All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

[Nightfall 871]

This kid is playing crazy good right now and helping this team at the best possible time. I really hope we are seeing just a little of what he can bring to the table because his ceiling could be pretty high.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Buppy, we have taken a goaltender every second year like clockwork. We took Larsson in '06, McCollum in '08, Mrazek on '10, Paterson in '12, and Perry last year in '14. My bet is on us taking another in '16 and I really don't see it as a huge need with Mrazek in the system. Kid is the real deal and should be able to man the pipes for the next decade.

I don't see the point in saying "if Datsyuk and Zetterberg were already gone..." They're not gone and we have time for these kids to grow into legit NHL players before they do. Between Sheahan, Larkin and Athanasiou, there is not a doubt in my mind they can fill the top 3 center spots.

There are top pairing defensemen and top line forwards picked late in the first round and even in the later rounds every single year. With our track record in drafting, why would you think we can't get a top player at 18/19? Do you think we need to pick in the top 5 to get a top player? I don't...

[barabbas16 499]

You gave 6 actually, and even with Sheahan and Glendening as locks for two spots, it is an enormous leap of faith to think any of our prospects can fill the two top 6 C spots. Sheahan is maybe close to be a 2/3 tweener, but doesn't look like he'll go any higher. AA and Nosek both had mediocre first years, slightly better than Helm and Emmerton, slightly worse than Abby. Hardly very promising. Holmstrom wasn't anything special, good playoff run aside, and has yet to play in NA.

Dekeyser is already closer to being a top pair D than any of our centers are to being top 6. Smith is at least 3rd pair. XO and Marchenko both spent time in the NHL, and looked decent. Both look more like good NHL players than AA, Nosek, or Holmstrom have shown. Sproul and Jensen have more questions, but I wouldn't say they're any worse than our centers.

All we really have at center is Larkin being way over-hyped. Just like we had people wanting to buy out Franzen to give Mantha a spot on the Wings before this year. He had a good year, bot not amazing or anything. It's a huge gamble to assume he's the answer to our future center needs.

It seems difficult to compare AA/Nosek vs. XO/Marchenko... XO and Marchenko (2nd year in GR) are a season ahead of AA and Nosek (1st year in GR). And, XO and Marchenko have had ample opportunity to show themselves at the NHL level, AA and Nosek have had no such opportunity.

Also, you said Mantha had a good year, but AA's year was just mediocre. I do not agree with this differentiation. Could you elaborate on why you feel that Mantha's season was better than AA's?

Edited May 15, 2015 by barabbas16

[Buppy 1,720]

Buppy, we have taken a goaltender every second year like clockwork. We took Larsson in '06, McCollum in '08, Mrazek on '10, Paterson in '12, and Perry last year in '14. My bet is on us taking another in '16 and I really don't see it as a huge need with Mrazek in the system. Kid is the real deal and should be able to man the pipes for the next decade.

I don't see the point in saying "if Datsyuk and Zetterberg were already gone..." They're not gone and we have time for these kids to grow into legit NHL players before they do. Between Sheahan, Larkin and Athanasiou, there is not a doubt in my mind they can fill the top 3 center spots.

There are top pairing defensemen and top line forwards picked late in the first round and even in the later rounds every single year. With our track record in drafting, why would you think we can't get a top player at 18/19? Do you think we need to pick in the top 5 to get a top player? I don't...

We also added Coreau as an undrafted FA in 2013. We took 5 in the 4 drafts from 2000-2003. Regardless, our depth in goal looks weak.

The point of bringing up Pav and Hank is that even though we have time, it doesn't change what our prospects will develop in to. Larkin and AA aren't more likely to become top 6 centers because they have time. It's a lot easier to be confident about the future when the present is in pretty good shape.

I said it is unlikely we'll find a top player. I didn't say it was impossible. While there are occasional home runs, there are 10 times as many that aren't. Our last big hit in the first round was Kronwall in 2000. It IS unlikely. If you want to say it is likely, go ahead and try. If you just want to say it isn't impossible, please find someone who said it is to say it to.

It seems difficult to compare AA/Nosek vs. XO/Marchenko... XO and Marchenko (2nd year in GR) are a season ahead of AA and Nosek (1st year in GR). And, XO and Marchenko have had ample opportunity to show themselves at the NHL level, AA and Nosek have had no such opportunity.

Also, you said Mantha had a good year, but AA's year was just mediocre. I do not agree with this differentiation. Could you elaborate on why you feel that Mantha's season was better than AA's?

I was saying Larkin had a good year, not Mantha.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Didn't AA and Nosek both have pretty serious injuries during the middle of the season? I think they both performed well considering A) they are AHL rookies, and B) they had long layoffs right in the middle.

I'd love to see what either of them could have done playing a large number of games consecutively. Nevertheless, both impressed me.

[joesuffP 1,746]

We actually haven't developed a competent top 4 defensemen since Kronwall.... maybe Quincey? Ericsson I guess. Still, not a great track record with defense

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

We have the starting goalie taken care of in Mrazek, and there will always be free agent veteran goalies who were starters that get cast off.

Were fine in net for a long time.

We need a high ceiling/high floor defenseman

[Nightfall 871]

We also added Coreau as an undrafted FA in 2013. We took 5 in the 4 drafts from 2000-2003. Regardless, our depth in goal looks weak.

The point of bringing up Pav and Hank is that even though we have time, it doesn't change what our prospects will develop in to. Larkin and AA aren't more likely to become top 6 centers because they have time. It's a lot easier to be confident about the future when the present is in pretty good shape.

I said it is unlikely we'll find a top player. I didn't say it was impossible. While there are occasional home runs, there are 10 times as many that aren't. Our last big hit in the first round was Kronwall in 2000. It IS unlikely. If you want to say it is likely, go ahead and try. If you just want to say it isn't impossible, please find someone who said it is to say it to.

The fact of the matter is unless we are picking in the top 10, our chances of drafting an elite player are going to be very slim. If you look at the offensive leaders this year, most of them have been high draft picks. In fact, in the top 10 this year, only Jiri Hudler and Jamie Benn were chosen in the 2nd round and later. Every other player was a 1st round high draft pick.

In the new NHL, you can draft smart like the Wings and not get a star player. You have a greater chance of landing that franchise player by having bad seasons and drafting high. This is how the Blackhawks built their team. This is how the Lightning built their new team. Here is a great article on the value of players and the draft pick position of those players in relation.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/analyzing-value-nhl-draft-picks/

In short, if we want an elite player, we either have to get lucky in the later rounds OR have a poor season and try to get a elite player in the first 5 picks and hope it pans out. Since getting an elite player is easier for those that are picking high, it would make sense to have some poor seasons to get those high draft picks. Nothing is for certain though. Its not like everyone picking #1 is drafting a stud. There have been some real dogs out there for sure.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Most of the articles that base percentages of draft picks and star players use datsyuk and zetterberg.

Which means were looking at a set of information that almost singlehandedly is skewed because of this organization.

Which is awesome.

Not saying we can't do it again, but its not as likely as it used to be.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Players will always escape the top 10 in drafts that will be stars in the nhl ... We just have to find them

I believe in our scouts

[rick zombo 3,739]

The fact of the matter is unless we are picking in the top 10, our chances of drafting an elite player are going to be very slim. If you look at the offensive leaders this year, most of them have been high draft picks. In fact, in the top 10 this year, only Jiri Hudler and Jamie Benn were chosen in the 2nd round and later. Every other player was a 1st round high draft pick.

In the new NHL, you can draft smart like the Wings and not get a star player. You have a greater chance of landing that franchise player by having bad seasons and drafting high. This is how the Blackhawks built their team. This is how the Lightning built their new team. Here is a great article on the value of players and the draft pick position of those players in relation.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/analyzing-value-nhl-draft-picks/

In short, if we want an elite player, we either have to get lucky in the later rounds OR have a poor season and try to get a elite player in the first 5 picks and hope it pans out. Since getting an elite player is easier for those that are picking high, it would make sense to have some poor seasons to get those high draft picks. Nothing is for certain though. Its not like everyone picking #1 is drafting a stud. There have been some real dogs out there for sure.

But it is possible to get an allstar D man in outside of the top 10:

Weber - 2nd round

Subban - 2nd round

Keith - 2nd Round

Even Karlsson went 15th.

There is hope.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

The fact of the matter is unless we are picking in the top 10, our chances of drafting an elite player are going to be very slim. If you look at the offensive leaders this year, most of them have been high draft picks. In fact, in the top 10 this year, only Jiri Hudler and Jamie Benn were chosen in the 2nd round and later. Every other player was a 1st round high draft pick.

In the new NHL, you can draft smart like the Wings and not get a star player. You have a greater chance of landing that franchise player by having bad seasons and drafting high. This is how the Blackhawks built their team. This is how the Lightning built their new team. Here is a great article on the value of players and the draft pick position of those players in relation.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/analyzing-value-nhl-draft-picks/

In short, if we want an elite player, we either have to get lucky in the later rounds OR have a poor season and try to get a elite player in the first 5 picks and hope it pans out. Since getting an elite player is easier for those that are picking high, it would make sense to have some poor seasons to get those high draft picks. Nothing is for certain though. Its not like everyone picking #1 is drafting a stud. There have been some real dogs out there for sure.

But it is possible to get an allstar D man in outside of the top 10:

Weber - 2nd round

Subban - 2nd round

Keith - 2nd Round

Even Karlsson went 15th.

There is hope.

Nope we should just sell the team. No hope at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Buppy 1,720]

We have the starting goalie taken care of in Mrazek, and there will always be free agent veteran goalies who were starters that get cast off.

Were fine in net for a long time.

We need a high ceiling/high floor defenseman

The whole point of having a prospect pool is organizational depth. So you don't pin all your hopes on one person. A lot of things could happen. He could fail to pan out. Could get injured. Could leave in a year or 4 years. But it's not about that really. You can be confident in Mrazek but still want to have some depth in the system. Right now our goalie depth is poor.

We do need a high ceiling defenseman, but we need a high ceiling center too. Both would be good first round options. Whichever has the better player will be the better option.

[Nightfall 871]

But it is possible to get an allstar D man in outside of the top 10:

Weber - 2nd round

Subban - 2nd round

Keith - 2nd Round

Even Karlsson went 15th.

There is hope.

Absolutely there is hope. The chance of it happening goes down considerably after the first round though. Who knows, we may have someone in our organization right now that could be that elite player. We just don't know right now.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

27 j Carlson

32 s voynov

35 vlasic

38 josi

45 petry

62 letang

64 t barrie

105 yandle

114 Brodie

141 muzzin

216 stralman

Some pretty good dmen to come out later in the drafts than top 10-15

There some guys gonna be available... Again we just need to find them ... If could some how end up trading back and drafting 3dmen in the 2nd round I got no doubt we'll find someone

If you look back you'll see a lot d's in the top 20 that never amounted to anything so no need to panic if we don't get someone we like In the top 15

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

The whole point of having a prospect pool is organizational depth. So you don't pin all your hopes on one person. A lot of things could happen. He could fail to pan out. Could get injured. Could leave in a year or 4 years. But it's not about that really. You can be confident in Mrazek but still want to have some depth in the system. Right now our goalie depth is poor.

We do need a high ceiling defenseman, but we need a high ceiling center too. Both would be good first round options. Whichever has the better player will be the better option.

You don't waste assets on a goalie when you have one that's capable of being a starting goalie at 21.

A 6th or 7th round pick, sure, why the hell not.

But Perry's not a slouch, McCollum rebounded and player solid when he played in Detroit, plus we have coreau who is not bad either, and they all need playing time to get better, so where would all these goalies play? Wed have another logjam like we did at forward... we have depth,and most of them could be servicable as a back up with NHL goaltender coaches...

If we have an Injury plague at the goalie position you can trade for a good one with the 2nd or 3rd rounder you didn't waste on one when you didn't need it.

Not to mention we still have Jimmy four 4or5 years still too.

Mrazek will get a bridge deal to figure out what's happening with the starting job which will give us time to draft another one in 2016, like was already said.

And I didn't say we didn't have any high ceiling defenders, I said we need a high ceiling/HIGH FLOOR guy, meaning even if he doesn't reach his potential, hell still be a good too four guy. Which we can get where we are

Edited May 15, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[Buppy 1,720]

You don't waste assets on a goalie when you have one that's capable of being a starting goalie at 21.

A 6th or 7th round pick, sure, why the hell not.

But Perry's not a slouch, McCollum rebounded and player solid when he played in Detroit, plus we have coreau who is not bad either, and they all need playing time to get better, so where would all these goalies play? Wed have another logjam like we did at forward... we have depth,and most of them could be servicable as a back up with NHL goaltender coaches...

If we have an Injury plague at the goalie position you can trade for a good one with the 2nd or 3rd rounder you didn't waste on one when you didn't need it.

Not to mention we still have Jimmy four 4or5 years still too.

Mrazek will get a bridge deal to figure out what's happening with the starting job which will give us time to draft another one in 2016, like was already said.

And I didn't say we didn't have any high ceiling defenders, I said we need a high ceiling/HIGH FLOOR guy, meaning even if he doesn't reach his potential, hell still be a good too four guy. Which we can get where we are

McCollum is a UFA, going to be 26 next season, and in an organization where he has essentially zero shot at making the NHL roster. He may not want to come back even if we want him back. If we do get him back, it's likely only because no other team in the league thinks he has a chance to be an NHL goalie. Paterson and Coreau could maybe one day be NHL backups, if they can develop further. Perry is too soon to tell.

But we're getting a little far afield from my original comment. In terms of prospect depth, goalie is our weakest position. I didn't say we need to draft 7 of them. Didn't say we need to take one in the 1st (in fact I said we shouldn't do that). Ultimately, there's not much difference between a 3rd or 4th and a 6th or 7th, or this year or next. But I don't know why we'd wait.

And I'm not arguing the need for a defenseman. I specifically agreed with that. I'm saying we also have the same need at center.

[SUPERSTUD 0]

All hail lil Bert!!!!! Best prospect since Matha was the best prospect until everyone turned on him. Welcome to LGWs. Where an appropriate sample size for a player is two weeks. Give or take.

Bertuzzi takin' bull by the horns; mantha who?

[rick zombo 3,739]

Bertuzzi takin' bull by the horns; mantha who?

Reminds me of the joke about the young bull and the old bull on the top of a hill, staring at a field of cows..........

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Blashill on bertuzzi ...

"It's a small sample size I've seen so far," Grand Rapids coach Jeff Blashill told the Free Press, "but from what I've seen, Tyler is a guy who can bring an edge to a line, bring a hardness to a line, but who also has the good skills and good thought process to play with good players."

Blashill cited Abdelkader, who worked his way up from grinder to serving as puck-retriever and net-front presence for Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg. "That's what Tyler appears to me to be," Blashill said.

Bertuzzi only turned pro last month, joining the Griffins for two games at the end of the regular season. A case of flu sidelined him when the playoffs began, but he's since contributed five goals and three assists in seven games. His goal output is second on the team (behind Teemu Pulkkinen's 12 in nine games) and his points are third (and five points more than that of Anthony Mantha, Detroit's 2013 first-round selection).

It helped that Bertuzzi joined the Griffins after a scorching finale with the OHL's Guelph Storm, where he hit 43 goals and 55 assists for 98 points in 68 games.

"He came to us and made an immediate impact," Blashill said. "He came to our team with lots of confidence, and was able to bring that to our league. He's also had success because of the type of player he is - he's hard, he goes to the net hard, is strong on the puck. He's a playoff-type player."

[Rivalred 630]

Really do hope Mantha turns things around

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

He will.

[marcaractac 3,962]

Pulks does it again. 1-0 Griffins

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Pulkky PPG 5 min in... 1-0 Griffs

[HockeytownRules19 902]

3-0 griffins a few minutes into the 2nd