Rank our griffins d prospects

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

He had several opportunities. He apparently didn't do anything in camp, practice, or 18 AHL games to prove he was better than a career minor league plug who hasn't scored a point this year.

Except he was our best Dman last year. I guess we should have gave up on Tatar this year because he started slow too. 18 games to start the year is way to small of a sample size, especially after what he did last year.

[Guest DeGraa55]

He did last year and was probably our best dman in the playoffs, he wanted to be a regular this year.

Sure he wasn't off to a good start this year but he is better then Evans for sure.

This is more of a roster mismanagement by Holland then Backman being a "sore loser". Kindl / Lashoff shouldn't even be on this team, XO should be up full time.

Yes I agree holland has mismanaged the roster. But you also need to earn your time.

I hate his mismanagement more than anyone look at nyquist not being up full time until he was 24. But he also didn't run back to mommy an daddy in Sweden he waited until it was his time.

With holland mismanaging the roster it allows the players to show their character.

[canadian wings fan 305]

"... and that's no place for a nervous person." what the hell is Micky talking about during the Dodge Ram commercial?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Except he was our best Dman last year. I guess we should have gave up on Tatar this year because he started slow too. 18 games to start the year is way to small of a sample size, especially after what he did last year.

He played in 2 regular season and 10 playoff games last year. That's not nearly enough to establish anything. Tatar scored 39 points in 73 games last year and showed he was an NHL player. Those are two entirely different situations.

[Ekmanc 586]

He played in 2 regular season and 10 playoff games last year. That's not nearly enough to establish anything. Tatar scored 39 points in 73 games last year and showed he was an NHL player. Those are two entirely different situations.

Ah so now is suddenly a moment for nuance...

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

He played in 2 regular season and 10 playoff games last year. That's not nearly enough to establish anything. Tatar scored 39 points in 73 games last year and showed he was an NHL player. Those are two entirely different situations.

So that takes away that he was our best dman last year in the playoffs? Go read what Babcock and Blash had to say about him. He is better then Evans and should have been playing over him. Plain and simple.

Edited December 22, 2014 by darkmanx

[DickieDunn 2,571]

So that takes away that he was our best dman last year in the playoffs? Go read what Babcock and Blash had to say about him. He is better then Evans and should have been playing over him. Plain and simple.

What he did in a 10 game stretch last year is irrelevant to what he's done this year. If he was better this year, he would have been playing. He was sitting instead, and hat tells me that he's dropped off. This is what Holland and Blashill said this year.

Holland: “I’ve been in the game since 1975 in pro hockey, for 10 years as a minor league goaltender. Adversity and competition are wonderful things, and learning to fight through the adversity, learning to fight through the competition, learning to compete every day in practice and wait for your opportunity to get in the lineup and take somebody’s job, that’s what we’ve tried to build the Red Wings on."

Blashill: “What I’ve talked to him about is making sure that when he gets his opportunities, he’s ready to play great,” Blashill said. “That’s the No. 1 thing he can control is his play. He can’t control my decision on who to play.

2 things stick out to me in those quotes. First, Backman wasn't prepared to play at a high level when he did play. Second, he doesn't deal well when things aren't going his way. If you can't do those things, I don't care how talented you are, you're not an NHL player.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

You're not gifted anything as a pro. Check out the Oilers if you want to see the product of that.

Big difference between getting a spot on an ahl team when your a highly ranked prospect so you can learn and develop your game and when you go straight to the nhl and thrown into the fire , not the same at all

He should of gotten some playing time over the vets who have no future with detroit

[Ekmanc 586]

He's not some kid who came up from a junior league either. He was on the top pairing of a top team in the SHL, played in every situation and ended last season with the best +- in the entire league, played for the Swedish national team and then came here and had an excellent playoffs.

Sure he should've just buckled down and fought through it but I can understand that being benched over guys that are never going anywhere has to be very frustrating.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

He had several opportunities. He apparently didn't do anything in camp, practice, or 18 AHL games to prove he was better than a career minor league plug who hasn't scored a point this year.

Our high ranks prospects should get playing time over aging vets who have no chance of playing in the nhl , I even would of added nedomlel to the roster

People can mock backman all they want but I can see it from his point ... You leave the place your from , your family and friends to pursue your dream and then you don't even play for weeks ... Might as well go back and play and see your loved ones

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

What he did in a 10 game stretch last year is irrelevant to what he's done this year. If he was better this year, he would have been playing. He was sitting instead, and hat tells me that he's dropped off. This is what Holland and Blashill said this year.

Holland: Ive been in the game since 1975 in pro hockey, for 10 years as a minor league goaltender. Adversity and competition are wonderful things, and learning to fight through the adversity, learning to fight through the competition, learning to compete every day in practice and wait for your opportunity to get in the lineup and take somebodys job, thats what weve tried to build the Red Wings on."[/size]

Blashill: [/size]What Ive talked to him about is making sure that when he gets his opportunities, hes ready to play great, Blashill said. Thats the No. 1 thing he can control is his play. He cant control my decision on who to play.[/size]

2 things stick out to me in those quotes. First, Backman wasn't prepared to play at a high level when he did play. Second, he doesn't deal well when things aren't going his way. If you can't do those things, I don't care how talented you are, you're not an NHL player.[/size]

What he did in a 10 game stretch last year is irrelevant to what he's done this year. If he was better this year, he would have been playing. He was sitting instead, and hat tells me that he's dropped off. This is what Holland and Blashill said this year.

Holland: Ive been in the game since 1975 in pro hockey, for 10 years as a minor league goaltender. Adversity and competition are wonderful things, and learning to fight through the adversity, learning to fight through the competition, learning to compete every day in practice and wait for your opportunity to get in the lineup and take somebodys job, thats what weve tried to build the Red Wings on."[/size]

Blashill: [/size]What Ive talked to him about is making sure that when he gets his opportunities, hes ready to play great, Blashill said. Thats the No. 1 thing he can control is his play. He cant control my decision on who to play.[/size]

2 things stick out to me in those quotes. First, Backman wasn't prepared to play at a high level when he did play. Second, he doesn't deal well when things aren't going his way. If you can't do those things, I don't care how talented you are, you're not an NHL player.[/size]

Ken holland is a great gm but he was a scrap as an nhl player ... 3 games , drafted in the 12 th round .... He never really had a chance , so he's basically nathan paetsch .... Backman is a talented young defensemen who won awards and championships in his country who should of been given ice time to improve his game in North America

How's he suppose to improve sitting on his ass ? He's young and needs to play , not play once a month

Edited December 22, 2014 by nyqvististhefuture

[Buppy 1,720]

Ken holland is a great gm but he was a scrap as an nhl player ... 3 games , drafted in the 12 th round .... He never really had a chance , so he's basically nathan paetsch .... Backman is a talented young defensemen who won awards and championships in his country who should of been given ice time to improve his game in North America

How's he suppose to improve sitting on his ass ? He's young and needs to play , not play once a month

Stop exaggerating. He was scratched 7 out of 25 games. He wasn't sitting for weeks at a time or playing once a month.

He wasn't mistreated, nothing was mismanaged. He gave up, that's it.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

This is how the Wings organization is. If he was upset for being scratched 7 games (which I doubt were even back to back) think how he would've reacted if he had been in the Nyquist or Tatar situation. If he can't handle things like that without threatening to go to Sweden then I doubt he's the kind of player the Wings want. They don't just look for playing ability/potential, they seem to look for personality too. The idea of giving him different treatment than the other prospects because of accolades he earned in a different league and a sense of entitlement would piss me off more than the fact that he left. If this is "mismanagement" then everything Holland does with the prospects is mismanagement, because like it or not it's consistent.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

We don't know what's said behind closed doors , for all we know we might of told him if he came down he'd be a top 6 and get playing time ... And again none of us know how it's like to leave everyone you love behind in the country you were born to go play in an American hockey league so you can get to the nhl

Add to that he felt like it was pointless being there if he was gonna keep getting scratched .... At least he wasn't demanding to go straight to the nhl like some players do , he was willing to come work his game in the ahl , just not wit on his ass

He won't be be the last player to leave the ahl to go back home ... Just think he deserved more of a chance than a vet dman who will never be in the nhl

Grand Rapids is the wings prospects developmental team .... Not an old folks home for nhl failures to steal spots ... That's the way I see it ... Obviously you need some but if it comes to a vet or a promising player shouldn't even be close

That being said we need to make a spot for frk as well

Edited December 22, 2014 by nyqvististhefuture

[kipwinger 8,518]

It's not like he was treated like Martin Frk and sent down to Toledo. He played 18 of 25 games for Grand Rapids. He was given plenty of opportunity to grab a spot, especially considering Sproul didn't start out well and was by no means a lock in the lineup until the last four or five games.

Secondly, contrary to the current narrative that AHL veterans are holding back others' development, I'd argue that they're absolutely vital to it. I think everybody would agree that making the Calder Cup playoffs and going on a run is a HUGE boost for young players' development. Every player that won the Calder a couple years ago talked about what an important developmental opportunity it was. You don't make those kinds of runs without veteran AHL guys on the team. Every single AHL team has them because they're important, and we're no different.

Edited December 22, 2014 by kipwinger

[number9 3,297]

I think it has more to do with not having an enforcer. Maybe Backman would have been more comfortable on NA ice if a guy like Punchy McLaren or Punchy Orr was on our AHL team.

[Guest DeGraa55]

We don't know what's said behind closed doors , for all we know we might of told him if he came down he'd be a top 6 and get playing time ... And again none of us know how it's like to leave everyone you love behind in the country you were born to go play in an American hockey league so you can get to the nhl

Add to that he felt like it was pointless being there if he was gonna keep getting scratched .... At least he wasn't demanding to go straight to the nhl like some players do , he was willing to come work his game in the ahl , just not wit on his ass

He won't be be the last player to leave the ahl to go back home ... Just think he deserved more of a chance than a vet dman who will never be in the nhl

Grand Rapids is the wings prospects developmental team .... Not an old folks home for nhl failures to steal spots ... That's the way I see it ... Obviously you need some but if it comes to a vet or a promising player shouldn't even be close

That being said we need to make a spot for frk as well

You also need to understand that the Devos family that owns the griffins and van Andels who own the arena appear to be quite loyal like illitch. And they also are all about doing the right thing for everybody. You know like the kids in little league everyone gets a trophy even for being a loser or participation trophies.

So if they're involved in any way I can gurantee they'd play a part in keeping guys like Hoggan and Evans.

The owners are te same owners that won't let the announcers say "and such and such team is back to full strength". Because the crowd would chant "and they still suck".

You want some very political correct boring hockey go to the griffins.

Edited December 22, 2014 by DeGraa55

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

Get this topic back on track, take your debate to PM if you can't keep it under control on the public boards. I already had to edit out parts of this, continued insults back and forth to each other will not end well for either of you. Thanks.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

It's not like he was treated like Martin Frk and sent down to Toledo. He played 18 of 25 games for Grand Rapids. He was given plenty of opportunity to grab a spot, especially considering Sproul didn't start out well and was by no means a lock in the lineup until the last four or five games.

Secondly, contrary to the current narrative that AHL veterans are holding back others' development, I'd argue that they're absolutely vital to it. I think everybody would agree that making the Calder Cup playoffs and going on a run is a HUGE boost for young players' development. Every player that won the Calder a couple years ago talked about what an important developmental opportunity it was. You don't make those kinds of runs without veteran AHL guys on the team. Every single AHL team has them because they're important, and we're no different.

Wasn't sproul like -10 not that long ago and really struggling ? don't remember reading anything about him being scratched a bunch of games

I'm not saying having some vets aren't important , but when you need to make room for a top prospect over someone who's like 32 and not nhl bound it shouldn't even be a contest , how else are they to improve? Especially a guy like backman who's not use to playing in big ice who would benefit from it more than guys who play junior hockey here

And again I can't blame backman or anyone else for going back , didn't datsyuk come straight to the nhl? At like 24 I think? Not exactly the age Ud think datsyuk would of started his career , zetterberg didn't do ahl

Not saying backman is as good , just saying some guys just don't wanna come unless it's for the nhl and he was willing to spend the whole year in the ahl

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He's not some kid who came up from a junior league either. He was on the top pairing of a top team in the SHL, played in every situation and ended last season with the best +- in the entire league, played for the Swedish national team and then came here and had an excellent playoffs.

Sure he should've just buckled down and fought through it but I can understand that being benched over guys that are never going anywhere has to be very frustrating.

I'm sure it was frustrating. He wasn't being sat because there was some conspiracy against him though, he was sitting because he wasn't food enough. That means either he's really not that good, or he is that good but wasn't putting in the work. Again, he had lots of chances, it was up to him to take advantage of that and didn't. People are acting like he played 5 minutes a game and was scratched 80% of the time.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I agree - AHL veterans are important. I think guys like Paestch, Hoggan, Miele (even though he's only 26, he strikes me as a career AHL guy) and Porter have their place on this team, 100%. Those guys provide leadership, chip in offensively and make their line mates better. I understand the defense core is pretty young, but I feel like Ouellet and Marchenko are fairly stable in their own right, and I'd even trust Jensen to a lesser extent.

If the argument is that Backman's the low man on the totem pole, and he's irrelevant because the other prospects are better than he is, then what is Evans? All of the vets I mentioned provide more than Evans does. Again, if we're going to take one "lesser" player, I'd rather take the guy who's going to potentially be a member of the Red Wings in the future. Heck, I'd be all for Nedomlel playing over Backman if he deserved it - at least he's considered a prospect and could play for the Wings down the road, doubtful as it may be.

I get we're kind of spinning our wheels here - there's not much middle ground on this one. I just feel as if this team moving Kindl is long overdue, and Evans on this the Griffins is redundant with the existing veterans. Either guy being gone would have assuaged the situation. For me, it just comes down to a guy we know is as good as done with this team and an AHL vet with minimal contributions being kept over someone who could make a difference down the road.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Wasn't sproul like -10 not that long ago and really struggling ? don't remember reading anything about him being scratched a bunch of games

I'm not saying having some vets aren't important , but when you need to make room for a top prospect over someone who's like 32 and not nhl bound it shouldn't even be a contest , how else are they to improve? Especially a guy like backman who's not use to playing in big ice who would benefit from it more than guys who play junior hockey here

And again I can't blame backman or anyone else for going back , didn't datsyuk come straight to the nhl? At like 24 I think? Not exactly the age Ud think datsyuk would of started his career , zetterberg didn't do ahl

Not saying backman is as good , just saying some guys just don't wanna come unless it's for the nhl and he was willing to spend the whole year in the ahl

I'm pretty sure Sproul was scratched. Three or four games I think. Since then he's responded and he's tied for the lead in defense scoring and his pluus minus has shaped up. He also doesn't weigh 175 lbs. Which is likely another reason Blackman was having a hard time finding a spot on the roster. He's too light to handle a physical north american game. And unlike almqvist, he wasn't producing tons of points.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I'm pretty sure Sproul was scratched. Three or four games I think. Since then he's responded and he's tied for the lead in defense scoring and his pluus minus has shaped up. He also doesn't weigh 175 lbs. Which is likely another reason Blackman was having a hard time finding a spot on the roster. He's too light to handle a physical north american game. And unlike almqvist, he wasn't producing tons of points.

Maybe he would have with more time? 18 games in the ahl isn't enough time to say someone's a bust and even though he wasn't producing offensively I wouldn't say being -3 was awful for a rookie

Almquist is another guy we lost cause he got fed up of waiting even though he stayed in the ahl for years( for all we know maybe backman saw that along with the healthy scratches and figured wasn't worth it?)

Not saying almquist is a star but if guys like yannick weber and Raphael diaz are still in the nhl I'm sure almquist could of gotten a spot somewhere

[number9 3,297]

If you willing leave the Wings - the freaking Detroit Red Wings - for Europe, good riddance. We can argue all day about what time he should have got and what management should have done, but at the end of the day there are two types of players. Guys who will jump ship when things get bad for them, and guys who will grit their teeth and work that much harder to get to the top. Unfortunately, deserved or not, Backman was the former. I'd rather have the Tatars and Nyquists, who put their noses to the grind stone and fought for their spots than the Backmans of the world. Goodluck to him in Sweden.

[Buppy 1,720]

Maybe he would have with more time? 18 games in the ahl isn't enough time to say someone's a bust and even though he wasn't producing offensively I wouldn't say being -3 was awful for a rookie

...

Then he should have stayed. Doesn't seem anyone asked him to go. By all reports it was his choice. Regardless of how you want to spin it, he was playing. He was getting opportunities. He would have continued to receive playing time. Maybe not every game, though he might have gotten there with time. You keep acting like we brought him over here, locked him in a closet without letting him even sniff the ice, then launched him back home when he complained.

He got, was getting, and would have kept getting opportunities. He will get more in the future should he choose to come back (assuming we don't trade him).

I don't think anyone is saying he's a bust based on his performance. Probably has no future in Detroit, but that's just because there isn't that much room, and others are currently doing better. But I will say that if a player can't handle being benched for a few games here and there while developing, that player probably doesn't have a chance at the NHL. Maybe a star player, someone clearly better than his competition, could have that attitude, but not someone like Backman.