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e_prime

McGratton on waivers

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Don't forget ***. Frankgrimes made it clear above that if there's no fighting, hockey will become "as homosexual as other sports".

The great Champion of fighting wants enforcers in the game, why? So it doesn't turn ***. Lol.

Even if I didn't care about fighting in hockey I'd be against it just so I didn't have to agree with anyone who thinks something like that.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around that logic...when no one is throwing punches everyone starts to think about the D (and I don't mean Detroit.)

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I have no problem with tough players, and I would actually like to have a player on our forth line that can throw 'em when needed. However, he has to be a hockey player first, not a pure goon that can barely skate without one iota of hockey IQ... I hate staged fights, and guys that fight every single game, because they know that's all they can do to remain in the National Hockey League. However, the Weber on Zetterberg incident, or Cowen on Datsyuk incident, or Lucic on DeKeyser incident, or any handful of others, I like having a guy that can step in and let the opposition know, if you're going to run our guys, there will be someone to answer to. I loved when Ericsson went after Nolan for the hit on Helm. I'm not anti-fighting by any means, I'm just anti-players-like-McGrattan, that can't play hockey.

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I'm confused about one thing when it comes to frankgrimes and GMRwings1983 and whoever else there is that dies for fighting and goons that don't have a clue how to actually play hockey... You're all very aware of the fact that Holland wants nothing to do with guys like McGrattan, a "player" like that will never be employed by the Detroit Red Wings, so why are you still fans of such "weak", "pussified" team?... I'm not telling you you shouldn't be a Red Wings fan, but I'm just curious as to why you are?...

Not to mention Babcock won't play fighters, the players who fought in the past stopped once they got to Detroit, and previously Holland has employed fighters.

Probably because we grew up Red Wings fans and they've only become "pussified" in recent years. I'm not going to stop rooting for a team because they're a bunch of *******, but I certainly have the right to mourn the loss of team toughness. And I don't necessarily want a talentless goon; I'd settle for Chris Neil, Matt Martin... even Lucic, or Proust. Anyone who actually still knows how to throw a check or stand up for a teammate will suffice.

When was the last time Kronwall hit someone. Not that he is all that tuff... Instead we have our top talent getting in situations they shouldnt be.

When the NHL started suspending people for clean hits

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Because we're Wings fans first. We won't root for someone else.

But that doesn't mean I have to accept every cheap piece of europuss that Holland has to stick on the roster.

And if that's not enough, let's just say I want an enforcer on the team just to see kipwinger throwing temper tantrums and starting threads about how useless that player is.

Lol.

Tell me again about how useful McGuffin is on the day that he cleared waivers?

I suppose 30 NHL General Managers are just as ***, pussified, and delusional as I am eh?

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I have no problem with tough players, and I would actually like to have a player on our forth line that can throw 'em when needed. However, he has to be a hockey player first, not a pure goon that can barely skate without one iota of hockey IQ... I hate staged fights, and guys that fight every single game, because they knowthat's all they can do to remain in the National Hockey League. However, the Weber on Zetterberg incident, or Cowen on Datsyuk incident, or Lucic on DeKeyser incident, or any handful of others, I like having a guy that can step in and let the opposition know, if you're going to run our guys, there will be someone to answer to. I loved when Ericsson went after Nolan for the hit on Helm. I'm not anti-fighting by any means, I'm just anti-players-like-McGrattan, that can't play hockey.

See we aren't that different then. The only small difference is a that I don't mind staged fights between two willing players, if it helps them paying their bills and enjoy a very wealthy life more power to them.

Edited by frankgrimes

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See we aren't that different then. The only small difference is a that I don't mind staged fights between two willing players, if it helps them paying their bills and enjoy a very wealthy life more power to them.

Why do you like staged fights in the NHL, but you dont like MMA? (im pretty sure you said this before, my apologies if I am remembering this wrong) If fighting is something you like, why not just watch fighting?

I personally hate staged fights, I feel like guys are hurting themselves for nothing. I agree with everything krsmith17 said, if an idiot like Lucic does something stupid to one of out players, I would love to have a guy that can step in, but only if that guy can also play hockey and is not just a goon.

I use the comparison to MMA, because at least in MMA guys are fighting.....maybe 4 times a year at most??. In the NHL these guys are taking blows to the head over and over and over again for no reason. Sure it may help pay their bills, but at what expense? I'd rather have less money but be able to enjoy my life after hockey.

I knew a guy who played in the AHL and a few games in the NHL, and now he is in his early 30's and suffers from concussion related issues. He said that he was put into a position where he felt (at the AHL level) that he had to fight or he would lose his job, nobody should have to feel that way. Now, so many year later the guy is paying the price. Fighting on occasion to protect a person, I can live with that. Fighting day in, day out, to me is just plain stupid.

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I knew a guy who played in the AHL and a few games in the NHL, and now he is in his early 30's and suffers from concussion related issues. He said that he was put into a position where he felt (at the AHL level) that he had to fight or he would lose his job, nobody should have to feel that way. Now, so many year later the guy is paying the price. Fighting on occasion to protect a person, I can live with that. Fighting day in, day out, to me is just plain stupid.

This is the main reason for me why enforcers don't belong to the game. How can you enjoy a staged fight if you know the storys of Boogard and our very own Probert ? If a fight sparks from the heat of the moment, fine, let them go. But those barenuckle fights are just to dangerous to do them night in and night out. And I don't want players on the ice forced to do them.

Edited by derblaueClaus

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I knew a guy who played in the AHL and a few games in the NHL, and now he is in his early 30's and suffers from concussion related issues. He said that he was put into a position where he felt (at the AHL level) that he had to fight or he would lose his job, nobody should have to feel that way. Now, so many year later the guy is paying the price. Fighting on occasion to protect a person, I can live with that. Fighting day in, day out, to me is just plain stupid.

This is the main reason for me why enforcers don't belong to the game. How can you enjoy a staged fight if you know the storys of Boogard and our very own Probert ? If a fight sparks from the heat of the moment, fine, let them go. But those barenuckle fights are just to dangerous to do them night in and night out. And I don't want players on the ice forced to do them.

It's their choice though. I don't like meatheads fighting just to fight, but regardless of what the lawsuits claim, they know damn well what the risks are and choose to do it anyway.

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I personally hate staged fights, I feel like guys are hurting themselves for nothing. I agree with everything krsmith17 said, if an idiot like Lucic does something stupid to one of out players, I would love to have a guy that can step in, but only if that guy can also play hockey and is not just a goon.

Agree with most of what you've said, and I've agreed with this sentiment in the past, but I think Detroit isn't in a situation where they can't even afford to give up a spot to that type of player. We're pretty much devoid of offensive blueliners, so it takes 8 forwards to run this team's PP. Unless you're doubling up on someone, that leaves 4 guys for the PK.

Taking a look at the top 10 leaders in fighting majors, it's tough to find someone who could actually fit a need for this team. I see value in Dorsett, Prust, Roussel and Wilson.

I'm surprised that Dorsett has chipped in what he has on offense, especially considering his TOI. I don't really like him as a player, but objectively, I'll admit he has some value. Roussel and Prust play some time on the PK, and chip in offensively. Both get more time than your average 4th liner, though. I don't see either guy being in this team's top 9, so I wonder how they'd fare here with less minutes. I'd give both of them a spot over Andersson without hesitation, but that has more to do with their overall game than their willingness to drop the gloves.

Wilson... I don't understand how he's being used, to be honest. He actually has potential, and is a whole other type of player. I'm sure when Washington clears up something on the right side, his role on the team is going to change.

The other 6 guys (Boll, Tootoo, Crombeen, Martin, McLeod & Borowiecki) I don't see as having much value, for one reason or another. All in all, it'd be nice to have an element to keep other players honest, but I think it's tough to find a guy who can do that and contribute on the 4th line.

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It's their choice though. I don't like meatheads fighting just to fight, but regardless of what the lawsuits claim, they know damn well what the risks are and choose to do it anyway.

In case of the enforcer yes and no, in case of the "enforced" certainly no. It's a little bit more complicated. Enforcers are on the team only because they fight. Guys like Boogard or McGrattan don't have what it takes to play in the NHL. The only way to do that is by fighting night in and night out. If you're dreaming you're whole life to play in the best hockey league in the world and you get the chance : Would it be easy for you to say no ? I mean technically you're right, they have the choice. But the whole matter is a little bit more complicated than just saying "well, it's their choice".

In any case the league has the obligation to protect their players. Following your argument we can, for example, put rules that forbid hits to the head into the bin, because it is part of playing hockey and the players have the freedom of choice to play. They can say no, right ?

Edited by derblaueClaus

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In case of the enforcer yes and no, in case of the "enforced" certainly no. It's a little bit more complicated. Enforcers are on the team only because they fight. Guys like Boogard or McGrattan don't have what it takes to play in the NHL. The only way to do that is by fighting night in and night out. If you're dreaming you're whole life to play in the best hockey league in the world and you get the chance : Would it be easy for you to say no ? I mean technically you're right, they have the choice. But the whole matter is a little bit more complicated than just saying "well, it's their choice".

In any case the league has the obligation to protect their players. Following your argument we can, for example, put rules that forbid hits to the head into the bin, because it is part of playing hockey and the players have the freedom of choice to play. They can say no, right ?

So if I'm driving on icy roads that haven't been salted yet, I know they are icy and I don't use caution when driving and get in an accident it's the city's fault right? I mean I knew the risks but I did it anyway but the city has an obligation to salt those roads Edited by Euro_Twins

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No .The point is if the city provides you with roads it is their obligation to salt them ( as it is yours to salt your own ones btw.). Regardless of how reckless or save you drive.

I didn't say it's all the leagues fault and not the player. But to say the other way around, it's all the players fault and rest of the league has nothing to do with it doesn't do justice to the subject matter.

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Yes... by all means... let's have more of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHWewjbAKSg#t=41

"I'm not sure what precipitated that fight... ...cuz both blue liners well out of each other zone... [he's bleeding badly] but right off the face off they knew what they wanted" ...[he took it right to the mouth] there is a nasty puddle... [those of us that don't mind fighting and although i've already made my comments known about staged fights but even if you like the fights [you don't wanna see something like this.]"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tinordi-goes-down-hard-in-scary-ahl-fight/

...and just to remind everyone what this thread is really about and so it stays on topic:

ThumbsupDon

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So if I'm driving on icy roads that haven't been salted yet, I know they are icy and I don't use caution when driving and get in an accident it's the city's fault right? I mean I knew the risks but I did it anyway but the city has an obligation to salt those roads

I would say the city has an obligation to make the roads as safe as possible, but drivers should exercise caution in any conditions. I'm not certain how fitting your comparison is, but it does illustrate that both parties should be invested in the safety of the individual. The driver in your example and the hockey player in the topic of discussion.

I have sympathy for the players who have invested so much of their life into the game it would seem impossible to quit if fighting meant they didn't have to. But... If fighting is the only reason they have a job, then they are not good enough to play and that's no more tragic than any prospect who doesn't make the team because 23 other players are better or used to be better and have shook Holland's hand at some point.

The league also needs to address player safety in regards to fighting. Head shots are not permitted for safety reasons and can result in fines and suspensions and they happen during play. Fights occur outside the play, are clearly dangerous as well and the offending parties are at best thrown out of the game and at worst sit 5 minutes in the box.

Both sides need to solve this issue.

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So if I'm driving on icy roads that haven't been salted yet, I know they are icy and I don't use caution when driving and get in an accident it's the city's fault right? I mean I knew the risks but I did it anyway but the city has an obligation to salt those roads

This analogy doesn't work. The only reason many of these enforcers are in the NHL is to put themselves at risk and fight. If they don't do that, they're going to lose their job to someone who can actually play hockey, or is willing to fight regularly. So the unsalted road comparison would be more accurate if we said enforcers could only live in our city if they drive recklessly on unsalted roads, and the rest of us can use the salted roads as we please. If they don't like it, they have to move to a different city.

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So if I'm driving on icy roads that haven't been salted yet, I know they are icy and I don't use caution when driving and get in an accident it's the city's fault right? I mean I knew the risks but I did it anyway but the city has an obligation to salt those roads

You've lived in Windsor too long, man. I know Uncle Eddie used all his money on the Aquatic Centre, but the city is supposed to salt the roads ;)

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