P. Marlowe 748 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) TSN.ca/nhl The math freaks are at it again. Detroit Red Wings – In a 3-1 win over New Jersey on New Year’s Eve, the Red Wings outshot the Devils 28-13. This was practically a perfect storm for stifling shots, at least in a game not involving the Buffalo Sabres. The Red Wings allow a league-leading 45.30 shot attempts against per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play this season, while the Devils generate a paltry 47.23 shot attempts 60 minutes (only the Sabres, at 39.52 are lower). Detroit’s best shot suppressor is C Riley Sheahan, who starts more than 62% of his shifts in the offensive zone and allows a league-best 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play. Among players with at least 400 minutes of 5-on-5 play this season: SHOT ATTEMPTS AGAINST, PER 60 MINUTES AT 5-ON-5 PLAYER TEAM POS. CA/60 Riley Sheahan Detroit C 37.7 Tomas Tatar Detroit LW 40.3 Jaromir Jagr New Jersey RW 42.9 Anton Stralman Tampa Bay D 43.6 Brendan Smith Detroit D 43.8 Come to think of it Red Wings are fifth in the league in GAA. This with Kindl, Quincey and Ericsson in the top six. I haven't watched many games this season, but I've understood that the team defence has been very good. It's a thing that doesn't draw attention as much as mistakes like bad turnovers do. Edited January 3, 2015 by P. Marlowe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsallTheway 383 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 our defense has been good because we have 5 defensive defenceman. Its good that babs is using what he has effectively, but we still need another solid offensive defenceman in order to make the next step Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 Forwards playing defense and not creating offense.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 So far, so good, I guess. I mean, we're competitive in the division and conference standings, so that's good. But then I remember the team that couldn't score against Boston in the playoffs, and that's bad. Most of the time I don't know what to think about this team. Obviously limiting other teams' shots is really important. And obviously we're good at doing it. But I think there's a difference between limiting shots because you've got the puck all the time (which we don't), and limiting shots because you clog up the neutral zone, and trap teams into oblivion (which we do). Generally speaking I like the former (because you play in the o-zone more), and don't like the later (because it rarely works in the playoffs). Right now, I see this strategy getting us pinned into our zone against good teams, and ultimately stifling our offense. But maybe a trade and/or a promotion will change all that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 I respect Mirtle, Yost and all their other mathfreaks but as soon as I see their name ---> skip article. If I wanted to read math stuff I'd look somewhere else and not at a sports site...with a horrible design 1 anthonyn66 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Greek 323 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I respect Mirtle, Yost and all their other mathfreaks but as soon as I see their name ---> skip article. If I wanted to read math stuff I'd look somewhere else and not at a sports site...with a horrible design It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. Edited January 3, 2015 by The Greek 12 Dabura, Wheelchairsuperhero, kipwinger and 9 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. +1 1 korrowan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 "Mathfreaks?" Is this a thing now? Cuz, if so, we should start calling Babcock Mr. Mathfreak, since he luvs teh mathz. Also, we should stop using numbers altogether. Goals, assists, PP%, PK%, faceoff %, shots on goal, shots against, scoring chances, blocked shots, turnovers, takeaways, wins-losses-OT, save percentage, GAA, hits... WHAT MATTERS IS FIGHTS. YOU CAN'T MEASURE TOUGHNESS WITH A CALCULATOR. BUT MATHFREAKS DON'T GET THAT. CUZ THEY DON'T ACTUALLY WATCH THE GAMES. 5 number9, krsmith17, kipwinger and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greenrebellion 415 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. +2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 I don't have a problem with the newer analytics themselves (admittedly I'm still sorting out what all the stats measure). The problem I have is how routinely they're misused and misinterpreted, including this article. They call Sheahan Detroit's best shot suppressor, then point out he starts more than 62% of his shifts in the offensive zone. So in one sentence they've drawn a faulty conclusion from the statistics and even included the reason why they're wrong. Very likely Sheahan isn't Detroit's best shot suppressor. When you start the vast majority of your shifts in the offensive zone, that means your opponent has to go a long way to register a shot attempt. Glendening on the other hand, starts in the offensive zone less than 33% of the time. Two-thirds of his shifts, he's starting in front of his own net, so there's going to be a lot more shot attempts from his opponent. Then in subtler ways, they often use language that draws conclusions not supported by the stats. It's not that Sheahan himself only "allows" 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of play. It means that when Sheahan is on the ice, the other team only gets 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of play. That's it. But people constantly make the logical leap that the statistic says something specifically that a player is doing on the ice. That's a HUGE difference. 5 PavelValerievichDatsyuk, krsmith17, Echolalia and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 I don't have a problem with the newer analytics themselves (admittedly I'm still sorting out what all the stats measure). The problem I have is how routinely they're misused and misinterpreted, including this article. They call Sheahan Detroit's best shot suppressor, then point out he starts more than 62% of his shifts in the offensive zone. So in one sentence they've drawn a faulty conclusion from the statistics and even included the reason why they're wrong. Very likely Sheahan isn't Detroit's best shot suppressor. When you start the vast majority of your shifts in the offensive zone, that means your opponent has to go a long way to register a shot attempt. Glendening on the other hand, starts in the offensive zone less than 33% of the time. Two-thirds of his shifts, he's starting in front of his own net, so there's going to be a lot more shot attempts from his opponent. Then in subtler ways, they often use language that draws conclusions not supported by the stats. It's not that Sheahan himself only "allows" 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of play. It means that when Sheahan is on the ice, the other team only gets 37.7 shot attempts per 60 minutes of play. That's it. But people constantly make the logical leap that the statistic says something specifically that a player is doing on the ice. That's a HUGE difference. I think it's interesting that Babs is starting to specialize his players zone starts. A few years ago I remember reading an article about players zone starts by team. Detroit was the closest to an even 50%. Meaning Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson, everyone, was required to play both O and D. Now we see guys like Luker being used heavily as a defensive weapon. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 I think it's interesting that Babs is starting to specialize his players zone starts. A few years ago I remember reading an article about players zone starts by team. Detroit was the closest to an even 50%. Meaning Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson, everyone, was required to play both O and D. Now we see guys like Luker being used heavily as a defensive weapon. Agreed. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with our blueline. If you look at who gets the fewest offensive zone starts on the team, it's Miller, Andersson and Glendening by a country mile. Even trustworthy guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk start in the offensive zone 60% of the time. Kindl and Lashoff, unsurprisingly start in the offensive zone 70% of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 Agreed. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with our blueline. If you look at who gets the fewest offensive zone starts on the team, it's Miller, Andersson and Glendening by a country mile. Even trustworthy guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk start in the offensive zone 60% of the time. Kindl and Lashoff, unsurprisingly start in the offensive zone 70% of the time. I think that line is vastly under-appreciated. It's the only line that has been intact all season and consistently worked. 1 marcaractac reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 I think that line is vastly under-appreciated. It's the only line that has been intact all season and consistently worked. regardless of who they're matched up against, to boot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,476 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's amazing that kindl gets 70% offensive starts yet is still the root calls of most turnovers and goals/2 on 1's and quality scoring chances against. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trule23 119 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. +3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheXym 2,606 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. +4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. +5 ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted January 3, 2015 It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. + 6! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) It's ok, a lot of people are frightened by things they don't understand. +7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the Wings are 5th in the league in GA per game, but they let the most shots in per game during 5 on 5 play, wouldn't this be a statistic showing how well Howard is playing, not the D? What this tells me is that the D are letting a ton of shots on goal, but Howard/Backups are shutting the door. Edited January 4, 2015 by kliq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Dynasty 267 Report post Posted January 4, 2015 Glendening is 4th in the league in short-handed time on ice. That is all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted January 4, 2015 +7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the Wings are 5th in the league in GA per game, but they let the most shots in per game during 5 on 5 play, wouldn't this be a statistic showing how well Howard is playing, not the D? What this tells me is that the D are letting a ton of shots on goal, but Howard/Backups are shutting the door. Do the Wings actually allow the most shots per game per 5 on 5 play in the league? I could only find total shots against per game at NHL.com, which has the Wings at 27.3 shots against/game; good for 3rd best in the league. Considering we've also been pretty solid on the PK, I have a hard time believing the Wings are one of the worst teams league-wide for 5 on 5 shots allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted January 4, 2015 Do the Wings actually allow the most shots per game per 5 on 5 play in the league? I could only find total shots against per game at NHL.com, which has the Wings at 27.3 shots against/game; good for 3rd best in the league. Considering we've also been pretty solid on the PK, I have a hard time believing the Wings are one of the worst teams league-wide for 5 on 5 shots allowed. Yeah, I'd be interested to see that stat as well. I've never heard that. However, we do get the most powerplays in the league (or in the top two or three), and we're good on the pk, so I could see how it could be (theoretically) possible that we're not great 5 on 5 but end up with very few shots...as opposing teams aren't getting much on the pk, and aren't getting shots at all while we're on all those powerplays. But again, I'd really like to see the stats to back this up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted January 4, 2015 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the Wings are 5th in the league in GA per game, but they let the most shots in per game during 5 on 5 play, wouldn't this be a statistic showing how well Howard is playing, not the D? What this tells me is that the D are letting a ton of shots on goal, but Howard/Backups are shutting the door. It's a poorly worded statement in the article. The Wings have a "league leading" 47.23 shot attempts per 60 minutes, meaning they allow the fewest shot attempts per 60 minutes in the league, not the most. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=201415&sit=5v5&sort=CA60&sortdir=ASC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted January 4, 2015 We have this amazing stifling defense that we all hate so much! Ingrates!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
