Osgood circa 2008 *Mod Advisory @ #18*

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

Osgood was great in 2008. I hope that his performance that year as well as 2009 eventually help solidify him as a hall of famer. I feel that if they won in 2009, he would be in the HOF or be in inevitable inductee.

I hate the argument that he had a great team in front of him. Many great teams have been bounced in the first round because of a bad goalie, or a bad performance by a goaltender. Anyone remember Legace in 2006 vs the Oilers/Roloson. Our team was clearly better, but Roloson simply outplayed Legace.

Osgood may be the most under-appreciated Wing in modern day history.

It seems like you are not remembering that series very well. The 8th seeded Oilers who were known as a run and gun, speedy team at the time literally overnight converted to a 1-2-2 (aka the trap) and blindsided the red wings and Mike Babcock. If you want to blame anyone for that series loss, blame Babcock for failing to help his team adjust. I remember this place blowing up during that series because the games were so frustrating to watch. The wings were kept to the perimeter for the entire series.

[rick zombo 3,739]

It seems like you are not remembering that series very well. The 8th seeded Oilers who were known as a run and gun, speedy team at the time literally overnight converted to a 1-2-2 (aka the trap) and blindsided the red wings and Mike Babcock. If you want to blame anyone for that series loss, blame Babcock for failing to help his team adjust. I remember this place blowing up during that series because the games were so frustrating to watch. The wings were kept to the perimeter for the entire series.

I agree with everything you just said. But Roloson was easily the better goalie in that series.

That, and Ozzie>>>>>>Legacy. It's not even close.

[kliq 3,755]

It seems like you are not remembering that series very well. The 8th seeded Oilers who were known as a run and gun, speedy team at the time literally overnight converted to a 1-2-2 (aka the trap) and blindsided the red wings and Mike Babcock. If you want to blame anyone for that series loss, blame Babcock for failing to help his team adjust. I remember this place blowing up during that series because the games were so frustrating to watch. The wings were kept to the perimeter for the entire series.

I watched every game of that series, and I was there in person for a game. What I remember is us dominating in puck possession and shots on goal, and Legace letting in weak goals.

It that series we out-shot the oilers 238-156 yet got outscored 19-17. I realize shots dont mean everything, but they definitely help tell the story.

I also remember in game 5 which I went to, the Wings coming out hard but Legace letting in a soft goal 5min into the second period which killed momentum.

EDIT: I do remember them keeping the Wings to the perimeter, I will give you that. But like Rick Zombo said, Roloson was easily the better goalie in that series. When the series was as tight on the scoreboard as it was and all of our losses were one goal games (not counting an empty net goal in game 2) I feel Roloson outplaying Legace was the difference maker.

Edited January 9, 2015 by kliq

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

I watched every game of that series, and I was there in person for a game. What I remember is us dominating in puck possession and shots on goal, and Legace letting in weak goals.

It that series we out-shot the oilers 238-156 yet got outscored 19-17. I realize shots dont mean everything, but they definitely help tell the story.

I also remember in game 5 which I went to, the Wings coming out hard but Legace letting in a soft goal 5min into the second period which killed momentum.

EDIT: I do remember them keeping the Wings to the perimeter, I will give you that. But like Rick Zombo said, Roloson was easily the better goalie in that series. When the series was as tight on the scoreboard as it was and all of our losses were one goal games (not counting an empty net goal in game 2) I feel Roloson outplaying Legace was the difference maker.

We peppered Roloson with tons of weak, wide angle shots. He really did not have to do too much. We didn't win that series because we couldn't score. 2.8 goals/game usually will not fare well for you no matter what. We had no problem in the regular season that year scoring 3.7 goals/ game. If we score on average one more goal each game suddenly two of those losses turn into possible victories. The team in 2008 also scored 3.3 goals per game in the playoffs, much better than 2.8.

I suppose you want to blame Cujo for 2004 as well? Almost the same situation. Wings can't score against trap team and goalie gets crucified.

Not sure how we got to this point in this thread, but we can all agree Osgood was exceptional in 2008/2009 and he deserves credit for that. 2006 was a blunder directly pointed towards Mike Babcock.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

I agree with everything you just said. But Roloson was easily the better goalie in that series.

That, and Ozzie>>>>>>Legacy. It's not even close.

Please do remember the context of this username before all the flaming. In 2005 there was a great goalie war here related to Osgood vs Legace. During that season, Manny was in fact greater than Osgood. There was a camp that wanted Osgood to play the majority of the games but he played poorly in many of his starts and Manny coming in as relief played lights out the entire season. Overall career vs. Career, of course Osgood had a better one. I'm not debating that.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Please do remember the context of this username before all the flaming. In 2005 there was a great goalie war here related to Osgood vs Legace. During that season, Manny was in fact greater than Osgood. There was a camp that wanted Osgood to play the majority of the games but he played poorly in many of his starts and Manny coming in as relief played lights out the entire season. Overall career vs. Career, of course Osgood had a better one. I'm not debating that.

Gotcha. Things make more sense now.

[kliq 3,755]

We peppered Roloson with tons of weak, wide angle shots. He really did not have to do too much. We didn't win that series because we couldn't score. 2.8 goals/game usually will not fare well for you no matter what. We had no problem in the regular season that year scoring 3.7 goals/ game. If we score on average one more goal each game suddenly two of those losses turn into possible victories. The team in 2008 also scored 3.3 goals per game in the playoffs, much better than 2.8.

I suppose you want to blame Cujo for 2004 as well? Almost the same situation. Wings can't score against trap team and goalie gets crucified.

Not sure how we got to this point in this thread, but we can all agree Osgood was exceptional in 2008/2009 and he deserves credit for that. 2006 was a blunder directly pointed towards Mike Babcock.

I admit there were some weak shots on Roloson, but you are making it sound as if every shot we took was a floater shot right at him, he played extremely good in that series and him outplaying Legace IMO was the difference maker in the series. I feel you are giving the team D all the credit, and Roloson virtually none. We had over 50 shots in Game 6, there is no way you can tell me all 50 were floaters from the perimeter.

We did only score 2.8 goals a game which was the main story, but IMO that low number is directly connected to the play of Roloson which is my main point....Roloson outplayed Legace.

Their team D/Roloson were definitely the big difference maker, but at the end of the days if Legace lets in less than 2.8 goals a game (which is not unheard of by any stretch) we win. I am not one to crap on goalies, it’s not how many goals Legace let in, it’s the type of goals he let in and when he let them in. He is not the only reason we lost that series by any stretch, but if we had an elite goalie playing for us that year, I think we win.

Lastly, please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said anything about Cujo in 2004 against the Flames. I do not put that loss on him at all. I do not remember him letting in bad goals like Legace did in 2006.

[gcom007 1,465]

When you've been a member of this site for almost 10 years, you can just sniff this stuff out. Plus LGW is just part of my daily routine. I just don't feel compelled to post very often.

I wouldn't either if I was stuck with your user name next to everything I wrote.

[chaps80 1,591]

I admit there were some weak shots on Roloson, but you are making it sound as if every shot we took was a floater shot right at him, he played extremely good in that series and him outplaying Legace IMO was the difference maker in the series. I feel you are giving the team D all the credit, and Roloson virtually none. We had over 50 shots in Game 6, there is no way you can tell me all 50 were floaters from the perimeter.

We did only score 2.8 goals a game which was the main story, but IMO that low number is directly connected to the play of Roloson which is my main point....Roloson outplayed Legace.

Their team D/Roloson were definitely the big difference maker, but at the end of the days if Legace lets in less than 2.8 goals a game (which is not unheard of by any stretch) we win. I am not one to crap on goalies, it’s not how many goals Legace let in, it’s the type of goals he let in and when he let them in. He is not the only reason we lost that series by any stretch, but if we had an elite goalie playing for us that year, I think we win.

Lastly, please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said anything about Cujo in 2004 against the Flames. I do not put that loss on him at all. I do not remember him letting in bad goals like Legace did in 2006.

Yeah, Legace really s*** the bed in that series now that I think back to it. Some of the goals he let in were downright embarrassing. Funny thing is he was offered a multi-year deal for damn good money by Holland during the regular season, but did'nt want to sign until after the season to see if he could get a better offer elsewhere, therefore making Holland offer him even more money to stay. That strategy did'nt work out very well for him. lol

[Yzerfan87 146]

I suppose you want to blame Cujo for 2004 as well? Almost the same situation. Wings can't score against trap team and goalie gets crucified.

Cujo still gets crap for 2003 and 2004, yet he was incredible. The Wings could not score on Giguere and Kipper, respectively. If I'm not mistaken, Cujo has the lowest playoff GAA in recent Wings history. But he was blamed for the losses entirely.

[kipwinger 8,491]

Cujo still gets crap for 2003 and 2004, yet he was incredible. The Wings could not score on Giguere and Kipper, respectively. If I'm not mistaken, Cujo has the lowest playoff GAA in recent Wings history. But he was blamed for the losses entirely.

Nevermind, I was looking at the wrong stat.

Cujo had a 1.39 GAA to Osgood's 1.55 GAA. Dang, that's some goal-tendin'.

Edited January 9, 2015 by kipwinger

[Mckinley25 677]

Cujo still gets crap for 2003 and 2004, yet he was incredible. The Wings could not score on Giguere and Kipper, respectively. If I'm not mistaken, Cujo has the lowest playoff GAA in recent Wings history. But he was blamed for the losses entirely.

i seriously don't remember anyone blaming Cujo. Was it the media or just fans?

[chaps80 1,591]

Cujo was awesome in the playoffs. Those losses def were not his fault. Who was the pylon just standing in front of the net who should have been covering Yelle when he scored the Game 6 OT goal? Was it Hatcher? And I seem to remember Cujo almost stopped it anyway.

[Yzerfan87 146]

i seriously don't remember anyone blaming Cujo. Was it the media or just fans?

It was a lot of both that I recall. And then the whole Hasek fiasco just made things worse. In my opinion, that goalie controversy was the worst management in memory, regarding the Wings

[chaps80 1,591]

Well Holland had first crack at Hasek when he decided to end his retirement after one year, due to technicalities. You can't blame Holland for taking him back, but he should'nt have kept both Hasek and Cujo. By rights, he should have just traded Hasek for what I would imagine would have been a hell of a package in return. Cujo was signed because Hasek "retired", and he left Toronto, the team he loved playing for, for a crack at a cup, and obv to be the top guy. It should have been his team. Hasek ended up getting hurt anyways though after only playing 14 games, and was out for the season, and even voluntarily forfeited his salary($8 million), so Cujo became the number 1 goalie anyways. But yeah, keeping both goalies of that calibre was bad management. Was'nt Cujo even sent to GR for a time for a "conditioning stint"?

Edited January 11, 2015 by chaps80

[kliq 3,755]

Well Holland had first crack at Hasek when he decided to end his retirement after one year, due to technicalities. You can't blame Holland for taking him back, but he should'nt have kept both Hasek and Cujo. By rights, he should have just traded Hasek for what I would imagine would have been a hell of a package in return. Cujo was signed because Hasek "retired", and he left Toronto, the team he loved playing for, for a crack at a cup, and obv to be the top guy. It should have been his team. Hasek ended up getting hurt anyways though after only playing 14 games, and was out for the season, and even voluntarily forfeited his salary($8 million), so Cujo became the number 1 goalie anyways. But yeah, keeping both goalies of that calibre was bad management. Was'nt Cujo even sent to GR for a time for a "conditioning stint"?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=1642810

[chaps80 1,591]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=1642810

Wow, I forgot that they had tried to trade Cujo, It should have been Hasek. And then to demote him to the minors cause of a goalie logjam? What a s***ty way to be treated. Good thing they could'nt trade him though, cause Hasek did'nt last very long.

[gcom007 1,465]

Wow, I forgot that they had tried to trade Cujo, It should have been Hasek. And then to demote him to the minors cause of a goalie logjam? What a s***ty way to be treated. Good thing they could'nt trade him though, cause Hasek did'nt last very long.

The who situation was a s***show. Holland knee-jerk signs Hasek to keep him from a rival and the whole thing blows up in his face. It was just a bad move in every possible way. I respect the goalie that Hasek was, but the guy was the focus point for about the only drama this team has had in the last ten years. I give him credit for going out humbly in 2008 when he got pulled, he handled it like a class act, but I still in many ways wish we would've just skipped the Hasek era altogether.

And anyone who wants to try to take anything from Cujo's playoff performance while here is a damn fool. The guy was about our only bright spot.

[chaps80 1,591]

Thats why I said he should have just signed and flipped Hasek to the Eastern Conference for a nice return. I would have taken him back too, but not kept him and tried to trade Cujo and send him to the minors when he could'nt after coaxing him away from the Leafs and all that. Total s***show on Holland's part indeed.

And Cujo's playoff performances were great.

[Rivalred 630]

Cujo deserved better...

[chaps80 1,591]

Cujo deserved better...

He should have been resigned. No idea if he was given an offer from Holland, but I def don't blame him if he told him to shove it up his ass, Besides, we had Legace anyways. LOL

[kliq 3,755]

He should have been resigned. No idea if he was given an offer from Holland, but I def don't blame him if he told him to shove it up his ass, Besides, we had Legace anyways. LOL

Joseph is my favourite goalie of all time, and I hate the way he was treated here. I also think he played great for us in the playoffs and that it was unfair that he was a scapegoat.

But with that being said, not re-signing him was the right decision, after leaving Detroit he was never the same player as after the lockout age simply caught up with him. His GAA over the next 4 years was 2.91, 3.19, 2.55, 3.57.

But I guess come playoff time it couldn't have been too much worse then Legace lol.

Edited January 11, 2015 by kliq

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

He should have been resigned. No idea if he was given an offer from Holland, but I def don't blame him if he told him to shove it up his ass, Besides, we had Legace anyways. LOL

Look at Legace's stats that year...pretty stellar. He ended up playing the most out of the three that year. Pretty sure he was given a nod in the playoffs over Cujo if I am not mistaken.

[kliq 3,755]

Look at Legace's stats that year...pretty stellar. He ended up playing the most out of the three that year. Pretty sure he was given a nod in the playoffs over Cujo if I am not mistaken.

In 2004 Legace was the starter going into the playoffs, but after losing games 3 and 4 to Nashville and letting in 6 goals in those 2 games he was benched in favor of Cujo who allowed only 1 goal in games 5 & 6 combined.

Cujo played great got us, in the 6 games in the Calgary series he only let in 11 goals in 6 games. Legace on the other hand, while playing good in the regular season, was bad in the playoffs, just like he was the following season against Edmonton.

[Yzerfan87 146]

Joseph is my favourite goalie of all time, and I hate the way he was treated here. I also think he played great for us in the playoffs and that it was unfair that he was a scapegoat.

But with that being said, not re-signing him was the right decision, after leaving Detroit he was never the same player as after the lockout age simply caught up with him. His GAA over the next 4 years was 2.91, 3.19, 2.55, 3.57.

But I guess come playoff time it couldn't have been too much worse then Legace lol.

He also was playing for Gretzky's coyotes who were absolutely terrible at the time. He may be the best goalie to never win the cup. Luongo is the only goalie that I can think of who would even compare.