Jimmy Howard.......All-Star!

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Depends how you see the All Star games. If it is some sort of reward, send the young kids like Tatar or Nyquist.

If it is a pain in the arse for players, then send Weiss or Franzen as punishment.

I know ... teams don't send players, the NHL's office does but if it were up to the team.

Why would Weiss go as a punishment ?

[RedWingsRox 614]

Why would Weiss go as a punishment ?

Because he's been a huge disappointment so far ...

Edited January 17, 2015 by RedWingsRox

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Because he's been a huge disappointment so far ...

Ya he should be getting a point per game playing 10 minutes a night... *sigh*

[roboturner 562]

I want you're honest opinion.

Does anybody really miss Howard right now?

It sure seems like the team isn't. Did anybody hear Sheahan's post game comments to Keating? I'll paraphrase (cuz I don't remember exactly what he said) "We're really comfortable with him back there, he's great at playing the puck and starting our breakout..."

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I want you're honest opinion.

Does anybody really miss Howard right now?

It sure seems like the team isn't. Did anybody hear Sheahan's post game comments to Keating? I'll paraphrase (cuz I don't remember exactly what he said) "We're really comfortable with him back there, he's great at playing the puck and starting our breakout..."

Yup they feel comfortable with him. That totally translates to we don't need our top 10 goalie back.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yup they feel comfortable with him. That totally translates to we don't need our top 10 goalie back.

Totally. Just gotta read between the lines.

[roboturner 562]

Yup they feel comfortable with him. That totally translates to we don't need our top 10 goalie back.

Right, just ignore the part about how his playing style helps the team....

Mrazek is putting up similar numbers to Howard's (so also 'Top 10') and has won 3 straight

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Right, just ignore the part about how his playing style helps the team....

Mrazek is putting up similar numbers to Howard's (so also 'Top 10') and has won 3 straight

Yes mrazek is putting up good numbers, and no doubt his pu k playing ability is great. That doesn't mean they don't want Howard back, the guy is a rookie, he had one bad goal a couple weeks ago and everyone was ready to trade him for "x" player of the week. Now he has a few good games and we don't need our veteran top 10 goalie back? I'd rather reserve judgement till he has a season under his belt. He has no playoff experience, he's still quite young and I guarantee his playing style will bite him in the ads a few games during this stretch and everyone will want to trade him again.

Also mrazek has played 12 games, you can't say he's putting up top 10 numbers without mentioning that very small sample size. One 4-5 goal game and his stats will look bad, one shutout and he's better than rinne, that's what happens when you've played so few games this far into a season.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Yes mrazek is putting up good numbers, and no doubt his pu k playing ability is great. That doesn't mean they don't want Howard back, the guy is a rookie, he had one bad goal a couple weeks ago and everyone was ready to trade him for "x" player of the week. Now he has a few good games and we don't need our veteran top 10 goalie back? I'd rather reserve judgement till he has a season under his belt. He has no playoff experience, he's still quite young and I guarantee his playing style will bite him in the ads a few games during this stretch and everyone will want to trade him again.

Also mrazek has played 12 games, you can't say he's putting up top 10 numbers without mentioning that very small sample size. One 4-5 goal game and his stats will look bad, one shutout and he's better than rinne, that's what happens when you've played so few games this far into a season.

You mean he's had no "NHL" playoff experience.

[roboturner 562]

You understand that at some point in every single player's career they "had no playoff experience", right?

It's not like Howard has had great success in the postseason (not all his fault, but it is what it is)

Edit: Yeah he is a rookie and he is young, which mean's he's still got potential to improve and get more comfortable than he already is.

When exactly is he going to get a full season under his belt so you can make a judgement on him? In six years when he's 28 and we've missed out on some almost all of his prime years?

Edited January 18, 2015 by roboturner

[krsmith17 7,191]

I love Mrazek and I think he will eventually be better than Howard. However, at this point in their respective careers, Howard is their guy, and the team wants their number one back as soon as possible. To think otherwise is a tad ridiculous in my opinion. I did watch the postgame interview with Trevor Thompson that you are referring to and after commenting on the teams play of late, being reunited with Tatar and Nyquist, and his set-up on the Tatar goal where he was actually looking for "Pukey"... (Pulkkinen) back door before Tatar intercepted and batted in the pass for the goal, as well as his set-up on the first goal by "Nyquie"... (Nyquist) Here's exactly what was said talking about Mrazek...

Thompson: "And again another big game for Mrazek here tonight as he fills in for Jimmy Howard. This guy hasn't skipped a beat"

Sheahan: "He's amazing and I know all the guys like when he's in the net, plays the puck really well and breaks it out for us and then he's amazing in the net, so we definitely feel comfortable with him in there"

How you can translate that into the team not missing Howard... I don't know...

What did you expect him to say? "Yeah, Mrazek has played well, but we can't wait for Jimmy to get back"...

You're just trying too hard to put down Howard, and you're looking for someone, anyone, to jump on your "Howard Sucks Train". Howard has had an unbelievable year up until his recent injury, and assuming he can keep up his great play, when he returns in a few weeks, there is no reason to not want him manning the pipes as our number one.

Mrazek will be the full time back-up next season and I would not be surprised if he steals the number one job in a couple years from now, in the meantime enjoy the ride, we should be in great shape at the goalie position for the next 10+ years...

Edited January 18, 2015 by krsmith17

[roboturner 562]

haha I did hear him say "Pookie" and was so confused as to who he was referring to as "Nike". Thanks for the quote too

But no I'm not "trying too hard" to put Howard down and I don't really care if anybody else agrees with me.

I don't like Howard's style of play. That's literally my only beef with him.

So when we already have (don't have to trade for or draft and develop for years) a young goalie who can stop the puck as well as Howie has been this season, but who has a style of play that I think helps the team out in other areas (and incidentally is almost exactly like what I personally want to see in a goalie) then of course I'm going to want him to play more. That's literally it. If you have two great goalies,great! Play the one who gives the team the best chance to win!

"I know all the guys like when he's in the net..." seems pretty straightforward, They like playing with him. Doesn't mean they don't like playing with Howie.

"...plays the puck really well and breaks it out for us..." Is something they don't get from Howard and it really seems to help the guys out quite a bit, expand on why they like playing with him

"... and then he's amazing in net, so we definitely feel comfortable with him in there." Sounds like they know he can hold his own and they don't have to worry about having a rookie goalie in net, because he has the composure and plays like a veteran.

The team has won 3 straight without Howard so they aren't really missing him (the way Nashville is missing Rinne)

Edited January 18, 2015 by roboturner

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I agree mrazek is good. And yes every goalie starts with no "nhl" playoff experience. So if he rides shotgun, he can see how things go in the playoffs and maybe even get a game or two in. You have to ease them in or they will most likely fail and have their confidence shattered.

And no I expect him to get a full year of experience as a backup and maybe even split time with Jimmy then within a couple seasons take over the number one spot

[roboturner 562]

I agree mrazek is good. And yes every goalie starts with no "nhl" playoff experience. So if he rides shotgun, he can see how things go in the playoffs and maybe even get a game or two in. You have to ease them in or they will most likely fail and have their confidence shattered.

And no I expect him to get a full year of experience as a backup and maybe even split time with Jimmy then within a couple seasons take over the number one spot

Not really getting a whole lot of experience sitting on the bench for 70% of the games or observing playoff hockey from the second row (all those season ticket holders on the glass have sooo much playoff experience by now, suit em up!!). I agree that's probably what's going to happen.

Though I don't know if management has the balls to get rid of a known veteran commodity who has years left on a contract paying him like (5.5 mil?) a season, even if they have a better player ready to go.

Edited January 18, 2015 by roboturner

[Jesusberg 1,256]

It isn't Howard vs. Mrazek... not yet. Why would you ship out a competent starting goaltender for an unproven 22-year old? That's just awful judgement. There's ZERO goalie controversy right now between the two of them. If anything, the question is "do we keep Petr up and waive Gustavsson?", which I don't think they'll do.

Gustavsson is gone next season - Mrazek will be up with the team full-time. They likely split the season in the 50-60 for Howard, 20-30 range for Mrazek next year. The 2016 off-season, Mrazek gets paid like a back-up for (hopefully) 2-3 seasons. At that point, you start comparing the two guys. You've got two years left on Howard's deal at that point, and in that time frame, you find out who is your starter. You don't simply toss a rookie goaltender into the starting spot in this situation - Detroit's in a great position in goal right now. You let Mrazek earn the #1 spot over time... not over 4-5 games.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

It isn't Howard vs. Mrazek... not yet. Why would you ship out a competent starting goaltender for an unproven 22-year old? That's just awful judgement. There's ZERO goalie controversy right now between the two of them. If anything, the question is "do we keep Petr up and waive Gustavsson?", which I don't think they'll do.

Gustavsson is gone next season - Mrazek will be up with the team full-time. They likely split the season in the 50-60 for Howard, 20-30 range for Mrazek next year. The 2016 off-season, Mrazek gets paid like a back-up for (hopefully) 2-3 seasons. At that point, you start comparing the two guys. You've got two years left on Howard's deal at that point, and in that time frame, you find out who is your starter. You don't simply toss a rookie goaltender into the starting spot in this situation - Detroit's in a great position in goal right now. You let Mrazek earn the #1 spot over time... not over 4-5 games.

I agree. I wonder if we could trade the Monster. His injury woes would probably get in the way of that, but there has been some desperate teams and he's got last year's record to show teams.

[gcom007 1,465]

It isn't Howard vs. Mrazek... not yet. Why would you ship out a competent starting goaltender for an unproven 22-year old? That's just awful judgement. There's ZERO goalie controversy right now between the two of them. If anything, the question is "do we keep Petr up and waive Gustavsson?", which I don't think they'll do.

Gustavsson is gone next season - Mrazek will be up with the team full-time. They likely split the season in the 50-60 for Howard, 20-30 range for Mrazek next year. The 2016 off-season, Mrazek gets paid like a back-up for (hopefully) 2-3 seasons. At that point, you start comparing the two guys. You've got two years left on Howard's deal at that point, and in that time frame, you find out who is your starter. You don't simply toss a rookie goaltender into the starting spot in this situation - Detroit's in a great position in goal right now. You let Mrazek earn the #1 spot over time... not over 4-5 games.

It's a nice idea, but I don't know if it'll fly in the cap world given Howard's age and contract length. In the 2016 off-season, you've still got three years left on Howard's contract, not two.

For better or for worse, we know Babcock isn't afraid to go with the goalie that's winning, and if Mrazek comes up and outplays Howard, which he might be capable of, he's going to get a lot of starts. I do think he'll be given an opportunity to win a starting role next year in an A/B situation, and I don't think they'd let him go in the playoffs unless he's out of this world, it could end up being Howard's last chance to stay a Wing.

The way I see it, unless Howard wins a Cup in the next couple years, he's going to be trade bait after next season if Mrazek ends up looking ready to be an NHL starter next year. That doesn't mean I think they'll absolutely trade Howard in the 2016 off-season, but I think that'll be the point where he becomes a piece that's on the table. Ideally, you'd have him around the next year as well as insurance for Mrazek, but realistically, he's priced too high to be a backup in the cap world, and he's likely too old to wait to trade him until he only has a year or two left on his contract.

Mrazek may not have the NHL experience yet to make this an open and shut case, but Howard doesn't have the playoff experience to cement his status here either. I'd honestly love to see it happen, as I like Howard a lot and think he's capable and I think this team is capable of making a real stink this year or next. But if he can't do it and Mrazek continues to play strong when given the opportunity, it's really tough to justify keeping Howard at his cap hit when he's about the only player we have that has serious value on the trade market.

[gcom007 1,465]

I agree. I wonder if we could trade the Monster. His injury woes would probably get in the way of that, but there has been some desperate teams and he's got last year's record to show teams.

Highly unlikely given his injuries, and ultimately unnecessary. He's still a good backup when healthy, and once Howard's back, it's going to do Mrazek no favors to have him in a straight backup role, so they'll send him back down to GR to get more starts. If they want him as the backup in the playoffs, they'll have him.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

It's a nice idea, but I don't know if it'll fly in the cap world given Howard's age and contract length. In the 2016 off-season, you've still got three years left on Howard's contract, not two.

For better or for worse, we know Babcock isn't afraid to go with the goalie that's winning, and if Mrazek comes up and outplays Howard, which he might be capable of, he's going to get a lot of starts. I do think he'll be given an opportunity to win a starting role next year in an A/B situation, and I don't think they'd let him go in the playoffs unless he's out of this world, it could end up being Howard's last chance to stay a Wing.

The way I see it, unless Howard wins a Cup in the next couple years, he's going to be trade bait after next season if Mrazek ends up looking ready to be an NHL starter next year. That doesn't mean I think they'll absolutely trade Howard in the 2016 off-season, but I think that'll be the point where he becomes a piece that's on the table. Ideally, you'd have him around the next year as well as insurance for Mrazek, but realistically, he's priced too high to be a backup in the cap world, and he's likely too old to wait to trade him until he only has a year or two left on his contract.

Mrazek may not have the NHL experience yet to make this an open and shut case, but Howard doesn't have the playoff experience to cement his status here either. I'd honestly love to see it happen, as I like Howard a lot and think he's capable and I think this team is capable of making a real stink this year or next. But if he can't do it and Mrazek continues to play strong when given the opportunity, it's really tough to justify keeping Howard at his cap hit when he's about the only player we have that has serious value on the trade market.

Correct. I was using NHL Numbers, and they cut off at the at 16-17 season. My mistake.

Even with the extra year, I really don't see Howard being moved out, at least not until that very last season. Perhaps if they had a competent back-up in the system, or if there are issues with the cap coming back down. As it stands, I think they'd feel much safer letting Howard kind of mentor Mrazek into the role. I agree with Howard having trade value, but I can't see Holland moving him unless he gets a fantastic offer for him. I don't think Mrazek takes over as starter next year, which means he's getting back-up money on his next contract. Even if he's getting somewhere around 2 million per, you're paying around 7-7.5 million on goaltending, which is what a good chunk of teams are paying for the position.

IMO, It really only becomes an issue if Petr signs on for 2 years, then gets paid well going into the 17-18 season.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Jesusberg

[gcom007 1,465]

Correct. I was using NHL Numbers, and they cut off at the at 16-17 season. My mistake.

Even with the extra year, I really don't see Howard being moved out, at least not until that very last season. Perhaps if they had a competent back-up in the system, or if there are issues with the cap coming back down. As it stands, I think they'd feel much safer letting Howard kind of mentor Mrazek into the role. I agree with Howard having trade value, but I can't see Holland moving him unless he gets a fantastic offer for him. I don't think Mrazek takes over as starter next year, which means he's getting back-up money on his next contract. Even if he's getting somewhere around 2 million per, you're paying around 7-7.5 million on goaltending, which is what a good chunk of teams are paying for the position.

IMO, It really only becomes an issue if Petr signs on for 2 years, then gets paid well going into the 17-18 season.

That's also operating under the assumption that Howard will be okay taking a reduced role, which he might not be, and the Wings might feel more open to moving him just for the fact that he should be a starter somewhere.

But you bring up another interesting wrinkle about how and contracts will get structured. I wonder who Mrazek's agent is and if he's been known to play hardball in the past with other guys. You've got to imagine that he won't make it easy on the Wings. Mrazek and especially his agent, whoever that may be, are not going to be oblivious to his value. Two years at backup prices seems very reasonable on the next deal, but they'll want to clean up after that if he becomes the goalie a lot of people believe he will be.

And again, the whole reason I can't see them moving Howard in his last year or two even is the age thing, unless he attains some serious playoff credentials by then. I just don't know if any teams are going to want to trade for a 34-35 year old goalie with a $5.3 million cap hit who hasn't even made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs. That's why I think he either has a lot of playoff success here in this year or next, or he gets moved. It gets a lot harder to trade him the longer it goes on, and even if his deal doesn't spell cap doom immediately, there could be enough factors at play to make a trade make sense sometime after next season that I think it's likely to happen.

[evilmrt 636]

This is really only a difficult question when it comes to playoff time....I would certainly forego putting in Monster if Howie can't handle things. On the other hand, if the Griffs make the playoffs, what do you do?

Until then, lets just enjoy having a great future goaltender in Mrazek.

[Mckinley25 677]

This is really only a difficult question when it comes to playoff time....I would certainly forego putting in Monster if Howie can't handle things. On the other hand, if the Griffs make the playoffs, what do you do?

Until then, lets just enjoy having a great future goaltender in Mrazek.

I'd rather Mrazek in the playoffs. That said, and ignoring the fact Monster has the durability of a toothpick, he's a perfect backup for solid starting goalie who plays every game besides back to backs.

[UpstateNYRedWingsFan 42]

Mrazek is a child in goalie years still

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Highly unlikely given his injuries, and ultimately unnecessary. He's still a good backup when healthy, and once Howard's back, it's going to do Mrazek no favors to have him in a straight backup role, so they'll send him back down to GR to get more starts. If they want him as the backup in the playoffs, they'll have him.

Agreed, but my thinking was that, since we're trying to get a defensive upgrade, every expendible piece should be thought of as possibly part of a trade package.

I think Monster, Kindl, Andersson, Cleary, Lashoff and one of Ericsson/Quincey (Maybe Weiss - like him, but he hasn't found a place - due in a large part to Babacock, but... Also, I'd like to keep Sheahan and Helm) could be shed without much hit to the team as PART of a package for getting a defenceman. Problem is that most don't have value.

There's some teams need goal tending help, but you're right Monster's injuries negate his value.

Edited January 18, 2015 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Agreed, but my thinking was that, since we're trying to get a defensive upgrade, every expendible piece should be thought of as possibly part of a trade package.

I think Monster, Kindl, Andersson, Cleary, Lashoff and one of Ericsson/Quincey (Maybe Weiss - like him, but he hasn't found a place - due in a large part to Babacock, but... Also, I'd like to keep Sheahan and Helm) could be shed without much hit to the team as PART of a package for getting a defenceman. Problem is that most don't have value.

There's some teams need goal tending help, but you're right Monster's injuries negate his value.

Honestly, I don't think there's much of a market for Gustavsson. The teams I can think of who might need a back-up would be:

Dallas (Maybe, but I think they have too many goaltenders in their system as it is - Lindback, Rynnas, Campbell. Also, I think it depends on how they view themselves in terms of contending for a playoff spot. I'm not sure they move any assets for a goalie. I just know their back-ups have struggled)

Nashville (Could be a possibility with Rinne out. Not sure Hutton and Mazanec cut it.)

New York Islanders (Another possibility. Johnson has looked awful in relief, to the point where they're playing Halak in back-to-back games).

There are a couple other teams like Tampa and Washington, but I think they would turn to Vasilevsky and Grubauer before moving assets for a back-up. There are also other teams like Arizona and Columbus who could use a better back-up, but neither team is going to make any noise this season. Also, I really think teams might take a shot on Brodeur before Gustavsson. Just my take on it.