Time for Teemu?

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't see why one would think this guy would get traded... I'd say there is about a 0.01% chance he gets traded. Why would Holland trade away the player with two of the main attributes he's been looking for in a player in the past decade... Right-handed / Sniper. The kid is here to stay, he will be fine, he will work out the kinks in his game down in Grand Rapids, and he will come back hungrier, stronger, and a much better all around player...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Because he has value

[Buppy 1,720]

Because he has value

So do a lot of others guys, some with much more, and most with a far more redundant skill set.

I wouldn't be completely shocked if he were to get traded, since I think he's shown enough to be in demand, but I doubt we'll be dangling him out there as some seem to think we will or should.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Exactly Buppy. I agree, although I would be completely shocked if this kid gets traded. He has something absolutely no other player in our entire organization has, something we've been looking for for years... No chance he gets traded, unless of course we are getting another right handed shooting sniper in return... Not gonna happen.

[kipwinger 8,493]

I suppose the reason I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded is because of where he fits onto this team moving forward. Lets say in 3-5 years, who are the Wings potential top six wingers? Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, Abby, Pulkkinen, and Jurco. Now, he's not really competing with the big bodied guys (Mantha, Abby, Jurco) and Nyquist and Tatar are already proven high scoring NHL players. So as of now, he's the shooting winger on the third line (and obviously a power play specialist) if he continues to develop and have success.

I'd never be surprised if a third liner is traded. Particularly if it's for something like a top four defenseman.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised. Sure he's a shooter, and sure he's right handed. And those things are huge buzz words for the organization. But the shooter thing matters a little less when you've got established goal scorers in Nyquist and Tatar, and an expected goal scorer in Mantha. And the right handedness is more of a need on the back end than the front end. Obviously, you'd like to have both, but if losing a righty up front gains you a righty top four defender, I can see Holland being ok with the trade off.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Again, we have other assets that could be used in a trade before Pulkkinen. He is far and away the purest goal scorer in the organization and he is right handed to boot. In my opinion, it would be very short sighted to trade him at this point. Sure, it is possible that he tops out as a third line winger / power-play specialist, but it also isn't out of the realm of possibility that he surpasses a guy like Tatar or even Nyquist on the depth chart in a few years. The kid has been a beast in every league he has played, no reason to think he can't be in the NHL as well...

[Echolalia 2,961]

Given how saturated the Wings are on forward, and the alleged price of a top four defensman these days, frankly I'd be surprised if the Wings traded anybody.

[kipwinger 8,493]

Again, we have other assets that could be used in a trade before Pulkkinen. He is far and away the purest goal scorer in the organization and he is right handed to boot. In my opinion, it would be very short sighted to trade him at this point. Sure, it is possible that he tops out as a third line winger / power-play specialist, but it also isn't out of the realm of possibility that he surpasses a guy like Tatar or even Nyquist on the depth chart in a few years. The kid has been a beast in every league he has played, no reason to think he can't be in the NHL as well...

Sure, we have lots of other assets that could be traded. But not too many that "could" be traded, that also have value to other teams. I think we're having a miscommunication of some sort. I say, "I won't be surprised if he's traded", and you respond with "he shouldn't be traded, he's going to be good". I agree with you. He'll probably be pretty good. And it's precisely that reason, and the emergence of Nyquist and Tatar as bona fide stars, which makes me think it's a possibility.

In some ways I think I'm starting to understand the way you post, and the way you look at this team. Which might make it easier for us to have productive discussions going forward. You like the Red Wings, and you like certain players, and so your mind will always try to figure out ways to utilize the players you like to help the team you like. But the key point is that the player you like and the team you like be together. I can dig it.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Kip pretty much hit on all the points I would make here. The group of forwards will be a bit cluttered in the next few seasons, Pulkkinen has some value in the marketplace, etc. It's not about wanting to move the guy, it's about his perceived value and availability vs. other assets.

While it may not be likely, if Holland's going after a piece he really wants, does he move someone like Mantha, or does he move Pulkkinen if the other team is willing to "come down" on their return?

There's a place in between the players this team should not be willing to move, and the ones they should be willing move.

Teams are going to have high interest in Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha and Larkin. I'd imagine there's very little interest in Kindl, Tvrdon, Frk and Nastasiuk. Someone like Pulkkinen lies in between those two groups of guys. Again, it's not about liking or not liking a player. I like Pulkkinen. This is about pure, objective trade value vs. other assets this team has in stock.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Some people are just over hyping the wings prospects it happens with every fanbase so nothing special but the fact is:

If Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar and Dekeyser are off limits the next on line have to be in play for a top 4 defender simple as that.

And given the fact that UFAs don't want to come here anymore the option to add a top 4 defender comes down to trading and guys like Kindle, Athansu, Sproul, Marchenko won't land one that's for sure.

[Buppy 1,720]

Making Mantha or Larkin off-limits is no different. Nyquist and Tatar would have much more value, possibly enough to justify the risk of not being able to replace their production. Jurco's value is probably about the same as Pulkkinen's or a bit higher. Sheahan is probably close to Nyquist/Tatar. Helm would certainly have some decent value, probably Abby as well at the moment. Weiss might even draw some interest.

Pulkkinen has a rather unique skillset in our system. One that could potentially make us a more well-rounded and dangerous team. While I don't think anyone should ever be completely off-limits, I think he is someone we should make an effort to hang on to.

Sure, if were getting a good, proven young player that can help now and in the future, and the other team demands either Mantha or Pulkkinen, maybe you do it. But he's not our only, or in my opinion, best, trade asset.

[kipwinger 8,493]

Making Mantha or Larkin off-limits is no different. Nyquist and Tatar would have much more value, possibly enough to justify the risk of not being able to replace their production. Jurco's value is probably about the same as Pulkkinen's or a bit higher. Sheahan is probably close to Nyquist/Tatar. Helm would certainly have some decent value, probably Abby as well at the moment. Weiss might even draw some interest.

Pulkkinen has a rather unique skillset in our system. One that could potentially make us a more well-rounded and dangerous team. While I don't think anyone should ever be completely off-limits, I think he is someone we should make an effort to hang on to.

Sure, if were getting a good, proven young player that can help now and in the future, and the other team demands either Mantha or Pulkkinen, maybe you do it. But he's not our only, or in my opinion, best, trade asset.

That list shrinks pretty quickly when you consider Holland isn't likely to trade significant roster players if he's trying to make a Cup run (Nyquist, Tatar), role players that Babs really likes (Helm, Abby), no-trade clauses (Weiss), or centers (there's a reason we just drafted 5 of them).

Probably your tradeable assets are limited to throwaway guys, defensive prospects, and Jurco/Mantha/Pulkkinen. Of those three, Pulkkinen isn't the only one with a unique skill set. Mantha is perhaps MORE unique given his size, speed, and scoring ability. And as I've said already, given that we've already got Nyquist and Tatar (and no big bodied guys who can score) in Detroit, I don't think it's that unrealistic to think Holland might be ok with moving Pulkkinen.

I don't think anybody is saying he should actively be shopped. Or at least I'm not. But given that he's got value, other guys are ahead of him in the depth chart, and other guys are more proven, I don't think he's completely off the table.

Or Holland could trade nobody. Or he could trade Jurco, one of the defensive prospects, or Smith. Pulkkinen isn't the only tradeable asset. But it's probably not as big a list as you've made it out to be.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Mantha, Larkin, Mrazek, Sproul and Ouellet are the prospects who have decent value. Pulkinnen, Athanasiou, and Marchenko have limited value. The rest have little value. If you want a good player, you need to give to get. If you won't move one of them you're not getting a good player.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I really wish I could "quote"... Still have no idea why I can't...

Kip, you say "I won't be surprised if he's traded", and yes I did respond by saying, "he shouldn't be traded, he's going to be good", but I also say "there's no way he get's traded". It's not just about what I want or think should happen with this team, it's about what I truly believe Mr. Ken Holland will do.

You're absolutely right in that I like this team, and I like a lot of certain players. I guess a lot of that has to do with me watching a lot of them right from when they were drafted, in junior, making their way up to the minors, before eventually cracking the Red Wings lineup... you do tend to get attached to certain players, and I honestly think a similar thing happens with Holland... However, like almost any player, I'm not opposed to trading Pulkkinen at the right price and for the right return, I just don't see that happening...

There are not many guys in the entire league that can shoot the puck like Pulkkinen. I put him in the same category as guys like Ovechkin and Stamkos when it comes to his pure sniping ability. There are things he needs to work on for sure, like timing and what not, but his shot alone, not many compare. Bottom line, I just honestly, truly would be shocked if this guy is in any package deal at this years deadline, not because I like him, but because I think Holland and Babcock like him, and see the potential in him...

Jesusberg, if a trade is on the table and part of the package has to include one of Mantha, Larkin or Pulkkinen, I honestly think he says, thanks but no thanks. And I'd be happy with that assuming the player on the other end wasn't a superstar talent... I think it is more likely that Jurco gets offered in a trade before Pulkkinen, which I would also hate, because he's another guy that I'm really high on. I guess bottom line is, like Kip alluded to, I like our team, and even more so, I like our future team. Hold on to the kids and keep building. We will be a perennial contender and eventually win the Cup with the kids we currently have in the system, I have no doubt.

I completely agree with Buppy.

[Buppy 1,720]

Mantha, Larkin, Mrazek, Sproul and Ouellet are the prospects who have decent value. Pulkinnen, Athanasiou, and Marchenko have limited value. The rest have little value. If you want a good player, you need to give to get. If you won't move one of them you're not getting a good player.

Mantha is probably in a class by himself for now, though the longer he goes on struggling in GR the more that will change. Larkin earned some attention in the WJC, but that will likely fade somewhat unless he really dominates at UofM. I'd put Pulkkinen on the same level, higher if he sticks with the Wings a bit longer and scores a few more points. Jurco should probably still be considered a prospect as well.

There's not a big market for goalies, so Mrazek doesn't really belong there. He's probably down with AA, Marchenko, and I would add Bertuzzi and Nastasiuk in that same group. Both are putting up decent numbers in juniors this year.

If we're talking a deadline deal, I'd agree the Pulks is one of few decent trade options. Off-season though, I think Tatar and Nyquist could be in play, depending on how the rest of the season and playoffs go.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Unless a guy like Jamie Benn is coming back Tatar and Nyquist aren't going anywhere. Pulkinnen still needs to prove he can score in the NHL without being a liability in other areas, he's highly over rated here.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Dickie, I agree that Pulkkinen still needs to prove that he can score in the NHL, but he also needs that opportunity to prove that. He will prove that when given the opportunity. I don't think he is being over rated here at all. He is a very good prospect.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

When people are suggesting that Tatar and Nyquist are expendable because they have Pulkinnen, he's being over rated.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

When people are suggesting that Tatar and Nyquist are expendable because they have Pulkinnen, he's being over rated.

Agreed

[Buppy 1,720]

When people are suggesting that Tatar and Nyquist are expendable because they have Pulkinnen, he's being over rated.

That isn't at all what I was suggesting. I suggest they are expendable because we have both Tatar AND Nyquist, as well as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Franzen, Sheahan, Jurco, Abdelkader, and Helm in addition to a high end prospect like Pulkkinen.

And sorry if I was unclear; I didn't mean they should be traded for a bag of air and an empty roster spot for Pulks. Obviously I would expect something of value in return. (Seems so obvious that I didn't think I would actually need to specify that.) In fact, I would expect much more in return than we could get for Pulks (or almost anyone else), which is another reason I think one of them could be a good trade asset.

Being unproven is not proof that he won't be able to produce. Making any kind of move requires some faith. Whether it be faith that a kid can produce if given the opportunity, or faith that a new guy will work with our team, or faith that someone will continue to produce.

You clearly have no faith in Pulkkinen, but that doesn't mean you're right or that those who do have enough faith in him to not want to trade him are over-rating him.

[ash11 78]

Does everybody remember the first 9 games of this season when everyone here said they would trade tatar for a top 4 d man? Well now, would you? No. I think temmu is expendable however i think he needs a chance to prove what hes capable of preforming, he needs patients, he could easily have 3 goals his last 5 games in the nhl. 1 hit the post and the tats took out of the air, all im saying is give the kid a chance before u say u want him traded or hes over valued.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I still would for the right offer nothing against Tatar, love his game but: the job of a GM is to make a team better in the long run that's why most GMs are taking care of their players but are never too attached to them, cause they might have to trade them the next day.

Pulkinnen has a great shot yes. The problem is the guy is small and weak - obviously he will bulk up - but on a team that already is lacking heavily in size and grit he will get pushed around too easily making it difficult to unload his shot at the right time. Obviously the guy has potential but people have to understand one simple thing: other GMs aren't going to offer a top 4 defender for so- so prospects or bad contracts. I've mentioned it before this team has trouble getting top UFAs to sign here and aren't bad enough to get top 5 picks so how do you add another top 4 defender? Hoping to get such a steal as Dekeyser again ? Might work might not at some point a major trade has to happen.

And if other GMs are asking for Pulkinnen (he doesn't have that much value around the league mind you), Jurco, Marchenko in exchange for a top 4 guy or a big bodied gritty winger you have to jump at th at opportunity if you are Ken Holland. That doesn't mean I'd be dying to trade Pulkinnen but of the available guys - given that Mantha is almost off limits safe for overpayment - I would do it. The Wings aren't in a position to dictate how the trade goes anymore other GMs know this team is desperate to add another defender so the price only goes up that's the nature of the beast.

[kliq 3,755]

I still would for the right offer nothing against Tatar, love his game but: the job of a GM is to make a team better in the long run that's why most GMs are taking care of their players but are never too attached to them, cause they might have to trade them the next day.

Pulkinnen has a great shot yes. The problem is the guy is small and weak - obviously he will bulk up - but on a team that already is lacking heavily in size and grit he will get pushed around too easily making it difficult to unload his shot at the right time. Obviously the guy has potential but people have to understand one simple thing: other GMs aren't going to offer a top 4 defender for so- so prospects or bad contracts. I've mentioned it before this team has trouble getting top UFAs to sign here and aren't bad enough to get top 5 picks so how do you add another top 4 defender? Hoping to get such a steal as Dekeyser again ? Might work might not at some point a major trade has to happen.

And if other GMs are asking for Pulkinnen (he doesn't have that much value around the league mind you), Jurco, Marchenko in exchange for a top 4 guy or a big bodied gritty winger you have to jump at th at opportunity if you are Ken Holland. That doesn't mean I'd be dying to trade Pulkinnen but of the available guys - given that Mantha is almost off limits safe for overpayment - I would do it. The Wings aren't in a position to dictate how the trade goes anymore other GMs know this team is desperate to add another defender so the price only goes up that's the nature of the beast.

Just because you say something over and over and over and over and over again, does not make it true. From my count, we have signed Dekeyser, Alfredsson and Weiss over the last 3 years. We cant pick and choose who we want anymore, I'll give you that, but your statement is just wrong.

You cant even make the argument that Alfie and Weiss weren't top UFA's, because they were. The questions here is not, "do the UFA's that come here play like top guys", the questions is, "can we attract top guys".

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Just because you say something over and over and over and over and over again, does not make it true. From my count, we have signed Dekeyser, Alfredsson and Weiss over the last 3 years. We cant pick and choose who we want anymore, I'll give you that, but your statement is just wrong.

You cant even make the argument that Alfie and Weiss weren't top UFA's, because they were. The questions here is not, "do the UFA's that come here play like top guys", the questions is, "can we attract top guys".

Good god christ...top UFAs in their ******* prime better ?

The last big piece has been Marian Hossa because he was willing to make it work since then if your standard are Alfredsson (way past his prime) and Weiss good for you..I thought Wings standards are/were higher. It's nothing against either one of them but compared to Marian Hossa they are a downgrade.

Loading up on prospects is nice and all but same must be used as assets given how bad the UFA market has become

[krsmith17 7,191]

frank, anyone would trade Tatar in the right deal. I don't think anyone thinks he's absolutely off limits, and the same goes for any player in our organization aside from our three captains, in my opinion. The point is that we would need to be getting a better return, because the whole point is, making your team better... and I just don't see us getting fair value for any of our young guys. They simply have not done enough for long enough in this league to make other GM's want to give up the pieces we would want in return...

I don't understand the logic that "top UFA's in their prime will not sign here"... That's absurd. Why the hell would anyone think that? For the past few years? Sure, but the only reason we've had trouble attracting UFA's is because, we have been struggling to make the playoffs for the past 2 years and the 2 years prior to that we clearly were not the same power-house team we were up until the '08 Stanley Cup team and the '09 Cup run... We are climbing our way back to the top and back into relevancy to these top free agents. We've made the playoffs every year since our last Stanley Cup final appearance in '09 but have struggled to make any noise in the post season. Obviously we're not going to attract much interest from top players barely squeaking into the playoffs and getting bounced in the first or second round. BUT, do you honestly believe that if we finish in the top 2-3 in our division, or conference, or league (which is all very possible), and we're able to get through 2-3 rounds in the playoffs (which is also a good possibilty) that we won't be able to attract top free agents this summer??... Once these players see that we are back to being a legit contender every year, and we're serious about winning NOW, we will land these top guys.

We do not need to trade at this point. We are a strong team, and we're only going to get stronger with the development of the kids. Add into that a key offseason acquisition and we'll be back to being a Cup favorite within a year from now. STAY THE COURSE KENNY!