Franzen on IR

[Chunkylover 26]

Equating his acknowledgement of performance anxiety with "emotional issues" not only grossly simplifies whatever it is that holds Franzen back from dominating the NHL, but it also demonstrates a REMARKABLY narrow understanding of mental health issues. Just stop.

It does nothing of the sort. Anxiety is an emotion. I didn't say he had "mental health issues" because I thought it would be somewhat equivocal.

There is nothing gross, simplistic, remarkable, or narrow about my comment. I think I understand in some way what he described in the early interview, and it could be something that still affects him.

Some people think their observation is infallible and they make statements that are disrespectful. I'm calling for compassion as it is possible there is more to the issue than they see.

[Chunkylover 26]

Didn't he play through a subdural hematoma while simultaneously tearing through the Avalanche in 2008? Yes, that was a while ago, but maybe he does play through injury when it is A. not diagnosed, or B. not threatening to his quality of life after hockey. 2008 was before all the NFL and NHL concussion-related suicides. Maybe he doesn't want to end up like some. Can anyone blame him for that?

[kipwinger 8,522]

I think it's splitting hairs by whether you call it a mental health issue or an "emotional issue" But if a guy says that thoughts of trying NOT scoring a goal have crossed through his mind while playing, it's something that can't be totally ignored. I'm definitely not a Franzen basher, but at times, he has literally looked like a guy who is afraid to be out there. I don't think it's any more of a character assassination than it is to speculate about a player with a history of a physical injury who has been struggling on the ice might be having a recurrence of the injury.

There are all sorts of mental health issues, only some of which deal with emotions. That's the difference. So no, it's not splitting hairs.

Otherwise, I agree that it's perfectly reasonable to wonder why a guy's having a down year IF he is indeed having one. However, in this case I think his character is being assassinated based on two things...A) We already know why he's out of the lineup. He's got a neck injury (whiplash) which has been diagnosed. B) He's not having a down year. 22 pts. in 33 games puts him on pretty much the exact same scoring pace as he's produced at for the whole of his career. There's nothing to suggest that his game is suffering, and if it were, there's nothing to suggest it's anything other than the injury sustained during the hit to the head.

He's injured. He's not a malingerer, and if he has had (most aren't permanent) mental health issues, there's no reason to believe they're what's keeping him out of the lineup or causing a down year (which he isn't).

[Buppy 1,720]

There are all sorts of mental health issues, only some of which deal with emotions. That's the difference. So no, it's not splitting hairs.

Otherwise, I agree that it's perfectly reasonable to wonder why a guy's having a down year IF he is indeed having one. However, in this case I think his character is being assassinated based on two things...A) We already know why he's out of the lineup. He's got a neck injury (whiplash) which has been diagnosed. B) He's not having a down year. 22 pts. in 33 games puts him on pretty much the exact same scoring pace as he's produced at for the whole of his career. There's nothing to suggest that his game is suffering, and if it were, there's nothing to suggest it's anything other than the injury sustained during the hit to the head.

He's injured. He's not a malingerer, and if he has had (most aren't permanent) mental health issues, there's no reason to believe they're what's keeping him out of the lineup or causing a down year (which he isn't).

According to Rotoworld, he still suffering headaches.

The speculation regarding a mental health issue is likely due to my saying there is evidence that such issues can make PCS worse and/or more likely. I don't think anyone's trying to say he's sitting out because he's got anxiety.

[Chunkylover 26]

There are all sorts of mental health issues, only some of which deal with emotions. That's the difference. So no, it's not splitting hairs.

Otherwise, I agree that it's perfectly reasonable to wonder why a guy's having a down year IF he is indeed having one. However, in this case I think his character is being assassinated based on two things...A) We already know why he's out of the lineup. He's got a neck injury (whiplash) which has been diagnosed. B) He's not having a down year. 22 pts. in 33 games puts him on pretty much the exact same scoring pace as he's produced at for the whole of his career. There's nothing to suggest that his game is suffering, and if it were, there's nothing to suggest it's anything other than the injury sustained during the hit to the head.

He's injured. He's not a malingerer, and if he has had (most aren't permanent) mental health issues, there's no reason to believe they're what's keeping him out of the lineup or causing a down year (which he isn't).

My mistake, man. I was responding to the notion that some have that he is lazy and sucks. I don't think so, and I know many also do not. Your summary makes sense in the immediate sense. I wasn't intending to accuse him of sitting out because of emotional or mental issues. I was addressing his streakiness that some consider laziness. I should have been more specific.

[kipwinger 8,522]

According to Rotoworld, he still suffering headaches.

The speculation regarding a mental health issue is likely due to my saying there is evidence that such issues can make PCS worse and/or more likely. I don't think anyone's trying to say he's sitting out because he's got anxiety.

My mistake, man. I was responding to the notion that some have that he is lazy and sucks. I don't think so, and I know many also do not. Your summary makes sense in the immediate sense. I wasn't intending to accuse him of sitting out because of emotional or mental issues. I was addressing his streakiness that some consider laziness. I should have been more specific.

My mistake as well. Your comments came on the heels of speculation that Franzen was deliberately taking extra time to recuperate from injury, despite not needing it. I thought you were adding speculation on his mental health to support that. Nevertheless, I stand behind my two earlier statements. We know why Franzen is out of the lineup, and we know that he's not having a noticeably different year (in terms of production) than previous efforts. So if he is still suffering from anxiety, it doesn't seem to be affecting his ppg too much.

[puckloo39 5,686]

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/practice-tweets-wings-get-back-to-work-minus-howard-kindl?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

still no Mule. Anyone else think he's done, at least until the playoffs? Perhaps he has an errant Forsberg gene, which only allows him to show up magnificently at playoffs, but needs to take the rest of the season off, to do so?

Edited January 26, 2015 by puckloo39

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/practice-tweets-wings-get-back-to-work-minus-howard-kindl?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

still no Mule. Anyone else think he's done, at least until the playoffs? Perhaps he has an errant Forsberg gene, which only allows him to show up magnificently at playoffs, but needs to take the rest of the season off, to do so?

I never wish for our guys to be injured, but with our depth, I have no problem if Franzen is on IR till the trade deadline when the 23-man roster limit is lifted.

That way we could keep Ouellet up and not have to expose Kindl to waivers(if he's not traded).

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

I never wish for our guys to be injured, but with our depth, I have no problem if Franzen is on IR till the trade deadline when the 23-man roster limit is lifted.

That way we could keep Ouellet up and not have to expose Kindl to waivers(if he's not traded).

I thought the roster limits were lifted only in the playoffs

[dirtydangles 1,328]

You never ask for a player to be injured - but I can't say I will miss Franzen while he is out. He has not been contributing of late and isn't really putting in the effort to make up for his dip in production.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I thought the roster limits were lifted only in the playoffs

No, the 23 man limit is lifted immediately following the trade deadline.

It's the salary cap that ceases to apply in the playoffs.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

See now I just can't help but think that he likes it.

Who wouldn't? That is one dapper m*****f*****!

[LeftWinger 4,958]

after this season, the Wings owe Franzen about $12.5M on his contract. He needs to be bought out, simple. Pulkkinen and Jurco BOTH need to be here next season, they are both out of exemptions and again, they are a integral part of our future. Losing Cleary and buying out Franzen will open up the two roster spots needed. Andersson can be re-signed and is a perfect 13th forward to rotate in and out. This has very little to do with my dislike for Franzen and more for my love of our deserving kids. I do not want to lose another prospect due to an overcrowded roster of useless players...

[kipwinger 8,522]

after this season, the Wings owe Franzen about $12.5M on his contract. He needs to be bought out, simple. Pulkkinen and Jurco BOTH need to be here next season, they are both out of exemptions and again, they are a integral part of our future. Losing Cleary and buying out Franzen will open up the two roster spots needed. Andersson can be re-signed and is a perfect 13th forward to rotate in and out. This has very little to do with my dislike for Franzen and more for my love of our deserving kids. I do not want to lose another prospect due to an overcrowded roster of useless players...

Which prospect did we lose due to roster overcrowding?

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I'm gonna guess he's referring to jarnkrök

[vladdy16 2,154]

after this season, the Wings owe Franzen about $12.5M on his contract. He needs to be bought out, simple. Pulkkinen and Jurco BOTH need to be here next season, they are both out of exemptions and again, they are a integral part of our future. Losing Cleary and buying out Franzen will open up the two roster spots needed. Andersson can be re-signed and is a perfect 13th forward to rotate in and out. This has very little to do with my dislike for Franzen and more for my love of our deserving kids. I do not want to lose another prospect due to an overcrowded roster of useless players...

Isn't there a clause in the CBA that prevents teams from buying out injured players? If he hasn't recovered from whatever's going on with him, Wings may not have that option, even if they did want to execute it.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

If he is going to stay out, then just keep him on ltir, no buyout, no dead cap space.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Isn't there a clause in the CBA that prevents teams from buying out injured players? If he hasn't recovered from whatever's going on with him, Wings may not have that option, even if they did want to execute it.

You are absolutely correct. That was actually the reason the Wings had to play out the string with Sammy's contract. He was still considered injured during the buyout window.

It's sounding more & more though that Franzen's career could very well be cut short by concussion symptoms. If that's the case, the Wings will get cap relief with the sole exception that they'll need to be at or below the cap with Franzen's salary included for one day at the start of each season which is what Philly & Boston have to do with the Pronger & Savard situations. Well, that is until the trolls in NHL HQ decide to change that rule too eventually.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

You are absolutely correct. That was actually the reason the Wings had to play out the string with Sammy's contract. He was still considered injured during the buyout window.

It's sounding more & more though that Franzen's career could very well be cut short by concussion symptoms. If that's the case, the Wings will get cap relief with the sole exception that they'll need to be at or below the cap with Franzen's salary included for one day at the start of each season which is what Philly & Boston have to do with the Pronger & Savard situations. Well, that is until the trolls in NHL HQ decide to change that rule too eventually.

As long as pronger is on the NHL and flyers payroll the rule wont change.

[gcom007 1,465]

You are absolutely correct. That was actually the reason the Wings had to play out the string with Sammy's contract. He was still considered injured during the buyout window.

It's sounding more & more though that Franzen's career could very well be cut short by concussion symptoms. If that's the case, the Wings will get cap relief with the sole exception that they'll need to be at or below the cap with Franzen's salary included for one day at the start of each season which is what Philly & Boston have to do with the Pronger & Savard situations. Well, that is until the trolls in NHL HQ decide to change that rule too eventually.

Has anything from actual sources suggested his career could be cut short or is it just speculation from fans? I haven't followed this closely, but I also haven't heard anything remotely official about this, and I would've thought that'd be a little bit bigger news around here if true.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Fan speculation...

[LeftWinger 4,958]

...how soon we forget. We lost Nestrasil. I know, he wasn't the best, but we still lost him due to overcrowding. Jurco had exemptions, but he was obviously better, so Holland kept him. Nesty wasn't a huge loss, but we still lost him.

Next year BOTH Jurco and Pulkkinen are out of exemptions. We lose Cleary to UFA. That's it. Now Jurco and Pulkkinen are vying for one spot. Holland WILL re-sign Nyquist, Jurco and Andersson (all RFA's) so that will leave just one spot. It was minimal damage losing Nestrasil, but do you really want to lose one of Jurco or Pulk? Especially at the cost of keeping Franzen and his headcase here? The time has come. Either buy him out or give him the Pronger treatment for the next 5 years. If we lose one of those two so we can have Franzen float around out there and peter in a few points and shots here and there, then something is wrong with Holland, seriously. Stop the bleeding somehow. Just don't lose Jurco or Pulk or ANYBODY else to roster overcrowding by useless players.

And, no it's not "fan speculation" on Franzen's head problems. Its been said time after time, that he gets into funks that cause him to lose focus and have no desire to do anything. The only speculation is what may be causing this...nothing personal Johan, just business, we need that roster spot.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

...how soon we forget. We lost Nestrasil. I know, he wasn't the best, but we still lost him due to overcrowding. Jurco had exemptions, but he was obviously better, so Holland kept him. Nesty wasn't a huge loss, but we still lost him.

Next year BOTH Jurco and Pulkkinen are out of exemptions. We lose Cleary to UFA. That's it. Now Jurco and Pulkkinen are vying for one spot. Holland WILL re-sign Nyquist, Jurco and Andersson (all RFA's) so that will leave just one spot. It was minimal damage losing Nestrasil, but do you really want to lose one of Jurco or Pulk? Especially at the cost of keeping Franzen and his headcase here? The time has come. Either buy him out or give him the Pronger treatment for the next 5 years. If we lose one of those two so we can have Franzen float around out there and peter in a few points and shots here and there, then something is wrong with Holland, seriously. Stop the bleeding somehow. Just don't lose Jurco or Pulk or ANYBODY else to roster overcrowding by useless players.

And, no it's not "fan speculation" on Franzen's head problems. Its been said time after time, that he gets into funks that cause him to lose focus and have no desire to do anything. The only speculation is what may be causing this...nothing personal Johan, just business, we need that roster spot.

Ha LGW knows better. You've had a personal hatred for Franzen for as long as I can remember.

And no Holland will not resign and keep Anderson at the expense of Jurco/Pulkkinen

[Jesusberg 1,256]

...how soon we forget. We lost Nestrasil. I know, he wasn't the best, but we still lost him due to overcrowding. Jurco had exemptions, but he was obviously better, so Holland kept him. Nesty wasn't a huge loss, but we still lost him.

Next year BOTH Jurco and Pulkkinen are out of exemptions. We lose Cleary to UFA. That's it. Now Jurco and Pulkkinen are vying for one spot. Holland WILL re-sign Nyquist, Jurco and Andersson (all RFA's) so that will leave just one spot. It was minimal damage losing Nestrasil, but do you really want to lose one of Jurco or Pulk? Especially at the cost of keeping Franzen and his headcase here? The time has come. Either buy him out or give him the Pronger treatment for the next 5 years. If we lose one of those two so we can have Franzen float around out there and peter in a few points and shots here and there, then something is wrong with Holland, seriously. Stop the bleeding somehow. Just don't lose Jurco or Pulk or ANYBODY else to roster overcrowding by useless players.

And, no it's not "fan speculation" on Franzen's head problems. Its been said time after time, that he gets into funks that cause him to lose focus and have no desire to do anything. The only speculation is what may be causing this...nothing personal Johan, just business, we need that roster spot.

What kind of math are you doing?

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, Helm, Abdelkader, Sheahan, Jurco, Miller & Glendening make 13 guys... Cleary's spot opens up the spot for Pulkkinen. How did Tatar begin last season? As a healthy scratch, working his way into the line-up. There's no reason to suggest that the same won't be done here.

I'd even venture to say that the Red Wings could let Andersson go, letting Callahan or Ferraro take his spot on the roster. They've let RFA go before.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Has anything from actual sources suggested his career could be cut short or is it just speculation from fans? I haven't followed this closely, but I also haven't heard anything remotely official about this, and I would've thought that'd be a little bit bigger news around here if true.

Speculation but given the fact that he's out for another extended period of time because of headaches, signs are kind of pointing in that direction are they not?