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daniel1

Petry next Oiler to be shopped - FTLOG Kenny, get it done!

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You honestly don't think that a package of Kindl, Ouellet, Nastasiuk and a mid to high draft pick could land us a decent defenseman? I do. And that's the route I'd prefer to go rather than giving up Smith. And honestly, Zidlicky would be a good option for us at the deadline and he wouldn't cost much at all, maybe a draft pick or two or a mid level prospect and a pick...

Yes, I definitely do see Babcock using Smith in a top 4 role in the future. He doesn't always trust his game in certain situations right now, but with growth, he will earn the coaches trust. And no, I don't see anything practical in giving up on Smith at this stage of his career / where the Wings are as a team right now. The only way I trade a player like Smith is if it's for a significant upgrade, and without giving up other assets such as a Mantha or Larkin, I don't see that happening. If you're trading Smith now, you're trading low, and his stock is going to continue to go up.

Just do me a favor and put Smith in a trade scenario that you would make... It's a move that must make the team better. No lateral moves, without giving up the farm, and without raping another team, because we all know that isn't going to happen. At the deadline buyers almost always overpay. I'm quite okay with standing pat and continuing the development of our team / the kids.

Obviously, we differ on our opinion of what Smith is worth, but I would do something around Mike Green for Smith, Frk/Tvrdon/Nastasiuk/Bertuzzi/Jensen + 2016 Conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd if he signs here. It may be viewed as over payment by some, but I think Green is legitimate. This is the guy I'd want most, which is pretty much moot, since Washington's making a run. Don't think Green is moved before the trade deadline.

Other players I'd explore trying to acquire are Wisniewski, Wideman or maybe even Byfuglien/Bogosian. The packages would vary (Don't think I include Smith in the Wideman one), but the idea is to grab a bonafide Top 4 guy.

I don't think that package would get anyone better than what the Wings have now. Nastasiuk, or a similar prospect, simply doesn't have much value, neither does Kindl. Ouellet has some, but not as much as a lot of fans think, and the pick depends on which round. A lot of sub-par to decent pieces generally doesn't get you a higher end piece.

With the number of players the Wings have on the roster signed longer term or they plan on keeping, plus the 4 prospects who look like they have a good chance of being NHL players, their best bet is to trade Smith or Dekeyser, plus a D prospect, and a draft pick if they trade for a top 4 D who's going to be around for awhile.

This is pretty much my mentality. I would hang onto DeKeyser over Smith, though. IMO, we have a lot of pieces of the blueline are good at quite a few things, but not great. I'd be fine with having a bit of a gap between our Top 4 guys and the ones beneath them if it meant getting a legitimate offensive threat on the back end. It's not a knock on Smith - it's just that the Wings seem to be in a good position to acquire someone. Signing someone like Green or Franson this off-season sounds great, because we're not giving up any assets, but it further crowds the current group of defenders.

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I would consider trading Smith in a package for Green, if and only if we knew he would resign. There is no way I give up Smith plus the assets it would take to get Green here for just a few short months. Especially considering I don't think we're that close to being a "favorite" to win the Cup this year. I do believe we're a contender but I don't think Green puts us over the top into the "favorites" conversation... For the same reason, I wouldn't trade away any major assets for the number one defenseman I'd like to have that will be available, Cody Franson. Not worth it if they're going to walk in the summer, and they both probably would want to test the open market, considering they will be on 20+ teams wishlist. I'd also like to have Wisniewski, and to a lesser extent, Bogosian, Wideman or Byfuglien...

Like I've said before, Smith is on my untouchable list, not because there isn't a player in the league that I would trade him for, because there obviously are many, but because there is no player that Holland is likely to get in a trade that I would give up Smith for... Anyway, Smith isn't going anywhere. I'm more confident in Smith being a career Red Wing than getting traded before this years deadline. Simply not going to happen...

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I would consider trading Smith in a package for Green, if and only if we knew he would resign. There is no way I give up Smith plus the assets it would take to get Green here for just a few short months. Especially considering I don't think we're that close to being a "favorite" to win the Cup this year. I do believe we're a contender but I don't think Green puts us over the top into the "favorites" conversation... For the same reason, I wouldn't trade away any major assets for the number one defenseman I'd like to have that will be available, Cody Franson. Not worth it if they're going to walk in the summer, and they both probably would want to test the open market, considering they will be on 20+ teams wishlist. I'd also like to have Wisniewski, and to a lesser extent, Bogosian, Wideman or Byfuglien...

I completely understand this logic. Even though they're not the exact same situation, it's unfortunate that we gave up Jarnkrok for a rental.

I think this situation is a bit different, though. I can't imagine Holland not doing every thing in his power to retain Green if we managed to trade for him. Babcock is high on Green, and the team sorely lacks someone like him on the back-end. I believe that Holland would be able to sign him, and at a fair cap hit to boot. There are definitely some risks involved - is Green looking to cash in, what kind of term does he want? I think it would be worth the risk, personally.

Also, I wouldn't mind landing Franson in the off-season. He'll more than likely be cheaper than Green, and he doesn't have the injury concerns. As always, it's just going to be interesting to see how Holland would shuffle players around to make room for a UFA.

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Green said he wants to stay in Washington anyway

Given his time spent there, I don't think he's going to say he wants to leave. Washington is going to be hard pressed to keep a guy who's 5th in ice time, and probably getting close to what he's being paid now.

They've got some cap relief with guys like Ward and Erskine (should they part ways) coming off the books, but they've also got to give raises to Holtby, Johansson, Kuznetsov and possibly Beagle and Fehr (should they decide to keep them around). Regardless of whether or not Detroit has a chance to get him, I can't see him staying in Washington.

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I like the Smith for Petry idea... someone send a text to Kenny.

I wouldn't be in favour of throwing in picks or prospects though. Edmonton knows Petry is gone at the end of this season and Smith is still an RFA at the end of this season. Based on his play/ice time I can't see him seeking a significant raise from his reasonable 1.26m cap hit. If he turns into the next Niedermayer then so be it, but I really can't see it as I think the "potential" tag with him has worn off somewhat and the Smith we see now won't be that different from the Smith we'll see 5-7 years down the road. It's one of the great mysteries of the world as to why he thinks he can pass the puck THROUGH opposing players when he's trying to break out of his own end. He's done this consistently ever since he played his first game with the Wings and still hasn't learned his lesson despite many, many, many turnovers. If he hasn't corrected this by now then he likely never will. That's just his style; go for the high risk, low percentage pass up the middle, between the opposing player's body/legs/stick/jockstrap.

Although if the Oilers would take both Smith AND Kindl off our hands for Petry I would personally buy their GM a week's supply of curly fries!

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Jesusberg, no you're right, they're not the same situation. In one case, we gave up a pretty solid prospect at a position that we were really deep at, and he had no chance at cracking the lineup any time soon, and in the other, we'd be giving up a solid young defenseman, who is starting to round out his game and come into his own. Why would you give up on that for potentially just a few months of service from another player? Especially after seeing what happened in the Legwand situation... Also, Holland can do whatever he wants to try to get Green to stay in Detroit past this season, but chances are Green would test the open market, and if there is a better offer elsewhere, which there likely would be, nothing's stopping him from signing anywhere else... What makes you think Babcock is high on Green? I would think Green is the polar opposite of a player Babcock would be high on. As a matter of fact, the one reason I'm not sure if Green would be a great trade for us, aside from the cost, is that I think he would end up in Babcock's doghouse within weeks...

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Jesusberg, no you're right, they're not the same situation. In one case, we gave up a pretty solid prospect at a position that we were really deep at, and he had no chance at cracking the lineup any time soon, and in the other, we'd be giving up a solid young defenseman, who is starting to round out his game and come into his own. Why would you give up on that for potentially just a few months of service from another player? Especially after seeing what happened in the Legwand situation... Also, Holland can do whatever he wants to try to get Green to stay in Detroit past this season, but chances are Green would test the open market, and if there is a better offer elsewhere, which there likely would be, nothing's stopping him from signing anywhere else... What makes you think Babcock is high on Green? I would think Green is the polar opposite of a player Babcock would be high on. As a matter of fact, the one reason I'm not sure if Green would be a great trade for us, aside from the cost, is that I think he would end up in Babcock's doghouse within weeks...

I was conceding that it sucked giving up Jarnkrok for a rental. While we differ on how much value Smith has, we can agree that moving an asset for a rental player isn't worth it in this team's current situation. Holland's recently admitted he thinks he paid too much: http://www.theredwingsfeed.com/red-wings-gm-holland-promises-not-overpay-trade-deadline/#

To the second point, this makes me think Babcock is high on Green: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_begin_second_half_of.html

"They're a good team," Babcock said. "When (Mike) Green's your fifth D-man you must have a really good back end. I think Green's a star."

I'd say that's some nice praise. Things can change, obviously. Perhaps Green would come here, play poorly and dive headfirst into the dog house. At the very least, I think it shows Babcock has a desire to add an offensive guy to this roster. If it's not Green, it's someone else if a similar mindset/playing style.

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I do believe we're somewhat on the same page here, and I would like to have Green here, but not as a rental, especially giving up a major piece like Smith. I'd trade Kindl, a mid level prospect (Nastasiuk, Janmark or Marchenko if they'd prefer a defenseman) and a pick. If that can't get it done, I'd wait until the offseason. There is no reason Holland should feel like he HAS to make a move this year. Unless he can get a good deal on a top 4 right-handed defenseman, I think he should stand pat. "I like our team".

Also, I do remember Babcock saying that, but I think he would have said that about any player of Green's caliber in the 5 hole. I think he was referring more to Washington's depth at defense, rather than being high on Green as a player (although I'm sure he loves his offensive game). He is an offensive stud (star), and he would be a huge boost to our already potent power-play, but how much would Babcock trust him? I'm not sure.

One last point... Green is exactly the type of defenseman I think this team needs, and I've been saying that for months, so if we can get him as a rental for cheap, awesome, or if we can get him knowing that he would re-sign in the offseason, I'd have no problem giving up Smith. Again, my only issue with trading for a player like Green, is that it would likely be over payment, for a guy that I strongly believe will test the open market this summer. Sure, he may decide to stay here, especially if we go on a decent run, but that's not a risk I would take again, one year after the Legwand trade...

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I'm kind of looking back and trying to find comparable situations to this one, trying to gauge Green's value. These aren't really guys in the same mold as Green in terms of playing style, but some veteran, pending UFA's got the following:

Andrew MacDonald went for Matt Mangene, 2014 3rd and 2015 2nd.

Jay Bouwmeester went for Reto Berra, Mark Cundari 2013 or 2014 1st and 2013 conditional 4th.

Johnny Oduya went for 2013 2nd and 2013 3rd.

Zidlicky went for Kurtis Foster, Nick Palmieri, Stephane Veilleux, 2012 2nd and 2013 conditional. (though, I think Zidlicky still had one year on his deal)

Not sure what Detroit's version of these packages would be, but I thought it was interesting to gauge the value of defenders in a similar situation. Obviously, these guys aren't Mike Green, but I was actually underwhelmed by some of the returns.

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Found this interesting.

"Derek Van Diest of the Edmonton Sun: The Oilers will start selling off assets and look towards next season. Five players they could move before the March 2nd trade deadline.Jeff Petry hes not going to re-sign. He wont admit it, but hed prefer playing closer to his home on Ann Arbor, Michigan. They will try to get at least a 2nd round pick."

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/01/24/rumors-i-habs-sabres-avs-wings-coyotes-oilers-and-lightning/#comments

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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Kindl and 2nd? Do we have the cap space?

We will hve something like 9million cap space at the deadline I believe. It gets pro rated or something to that effect. We only acquire the remaining cap for the year. Plus kindl has a cap hit of 2.4, petry is 3.075, so Ya we definitely do.

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I think other teams could offer up a better package than we are willing to offer, but this is a no brainer if only just to get out of Kindl's contract. Plus, he'll be thrilled to be playing in Detroit. Does he have a NTC?

We wouldn't have that top 4 offensive defensemen we've always wanted but we would finally have some serious defensive depth that can make up for it

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I think other teams could offer up a better package than we are willing to offer, but this is a no brainer if only just to get out of Kindl's contract. Plus, he'll be thrilled to be playing in Detroit. Does he have a NTC?

We wouldn't have that top 4 offensive defensemen we've always wanted but we would finally have some serious defensive depth that can make up for it

Yeah but I think most teams realize he wants to come to Detroit anyway so they don't want to give up anything for him.

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Yeah but I think most teams realize he wants to come to Detroit anyway so they don't want to give up anything for him.

Serious contenders are probably okay with using him as a rental and I think he'd be alright with playing on a contender for a couple months then signing with us in the offseason. This is just a good opportunity to ditch Kindl and let him get accustomed to our team while gauging his value accurately. Also, because I'm impatient. That defensive lineup looks pretty good and maybe Smith can take a step forward playing with an experienced and talented partner

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Yeah, Holland would never sign a veteran and keep a kid in the minors... to increase depth... He would never go into training camp with more than 23 players... to increase competition... Never...

I totally expect Holland to sign a defenseman, whether it's Petry or not, don't be surprised if Ouellet starts next season in the minors... because he can...

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Although, I definitely can see Ouellet sticking with the Wings full time to start next season, and he probably should, I definitely wouldn't be at all surprised if he started the year once again down in Grand Rapids... To say you'd be surprised that a 22 year old kid stays in Grand Rapids for another year is a bit of stretch don't ya think? As far as I know Ken Holland is still managing this team... Seriously though, who was the last 22 year old defenseman to make the Red Wings full time? I can't recall anyone making this team that young...

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Although, I definitely can see Ouellet sticking with the Wings full time to start next season, and he probably should, I definitely wouldn't be at all surprised if he started the year once again down in Grand Rapids... To say you'd be surprised that a 22 year old kid stays in Grand Rapids for another year is a bit of stretch don't ya think? As far as I know Ken Holland is still managing this team... Seriously though, who was the last 22 year old defenseman to make the Red Wings full time? I can't recall anyone making this team that young...

My first guess was Mathieu Dandenault, born in 1976 and played 65 games in the 1996-1997 season, 34 the previous season. My second guess was Jiri Fischer, born 1980. He played 52 games in 1999-2000 but also spent time in the AHL, 55 in 2000-2001 again spending time in the AHL, and 80 in 2001-2002 e obvious answer is Lidstrom, but he was a generational talent that is not a fair comparison, born 1970 and playing 80 games in 1991-1992. Still, it has happened before. DeKeyser came close.

My gut says Ouellet will get sent down because he can, but I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed up.

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http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/02/06/rumors-v-oilers-blues-coyotes-rangers-ducks-caps-sens-and-isles/

"Matheson thinks the Oilers should hold out for a 2nd round pick and solid defenseman prospect for Jeff Petry. Should ask the Red Wings for Xavier Ouellet or Ryan Sproul and a pick for Petry."

I'd give em almquist and backmans rights plus a third, or Jensen and a fourth.

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