, the kids (other than Jurco) are playing very well, the prime guys have been good (minus Helm), and the vets are all playing well. Literally everybody on the team aside from Jurco, Helm, Lashoff, and Kindl are playing great hockey. And we don't really rely on any of those four to win games anyway.

That's what's so irritating about all this for me. Everybody is playing pretty well. We've got a good offense, defense, goaltending, and special teams. And yet we can't string together wins. I just don't get it.

Edit: The only thing that I can think of is that the absence of a second line center has forced Babs to mix and match lines constantly. Which hurts consistency since lines never have a chance to establish any game to game chemistry. Problem with this theory is that Babs would juggle lines every game whether we have a second line center or not, so why is it so much worse now than every other time he's mixed things up for the hell of it?

Edited by kipwinger

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That's definitely a theory that I've thought about, but the problem I have with what I'll call the "transition argument" is this...all those guys are playing great. The fourth line is playing awesome, the kids (other than Jurco) are playing very well, the prime guys have been good (minus Helm), and the vets are all playing well. Literally everybody on the team aside from Jurco, Helm, Lashoff, and Kindl are playing great hockey. And we don't really rely on any of those four to win games anyway.

That's what's so irritating about all this for me. Everybody is playing pretty well. We've got a good offense, defense, goaltending, and special teams. And yet we can't string together wins. I just don't get it.

I think everyone's put up some solid strings of games, but I don't think anyone has been able to really consistetly get going. Tatar is currently on fire, but he was cold in the beginning of the season, and right now it seems like Tatar is the only one who is producing. Nyquist has 3 points his last 10 games, but at the beginning of the year every puck he touched hit the back of the net. Zetterberg has been cold lately, Datsyuk hasn't been playing. Really, the only line that has been able play with some consisteny throughout the season has been the fourth line. And I think you really hit the nail on the head in your title in that the Wings have been inconsistent. Maybe not collectively, because there always seems to be at least one player who's pulling the wagon (and there have been plenty of different players to pull it already), but in terms of lines and individual players, they've been pretty streaky. Well, aside from the fourth line in a shut-down role, and actually Abdelkader has been bringing it every day, too. I'd add Smith to that list as well but hes missing time right now, which isn't helping the Wings out. Everyone else has been either really hot for several games, or really cold for several games, and at a loss for any better reason I suspect that age distribution may be at least partly to blame.

Its almost like they're taking turns being the on-ice leader. Right now Tatar is playing hot, so he's pulling the wagon. Next week its going to be Franzen, and then Tatar will disappear.

Edited by Echolalia

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datsyuks health and not enough ouellet

How about Z's? Lets not pretend that isn't still an issue.

Also... shhhh.... Franzen.

EDIT: I will expound on the "COACHING" comment... when the liter of Kölsch wears off.

Edited by e_prime

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If I had to guess, I would say that the age distribution of our team may be playing a role. One one end, we have our current core of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, all on the wrong side of 33. They're still great players, but the Wings cant lean on them as heavily as they used to, and I don't think it fair to expect them to string together win streaks entirely on their shoulders. And on the other end of the spectrum, we have our up-and-coming core (give or take) of Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheahan, Dekeyser, etc etc all south of 25 years old. They're great players, but not quite in their prime, and not quite experiened enough to be the leaders of this team. If you look at the players that we have between 25 and 30 years old (which I'm arbitrarily defining as prime years just based on the notion that folks in this age range tend to have a few solid years of NHL experience under their belt, and are still young enough in most cases not to have lost a step or be plagued by injuries) we have Abdelkader (27), Andersson (25), Glendening (25), Helm (27), Miller (30), Nyquist (25), and Smith (25). Four of those seven players are on our fourth line. I think its also worth pointing out that even though I arbitrarily picked 25-30 as prime years, based in part due to NHL experience, Glendening, Andersson, Nyquist and Smith have all played less than 140 NHL games, which means that sweet spot between solid skill and durability, and solid experience is going to be delayed a few more years in these guys.

But who knows whats really going on.

I posted about this very thing a few days ago. While I don't think you can pin our inconsistency on just one or two things, I'm willing to bet this is the biggest factor.

The thing about a player's "prime" is it's not just some physiological thing that magically happens when you hit a certain age. It's largely just the fact that, being 27, you've been in this league for three or four or five years now. You're experienced, comfortable, confident. You're a veteran. Roughly half our roster isn't there yet, and you can definitely tell.

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Haven't we been better without Datsyuk than with him? Not exactly the picture of consistency in that respect.

well the kids love to step it up when our stars are injured. i think last year it was z that was out and the kids killed it. now tatar is stepping up for dats. obviously having dats back would help us..

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This team has been consistently inconsistent for the last 3 years. This is what they are. As the OP said, we do have good offense, defense, goaltending, and special teams, and pretty much everyone is playing well (or at least not poorly). But they are, simply, inconsistent. A good chunk of the core is over-the-hill and another good chunk is young and inexperienced. The players in the "prime age range" aren't key players, outside of Howard and Ericsson. It is frustrating, but most nights they do play well and I expect they'll contend for a playoff spot again. They just have to ride it out, not panic and make any stupid trades to "load up for a Cup run" (they don't have the core to do that) and risk mortgaging the future.

Edited by joshy207

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I posted about this very thing a few days ago. While I don't think you can pin our inconsistency on just one or two things, I'm willing to bet this is the biggest factor.

The thing about a player's "prime" is it's not just some physiological thing that magically happens when you hit a certain age. It's largely just the fact that, being 27, you've been in this league for three or four or five years now. You're experienced, comfortable, confident. You're a veteran. Roughly half our roster isn't there yet, and you can definitely tell.

It does make me excited for what's on the horizon.

edit: for the record, I think its worth mentioning that while we haven't put together a long streak of victories in a row, yet, the Wings are still right in the thick of things, with the teams around us having played more games. This implies that we probably haven't experienced the losing streaks that some of these other teams have endured also.

Edited by Echolalia

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It does make me excited for what's on the horizon.

edit: for the record, I think its worth mentioning that while we haven't put together a long streak of victories in a row, yet, the Wings are still right in the thick of things, with the teams around us having played more games. This implies that we probably haven't experienced the losing streaks that some of these other teams have endured also.

I agree. I'm fairly happy overall with how the season has gone so far. The "kids" really haven't had the sophomore slump, Howard is bouncing back nicely, the veterans have been decent and even Cleary hasn't been god awful. The difference between this year and last year at this time is night and day. Still issues on the PP and can't seem to win a shootout to save our lives, still lacking that RH puck moving defenseman, but considering there were a number of doom and gloom predictions before the season started, I think it's gone as well as could be expected. Cup favorites? Probably not, but they're fairly enjoyable to watch and they're holding their own in the conference.

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If I had to guess, I would say that the age distribution of our team may be playing a role. One one end, we have our current core of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, all on the wrong side of 33. They're still great players, but the Wings cant lean on them as heavily as they used to, and I don't think it fair to expect them to string together win streaks entirely on their shoulders. And on the other end of the spectrum, we have our up-and-coming core (give or take) of Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheahan, Dekeyser, etc etc all south of 25 years old. They're great players, but not quite in their prime, and not quite experiened enough to be the leaders of this team. If you look at the players that we have between 25 and 30 years old (which I'm arbitrarily defining as prime years just based on the notion that folks in this age range tend to have a few solid years of NHL experience under their belt, and are still young enough in most cases not to have lost a step or be plagued by injuries) we have Abdelkader (27), Andersson (25), Glendening (25), Helm (27), Miller (30), Nyquist (25), and Smith (25). Four of those seven players are on our fourth line. I think its also worth pointing out that even though I arbitrarily picked 25-30 as prime years, based in part due to NHL experience, Glendening, Andersson, Nyquist and Smith have all played less than 140 NHL games, which means that sweet spot between solid skill and durability, and solid experience is going to be delayed a few more years in these guys.

But who knows whats really going on.

I just took a look at the standings at NHL.com, and right now there are only three teams currently riding 3-game winning streaks. Everyone else has streaks smaller than that (or losing streaks). Theres also 23 of 30 teams within 10 points of eachother league-wide. I don't know what each team has looked like streak-wise over the course of the entire season so far, but teams are more closely matched than in the past, which can also be playing a role.

Probably this. Good call.

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In baseball most explain the difference between good pitchers and great pitchers is, can a pitcher still get you 7 innings and keep you close when he doesn't have his good stuff. We as a team are good, not great. Yes when everything goes our way we win. But if we have a few guys having an off night we are not good enough to overcome it.

The 3 goals per game number is key. we are great when we score 3 or more goals. 2 or fewer and we suck. We can't win ugly games or do the ugly things that great teams do to win. Thus it is hard to put together long winning streaks.

TBH we are 3-5 more high end talents away from being great team, on top of replacing those that we will loose.

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Why do you suppose that is?

There's probably a few things that contribute. It always seems to me though that after what I'd consider a solid win, they come out sluggish the next game almost like they got too confident, and don't play with that desperate edge. Youth probably has something to do with it, as well as the fact that our core isn't getting any younger. Maybe the Coach's word isn't enough motivation either, I dunno. Don't get me wrong I'm generally a fan of Babcock but sometimes it just seems like he can't rally the troops to give 110% the game after a win.

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