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Andy Pred 48

Time for Teemu?

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Good god christ...top UFAs in their ******* prime better ?

The last big piece has been Marian Hossa because he was willing to make it work since then if your standard are Alfredsson (way past his prime) and Weiss good for you..I thought Wings standards are/were higher. It's nothing against either one of them but compared to Marian Hossa they are a downgrade.

Loading up on prospects is nice and all but same must be used as assets given how bad the UFA market has become

Funny that Hossa signed here at 30. Guess how old Weiss was when he signed? Here's a hint, he's 31 now. So if Hossa was in his prime, so is Weiss.

The fact is, with the league being so equal now, players can play where they want, closer to where they grew up and have family, or closer to where they have other relationships. We had trouble landing a couple overrated Dmen, (Niskanen has a whopping 15 points) and suddenly we can't ever get a good free agent again.

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Putting Tatar in a package for an elite defender is the only thing that would make sense, IMO. He's on pace for about 35ish goals... how many guys in the league score 35 goals, anymore? Last year, eight guys put that number up - this year ten guys are on pace to hit that mark. Whatever you're getting back in terms of a forward is probably not worth whatever else you're including in the package.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Good god christ...top UFAs in their ******* prime better ?

The last big piece has been Marian Hossa because he was willing to make it work since then if your standard are Alfredsson (way past his prime) and Weiss good for you..I thought Wings standards are/were higher. It's nothing against either one of them but compared to Marian Hossa they are a downgrade.

Loading up on prospects is nice and all but same must be used as assets given how bad the UFA market has become

There are so many holes in your argument, its not even funny.

Weiss was is his prime when we signed him and was considered a top UFA that year, and as someone else pointed out, he was younger then what Hossa was when we signed Hossa.

You are criticizing Holland for not signing "Hossa" level players, saying that you thought our standards are higher, and how its all a downgrade. Who are these UFA's you are talking about? Hossa level UFA's are not hitting UFA any more. Last year the top 2 guys were Matt Niskanen and Paul Stasny. The only player who was a "game-changer" in the past few years was Suter, and he did want to come here, we were just #2 on his list not #1 due to family reason (wife's family lives near Minny), not a knock on the organization at all. Your last line, you even admit the UFA market is bad.

Saying to just trade for a game-changer is easy, but when GM's are asking for Nyquist & Mantha, or Tatar & Larkin (just examples) etc. I would rather Holland wait and not make a stupid move. Before you jump to the old Boychuk argument, Boston never would have made that trade with us as we are a division rival who has the ability to take a playoff spot from them.

Its not 2001 anymore, you cant just obtain Hull Robitaille, and Hasek anymore.

If you love big moves (UFA signings & trades), plus I know you love physical play, you should become a Flyers fan. It appears everything that defines this organization you hate (being patient, developing talent, not making giant UFA signings, not making blockbuster trades, not playing a super phyisical style, not having a fighter etc.)

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Good god christ...top UFAs in their ******* prime better ?

The last big piece has been Marian Hossa because he was willing to make it work since then if your standard are Alfredsson (way past his prime) and Weiss good for you..I thought Wings standards are/were higher. It's nothing against either one of them but compared to Marian Hossa they are a downgrade.

Loading up on prospects is nice and all but same must be used as assets given how bad the UFA market has become

Yea that Alfredsson guy was really awful. He only had 50 points in 68 games last year, and was our leading scorer.

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Good god christ...top UFAs in their ******* prime better ?

The last big piece has been Marian Hossa because he was willing to make it work since then if your standard are Alfredsson (way past his prime) and Weiss good for you..I thought Wings standards are/were higher. It's nothing against either one of them but compared to Marian Hossa they are a downgrade.

Loading up on prospects is nice and all but same must be used as assets given how bad the UFA market has become

There are so many holes in your argument, its not even funny.

Weiss was is his prime when we signed him and was considered a top UFA that year, and as someone else pointed out, he was younger then what Hossa was when we signed Hossa.

You are criticizing Holland for not signing "Hossa" level players, saying that you thought our standards are higher, and how its all a downgrade. Who are these UFA's you are talking about? Hossa level UFA's are not hitting UFA any more. Last year the top 2 guys were Matt Niskanen and Paul Stasny. The only player who was a "game-changer" in the past few years was Suter, and he did want to come here, we were just #2 on his list not #1 due to family reason (wife's family lives near Minny), not a knock on the organization at all. Your last line, you even admit the UFA market is bad.

Saying to just trade for a game-changer is easy, but when GM's are asking for Nyquist & Mantha, or Tatar & Larkin (just examples) etc. I would rather Holland wait and not make a stupid move. Before you jump to the old Boychuk argument, Boston never would have made that trade with us as we are a division rival who has the ability to take a playoff spot from them.

Its not 2001 anymore, you cant just obtain Hull Robitaille, and Hasek anymore.

If you love big moves (UFA signings & trades), plus I know you love physical play, you should become a Flyers fan. It appears everything that defines this organization you hate (being patient, developing talent, not making giant UFA signings, not making blockbuster trades, not playing a super phyisical style, not having a fighter etc.)

who considered him a top ufa ?

Actually Hossa was 29 when he signed with us https://www.toledoblade.com/Pro/2008/07/03/Red-Wings-sign-Hossa-for-1-year.html

Like I've said for the right return nobody should be off limits and that price will obviously ridiculously high. But do you really expect to get back a player that can help us on the backend for years by offering so so prospects ? That's not gonna happen.

Pietrangelo was RFA and could have been offer sheeted just as an example. Yeah Suter signed elsewhere couldn't do anything about that but the wings could flex their financial muscle when it comes to offer sheeting other top players.

So what's your solution then keep building and building till Pasha and Z can't carry the team anymore ? Even if that's your plan there isn't enough on this team for every prospect so trades need to happen might as well cash in when the value us highish

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who considered him a top ufa ? Actually Hossa was 29 when he signed with us https://www.toledoblade.com/Pro/2008/07/03/Red-Wings-sign-Hossa-for-1-year.html Like I've said for the right return nobody should be off limits and that price will obviously ridiculously high. But do you really expect to get back a player that can help us on the backend for years by offering so so prospects ? That's not gonna happen. Pietrangelo was RFA and could have been offer sheeted just as an example. Yeah Suter signed elsewhere couldn't do anything about that but the wings could flex their financial muscle when it comes to offer sheeting other top players. So what's your solution then keep building and building till Pasha and Z can't carry the team anymore ? Even if that's your plan there isn't enough on this team for every prospect so trades need to happen might as well cash in when the value us highish

There is no financial muscle - that's the whole point of the salary cap. And I think you know how likely it is to land someone on an offer sheet.

Solution is to build from the draft, which we've done. Try to pick up college free agents (Dekeyeser, Glendening) AND take a swing in Free agency. Alfie and Weiss were top free agents. we haven't done as badly in free agency as some suggest. If we finish where we're at in the standings now, we'll be pretty attractive as a destination.

Edit: Also, this year looks like a better crop of free agents: Green, Erhoff, and Franson, Boychuck, Marc Staal, Petry, Jackman, Martin are set to be UFAs this year. Some will get signed before then, but who knows...

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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frank, first you say "do you really expect to get back a player that can help us on the backend for years by offering so so prospects", then you go on to say "there isn't enough on this team for every prospect, so trades need to happen, might as well cash in when the value is highish"... Who exactly are you proposing we trade that has a "highish value" to other teams?

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frank, first you say "do you really expect to get back a player that can help us on the backend for years by offering so so prospects", then you go on to say "there isn't enough on this team for every prospect, so trades need to happen, might as well cash in when the value is highish"... Who exactly are you proposing we trade that has a "highish value" to other teams?

Package Pulkkinen + Jurco + for a top 4 defender note top 4 defender not a first pairing type of guy because nobody seems to be trading them.

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Seriously Holland sucks so badly. Why isn't he trading our mediocre crap for franchise players!!

We are victims of a system designed to prevent dynasties. Holland may not be the best GM but the talented teams are meant to be recycled and the Wings have been fighting that fairly well. I don't know that we'd be better off now if we had tanked after our last cup run or not, but that's just as risky a gamble as trying to rebuild on the fly.

My only concern is that none of our D prospects will become franchise players.

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who considered him a top ufa ? Actually Hossa was 29 when he signed with us https://www.toledoblade.com/Pro/2008/07/03/Red-Wings-sign-Hossa-for-1-year.html Like I've said for the right return nobody should be off limits and that price will obviously ridiculously high. But do you really expect to get back a player that can help us on the backend for years by offering so so prospects ? That's not gonna happen. Pietrangelo was RFA and could have been offer sheeted just as an example. Yeah Suter signed elsewhere couldn't do anything about that but the wings could flex their financial muscle when it comes to offer sheeting other top players. So what's your solution then keep building and building till Pasha and Z can't carry the team anymore ? Even if that's your plan there isn't enough on this team for every prospect so trades need to happen might as well cash in when the value us highish

Every analyst considered Weiss a top UFA. This is what the UFA has turned into. Guys like Seguin, Stamkos, Weber etc. are not hitting UFA anymore.

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/free-agents/2013-top-30-nhl-free-agents/

Above is a link ranking the top UFA of 2013, Weiss is ranked #4 player (non goalie). The 3 above him, Lecavalier, Filppula, and Clarkson. I would say he is easily #2 on that list now despite his struggles. Again, this is what UFA has become, hence my issue with throwing stupid amounts of money in a cap system at average-pretty good players.

You are right, Hossa was 29 when he signed, Weiss was 30. I should have double checked myself rather than take someone else’s word for it. But the point of that, was that Weiss was also in his prime just like Hossa, so that point still stands.

Holland can throw out offer-sheets all he wants, team will just match, we all know this. All this does is hurt a GM's relationship with other GM's. We already have a hard enough time trading because we are the Wings, this is the last thing I want to do. I can’t even remember the last offer sheet that went through.

My solution: Keep producing talent and let these kids take over for D & Z. We have so many good young players, I’m not going to dismiss them because "I don’t want to get my hopes up so I won’t be disappointed". We are currently sitting just a few points out of first seed in the conference (and that's with D missing 11 games). If it was just D & Z that were good on our team, this would not be the case.

This is getting off topic anyways, my point was that the Wings don’t struggle with landing UFA. We have landed 3 pretty big ones (respective to who is available) over the past few years. The difference, is the best of the best don’t hit UFA, and the players that do hit UFA typically get overpaid, kudos to Holland for not giving away stupid contracts. (ie. Clarkson, Orpik, Pouliot etc.). I would love to get Keith Shattenkirk, but this will never happen. That would be like a Ducks fan in 2000 saying "our GM should go out and get Lidstrom" Not going to happen. (not saying Shattenkirk is as good as Lidstrom, but I think my point is made).

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Kliq some good points for sure man in retrospective I can't believe how weak that UFA class Iginla is by far the best of that list.

The thing with Shattenkirk is that the blues have re- sign Tarasenko and Schwarz and are tied to the cap so that might be a nice opportunity.

Anyway I think Pulkinen could be a nice piece to sweeten some deals.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Kliq some good points for sure man in retrospective I can't believe how weak that UFA class Iginla is by far the best of that list. The thing with Shattenkirk is that the blues have re- sign Tarasenko and Schwarz and are tied to the cap so that might be a nice opportunity. Anyway I think Pulkinen could be a nice piece to sweeten some deals.

Thanks.......I would be ecstatic if we could somehow get Shattenkirk, but I just don't see the Blues giving him up.

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Better video and all the goals here.

http://www.sendtonews.com/#!highlight/story/Ou6lbhwgLj

Now if he can translate that scoring touch to the Bigs.

On a side note we all the prospect chatter is about Pulls Manta and Larkin. Hard not to talk about Pulls and Larkin with the season they are having. But how about Andy Miele. He is second to pulls with 13 goals and 25 assists and 38 points. I know a lot of the assists are pulling the ball on the tee for Pulls. Still impressive.

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Aside from the obvious of finding the time and space to get his shot off, I'd like to see Pulks more involved in supporting the puck carrier. He did a lot of standing around waiting for the puck to come to him during his last call up, and that's fine and dandy if our team is in position to find him. It's not so fine when Sheahan is pinned to the wall in the corner with his back to the ice and Weiss is boxed out. I understand that this kid is a goal scorer and in order to do that sometimes he needs to get lost in the play, but more offense will be generated if he's more proactive in the cycle, then when possession is well established, he sneaks off to the weakside to find his shooting lane.

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