Where were team-mates on the Smith headshot

[number9 3,297]

I agree with your position on fighting, but I don't really want to make his a pro vs. anti fighting thread.

And you're right, I am assuming people would react differently. That's because in all my life, I've never known a sports fan who was ok with with a questionable referee decision if said decision wasn't in their teams' favor. Occasionally fans will begrudgingly accept a refs' decision if it's too obvious to ignore, or else the outcome of the decision is inconsequential. But if it matters at all, every fan will always take their teams' side. That's what being a fan is all about. So if Smith is winning it's "let em' go ref" and if he's losing it's, "they need to get involved earlier".

Same with penalties. Think about it. People ***** and moan about the refs CONSTANTLY on this site, but conveniently leave out the part about how the Wings get more powerplays than almost every other team in the league. Pretty mum on that one, because it helps us out.

Cause other teams are mean and we're nice

[Smite 399]

I agree with your position on fighting, but I don't really want to make his a pro vs. anti fighting thread.

And you're right, I am assuming people would react differently. That's because in all my life, I've never known a sports fan who was ok with with a questionable referee decision if said decision wasn't in their teams' favor. Occasionally fans will begrudgingly accept a refs' decision if it's too obvious to ignore, or else the outcome of the decision is inconsequential. But if it matters at all, every fan will always take their teams' side. That's what being a fan is all about. So if Smith is winning it's "let em' go ref" and if he's losing it's, "they need to get involved earlier".

Same with penalties. Think about it. People ***** and moan about the refs CONSTANTLY on this site, but conveniently leave out the part about how the Wings get more powerplays than almost every other team in the league. Pretty mum on that one, because it helps us out.

Good point and well put. If your going to have fighting stay in hockey you need to protect the ones that get involved. In the heat of the moment you do not think "hey if I stop now maybe a ref will come in" or "this guy cant see I will stop now". By no means is Smith innocent, he hacked him pretty bad after the high hit then broke his stick over his back. But the fight should have stopped soon as he could not see because the jersey is over his head and the fight strap was preventing the jersey to come off.

[matt198913 932]

He did get him with a pretty damn good cross check. That was vicious and well deserved.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

You guys expected someone on this team to stick up for Smith?

Regarding the jersey over the head, Smith was still throwing with it over his head. I'm fine with the refs letting it continue so long as the guy with the jersey over his head is still throwing. The refs have been intervening too early in fights this year, and I think that will be the new norm. It should be enjoyed when a fight is allowed to run its course.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

You guys expected someone on this team to stick up for Smith?

Regarding the jersey over the head, Smith was still throwing with it over his head. I'm fine with the refs letting it continue so long as the guy with the jersey over his head is still throwing. The refs have been intervening too early in fights this year, and I think that will be the new norm. It should be enjoyed when a fight is allowed to run its course.

Great post finally someone is sharing my views on toughness. A few years ago guys like Dmac, Downie or even Shanahan would have wiped the floor with enemies but now the team is a bunch of small fairies that's too easy to intimidate and that's against a Leafs team that didn't even ice Orr and McClaren.

Disgusting for a team that once had the heavyweight belt. And people are still wondering why the season ticket list turned from a waiting list to running commercials... The mixture just isn't there. Former Wings were exciting to watch because they were built in skill, grit and an overall hardworking hockey club who could beat the other team in many ways and stood up for each other. The Lemieux incident nowadays would result in a crying for Quinta instead of taking justice in the own hand and let someone go Berserk soon sad

Edited December 15, 2014 by frankgrimes

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Great post finally someone is sharing my views on toughness. A few years ago guys like Dmac, Downie or even Shanahan would have wiped the floor with enemies but now the team is a bunch of small fairies that's too easy to intimidate and that's against a Leafs team that didn't even ice Orr and McClaren. Disgusting for a team that once had the heavyweight belt. And people are still wondering why the season ticket list turned from a waiting list to running commercials... The mixture just isn't there. Former Wings were exciting to watch because they were built in skill, grit and an overall hardworking hockey club who could beat the other team in many ways and stood up for each other. The Lemieux incident nowadays would result in a crying for Quinta instead of taking justice in the own hand and let someone go Berserk soon sad

Yeah, I think there's still a need for players that can scrap but they've got to be able to play, too. The era of the heavyweight enforcer is basically over at this point. There are still a few around, but many have been demoted or just unable to find NHL roster spots. Orr and McLaren have been in the AHL all year. Westgarth couldn't get an NHL contract. Bissonnette is in the AHL I believe. Krys Barch couldn't find a roster spot. Matt Kassian couldn't, either. Jay Rosehill has been in the AHL all year, too. And even the remaining "heavyweights" that have roster spots haven't really been active:

Brian McGrattan: 8 GP, 0 fighting majors

John Scott: 12 GP, 2 fighting majors

Luke Gazdic: 10 GP, 2 fighting majors

Eric Boulton: 4 GP, 0 fighting majors

Shawn Thornton: 22 GP, 3 fighting majors

Anthony Peluso: 11 GP, 2 fighting majors

Tom Sestito: 2 GP, 0 fighting majors

Patrick Bordeleau has been inactive due to injury

Middleweight scrappers that can play are the new norm with regards to fighting.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[Smite 399]

Great post finally someone is sharing my views on toughness. A few years ago guys like Dmac, Downie or even Shanahan would have wiped the floor with enemies but now the team is a bunch of small fairies that's too easy to intimidate and that's against a Leafs team that didn't even ice Orr and McClaren. Disgusting for a team that once had the heavyweight belt. And people are still wondering why the season ticket list turned from a waiting list to running commercials... The mixture just isn't there. Former Wings were exciting to watch because they were built in skill, grit and an overall hardworking hockey club who could beat the other team in many ways and stood up for each other. The Lemieux incident nowadays would result in a crying for Quinta instead of taking justice in the own hand and let someone go Berserk soon sad

So your blaming poor ticket sales on the fact we don't fight anymore.... Would have nothing to do with the economy.

I would love for you to explain to Bob Probert's wife and 4 kids as well as countless other familys that lost someone way too soon because it will sell more tickets. Ignoring the long term effects of head trauma due to toughness is ignorance.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Yeah, I think there's still a need for players that can scrap but they've got to be able to play, too. The era of the heavyweight enforcer is basically over at this point. There are still a few around, but many have been demoted or just unable to find NHL roster spots. Orr and McLaren have been in the AHL all year. Westgarth couldn't get an NHL contract. Bissonnette is in the AHL I believe. Krys Barch couldn't find a roster spot. Matt Kassian couldn't, either. Jay Rosehill has been in the AHL all year, too. And even the remaining "heavyweights" that have roster spots haven't really been active:

Brian McGrattan: 8 GP, 0 fighting majors

John Scott: 12 GP, 2 fighting majors

Luke Gazdic: 10 GP, 2 fighting majors

Eric Boulton: 4 GP, 0 fighting majors

Shawn Thornton: 22 GP, 3 fighting majors

Anthony Peluso: 11 GP, 2 fighting majors

Tom Sestito: 2 GP, 0 fighting majors

Patrick Bordeleau has been inactive due to injury

Middleweight scrappers that can play are the new norm with regards to fighting.

The problem is some are so good at their job they can't find any takers because most are playing in the nhl now. The game really lacks that energy element fights are down so are bone crushing hits

I mean if I wanted to watch that I could watch euro hockey at much better hours ahl hockey was just so much more entertaining.

Edited December 15, 2014 by frankgrimes

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

You're making assumptions here. Not too many people would be happy about that. I wouldn't want to see someone on the wings win a fight by cheating. If he loses fairly then it's all well and good. If he wins fairly then I'm happy. If cheating is involved to create a clear advantage on either side the fight should be stopped immediately.

We've won so few fights over the years, that I wouldn't mind if a Wings player pulled a foreign object out of his pants (a la Ric Flair) and used it on his opponent.

So your blaming poor ticket sales on the fact we don't fight anymore.... Would have nothing to do with the economy.

I would love for you to explain to Bob Probert's wife and 4 kids as well as countless other familys that lost someone way too soon because it will sell more tickets. Ignoring the long term effects of head trauma due to toughness is ignorance.

That's true, but Bob Probert made a lot of money for his family because of fighting. Granted, he could play and score, but other enforcers couldn't, and still made good money. You can't have it both ways sometimes. That's what their job called for is fighting.

Middleweight scrappers that can play are the new norm with regards to fighting.

Honestly, I fall asleep watching those middleweight fighters scrap.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

So your blaming poor ticket sales on the fact we don't fight anymore.... Would have nothing to do with the economy.

I would love for you to explain to Bob Probert's wife and 4 kids as well as countless other familys that lost someone way too soon because it will sell more tickets. Ignoringthe long term effects of head trauma due to toughness isignorance.

I've written it's a mixture of a lot things economy, losing so much talent and a total change in philosophy. Remember the time when Dmac scored fans went crazy, or when Kronwall kronwalled other players?

Smith had to stick up for himself after a hard check and nobody stood up for him I don't think that's exciting...

Edited December 15, 2014 by frankgrimes

[number9 3,297]

The problem is some are so good at their job they can't find any takers because most are playing in the nhl now. The game really lacks that energy element fights are down so are bone crushing hits I mean if I wanted to watch that I could watch euro hockey at much better hours ahl hockey was just so much more entertaining.

Are you saying that the current fighters out there are so good that no one dares to challenge them when they're on the ice? Isn't that a perfect system? Not a broken one? Let's remember that the enforcer system was meant to keep the other team honest by basically being in fear of the other teams enforcer. That's not what we're seeing.

I think it's much more likely that no one give's a crap about Mclaren or Mcgrattan. Maybe if they learned to actually play the sport instead of just being 4th line plugs with meaty knuckles other players and coaches (and not just bloodthirsty fans) would pay attention.

Edited December 15, 2014 by number9

[frankgrimes 1,836]

You're making assumptions here. Not too many people would be happy about that. I wouldn't want to see someone on the wings win a fight by cheating. If he loses fairly then it's all well and good. If he wins fairly then I'm happy. If cheating is involved to create a clear advantage on either side the fight should be stopped immediately.

We've won so few fights over the years, that I wouldn't mind if a Wings player pulled a foreign object out of his pants (a la Ric Flair) and used it on his opponent.

So your blaming poor ticket sales on the fact we don't fight anymore.... Would have nothing to do with the economy.

I would love for you to explain to Bob Probert's wife and 4 kids as well as countless other familys that lost someone way too soon because it will sell more tickets. Ignoring the long term effects of head trauma due to toughness is ignorance.

That's true, but Bob Probert made a lot of money for his family because of fighting. Granted, he could play and score, but other enforcers couldn't, and still made good money. You can't have it both ways sometimes. That's what their job called for is fighting.

Middleweight scrappers that can play are the new norm with regards to fighting.

Honestly, I fall asleep watching those middleweight fighters scrap.

Save for Engelland, Gallant, McQaid and sometimes Simmons middleweight fights are extremely boring and the difference in fighting skills becomes obvious.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Honestly, I fall asleep watching those middleweight fighters scrap.

Yeah, guys like Crombeen, Hendricks and McLeod are generally boring, but at least they're willing. Then again, some middleweights like Tanner Glass, Matt Martin, and Wayne Simmonds can throw pretty well. Some middleweights that were exciting earlier in their career hardly even fight anymore. Dan Carcillo is a classic example.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Yeah, guys like Crombeen, Hendricks and McLeod are generally boring, but at least they're willing. Then again, some middleweights like Tanner Glass, Matt Martin, and Wayne Simmonds can throw pretty well. Some middleweights that were exciting earlier in their career hardly even fight anymore. Dan Carcillo is a classic example.

Garcillo to me is a mixture between an agitator and a fighter but I wouldn't call him a pure enforcer. The guy is a bit of a spotpicker.

Thank you for mentioning Crombeen and McLeod forgot these two yeah, they are fun to watch. But what I'm trying to say it's not just about fi ghting its about sticking up for eachother, be a close bunch you know a blue collar hockey club. At least in 2 years tops someone named McKee will come in and make sure there is someone sneaky coming around the corner if players want to take liberties with our smaller guys or star players.

Edited December 15, 2014 by frankgrimes

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Garcillo to me is a mixture between an agitator and a fighter but I wouldn't call him a pure enforcer. The guy is a bit of a spotpicker.

Thank you for mentioning Crombeen and McLeod forgot these two yeah, they are fun to watch.

But what I'm trying to say it's not just about fi ghting its about sticking up for eachother, be a close bunch you know a blue collar hockey club.

Yeah, Carcillo's never been a pure enforcer and definitely has turned into a spot-picking nobody these past couple years. I'm saying he was a lot more exciting earlier in his career when he was with the 'Yotes.

Props to Crombeen and McLeod for being willing, but they're mediocre fighters. Crombeen is a technical fighter to the point where he'll grab his opponent's arm for dear life and throw two punches and wait for the refs to come in. He was more exciting earlier in his career, too.

Regarding McKee, it'd be nice but don't get your hopes up.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[Kmahrle83 61]

We've won so few fights over the years, that I wouldn't mind if a Wings player pulled a foreign object out of his pants (a la Ric Flair) and used it on his opponent.

bonus points if the player and crowd all chant WHOOOOO after each punch

[Mckinley25 677]

Save for Engelland, Gallant, McQaid and sometimes Simmons middleweight fights are extremely boring and the difference in fighting skills becomes obvious.

Watching heavyweight's play hockey is what's boring.

[number9 3,297]

Not to nit pick, but Probie's death was caused by cardiac arrest aka a heart attack (years of alcohol, and drug abuse were contributing factors).

But yes - his brain was donated for research, and signs of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy) were present.

And brain damage also tends to only worsen drug and alcohol abuse

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Watching heavyweight's play hockey is what's boring.

You've never seen Gino Odjick take a shift have you?

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Watching heavyweight's play hockey is what's boring.

Yeah because the direction the game is going is so much more fun to watch.

Lets take the action out of every sport. Then we will be left with a bunch of under sized pansies passing flowers to each other.

Edited December 16, 2014 by hillbillywingsfan

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Yeah because the direction the game is going is so much more fun to watch.

Lets take the action out of every sport. Then we will be left with a bunch of under sized pansies passing flowers to each other.

I agree. Brian Burke is trying to get rid of the vanilla midgets. I wish the other GM's were on the same page as him.

[kipwinger 8,496]

Yeah because the direction the game is going is so much more fun to watch.

Lets take the action out of every sport. Then we will be left with a bunch of under sized pansies passing flowers to each other.

I like how in your mind "the action" of hockey and penalties are the same thing. You want the league to leave game misconducts alone, so that you can enjoy the "action". Lol. Nevermind what happens between the whistles, that s***'s boring. The real stuff comes after the play is dead. And one day, if we're really lucky, all the fun stuff about hockey will happen after the game is completely over. Then we can just watch Dan Carcillo and Zac Rinaldo beat the s*** out of each other in the parking lot. What a sport that will be.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I agree. Brian Burke is trying to get rid of the vanilla midgets. I wish the other GM's were on the same page as him.

Johnny Goudreau says “hi"

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Johnny Goudreau says “hi"

McGrattan and Engelland will make a man out of him yet.

I like how in your mind "the action" of hockey and penalties are the same thing. You want the league to leave game misconducts alone, so that you can enjoy the "action". Lol. Nevermind what happens between the whistles, that s***'s boring. The real stuff comes after the play is dead. And one day, if we're really lucky, all the fun stuff about hockey will happen after the game is completely over. Then we can just watch Dan Carcillo and Zac Rinaldo beat the s*** out of each other in the parking lot. What a sport that will be.

So if there's a brawl during a Wings game this year and the fans are into it, are you going to come here and post about how boring, stupid and pointless it all was? Or are you going to chant and be entertained like everyone else?

[kipwinger 8,496]

McGrattan and Engelland will make a man out of him yet.

Wouldn't McGrattan need to spend more than 6:30 minutes with him per night to have any sort of impact at all? I literally spend more time on the toilet per day than Brain McGrattan does playing hockey on game night.