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frankgrimes

Pittsburgh/Philly might be the best rivalry in the game now

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I love watching that rivalry that's hockey should be: pure hatred, fights, bone crushing hits, crowd going wild and coaches getting fired up. Farnham landed a serious right on that guy. But man Rinaldos hit was dirty

That being said I think other rivalries sadly have died down a lot obviously Detroit - Chicago used to be good but it lacks that level of animosity even Bruins - Habs aren't close. So by today standards I think its fair to assume that this is the best rivalry in the game and I would love seeing both meeting in the playoffs but man Flyers need to get on a serious streak if they want to make it.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Agreed. I think the destruction of rivalries is one of the saddest things about the "new" NHL. They can label every match on Wednesday "rivalry night" but that doesn't make it a rivalry. Even Chicago-Detroit wasn't all that great. There was no hatred. Just healthy competition which is still cool and all but never super exciting.

Maybe parity has something to do with it. When (almost) every team is decent and competitive, and everyone gets bent out of shape at every legal hit, it makes the climate harder to encourage real rivalries. Your game against Toronto is probably just as important as your game against LA, for example, because everyone needs to scrap for every two points.

I also don't think playing a team a bunch of times a year is conducive to creating rivalries, either. It can work, but it's not a necessity. It makes each game less important because if you don't make a statement in your third game against that team, you'll have a few more chances.

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I love watching that rivalry that's hockey should be: pure hatred, fights, bone crushing hits, crowd going wild and coaches getting fired up. Farnham landed a serious right on that guy. But man Rinaldos hit was dirty

That being said I think other rivalries sadly have died down a lot obviously Detroit - Chicago used to be good but it lacks that level of animosity even Bruins - Habs aren't close. So by today standards I think its fair to assume that this is the best rivalry in the game and I would love seeing both meeting in the playoffs but man Flyers need to get on a serious streak if they want to make it.

Did they play any hockey tho?

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Agreed. I think the destruction of rivalries is one of the saddest things about the "new" NHL. They can label every match on Wednesday "rivalry night" but that doesn't make it a rivalry. Even Chicago-Detroit wasn't all that great. There was no hatred. Just healthy competition which is still cool and all but never super exciting.

Maybe parity has something to do with it. When (almost) every team is decent and competitive, and everyone gets bent out of shape at every legal hit, it makes the climate harder to encourage real rivalries. Your game against Toronto is probably just as important as your game against LA, for example, because everyone needs to scrap for every two points.

I also don't think playing a team a bunch of times a year is conducive to creating rivalries, either. It can work, but it's not a necessity. It makes each game less important because if you don't make a statement in your third game against that team, you'll have a few more chances.

I*'m on board with that the new NHL has brought so many bad things but the destruction of rivalries is for sure very high on the list of crap. Wednesday "rivalry night" is such a big joke it's like the league doesn't even know and or care what a rivalry really means. Well at least they can just rewatch the game and get a healthy dose of reality.

I don't think that forced parity has something to do with it it's just that teams - who used to be huge rivals - aren't playing each other enough in meaningful games so it's hard to develop anger and hatred. The Detroit - Toronto rivalry is as good as done, same goes for Detroit - Colorado :( Chicago - Detroit was al so pretty meh in terms of excitment.

I think as far as animosity goes, the Ducks and the Sharks were both bigger rivals than the Blackhawks.

Agreed about the Ducks the games were fun, hard fought but I would have loved seeing us lay down the hammer more on them. I used to think Detroit - Pittsburgh could develop into one but after the last meeting in the finals the games are very mehish

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Agreed. I think the destruction of rivalries is one of the saddest things about the "new" NHL. They can label every match on Wednesday "rivalry night" but that doesn't make it a rivalry. Even Chicago-Detroit wasn't all that great. There was no hatred. Just healthy competition which is still cool and all but never super exciting.

Maybe parity has something to do with it. When (almost) every team is decent and competitive, and everyone gets bent out of shape at every legal hit, it makes the climate harder to encourage real rivalries. Your game against Toronto is probably just as important as your game against LA, for example, because everyone needs to scrap for every two points.

I also don't think playing a team a bunch of times a year is conducive to creating rivalries, either. It can work, but it's not a necessity. It makes each game less important because if you don't make a statement in your third game against that team, you'll have a few more chances.

I've been watching fewer non-Wings games the past few seasons due to the deterioration of rivalries. The competition level is very high, but the hatred level is low.

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I've been watching fewer non-Wings games the past few seasons due to the deterioration of rivalries. The competition level is very high, but the hatred level is low.

and sadly that's also when excitement comes down more than a few inches :(

I've used to re-watch a lot of games but especially this year most a boring as hell save for the game yesterday obviously.

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I actually read something on Twitter today or last night (from a media guy) that said something like "I don't think there is really much hatred there like there used to be, but I think the guys feel like they still have to entertain" - referring to the craziness of the PIT v PHI game. I think there is some truth to that, but I'm also pretty sure most of the Pens hate Rinaldo. I tend to try and watch a lot of PIT v PHI games as a lot of them are crazy, but I'll be honest in saying that I wasn't a big fan of last night's game. It was crazy and intense, but there was a lot of dirtiness and thuggery, which I'm not a fan of. I'd much prefer a real intense, physical game, but clean.

The games I've seen between these 2, Philly does come off as thugs and just trying to goon it up, but I don't really see them play against a lot of other opponents.....wonder if they play like that all the time. It is in their history, but I'd be willing to bet that it only comes out against PIT these days. Again, other than Rinaldo, who I assume is an idiot 100% of the time.

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Rivalries happen for a lot of reasons, and they can't be manufactured. That's why they wax and wane. Anybody want to tell me there wasn't a good, healthy, rivalry with Pittsburgh for a couple years after 2008 and 2009? And watch out if Boston and Montreal meet again in the playoffs after Lucic was a ****** and Subban made the Bruins look like assholes. Rivalries can't really be forced, and only relate to history or geography tangentially. Wanna know why the Detroit/Chicago rivalry died? Because Chicago was horrible for 30 years, and once they got good we weren't great. However, let two powerhouse teams meet each other a couple years in a row (with something on the line) and you'll have a pretty good rivalry for a while. Remember Chicago and Vancouver a few years ago. Those games were intense because they were both good and the stakes were high.

Edited by kipwinger

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I actually read something on Twitter today or last night (from a media guy) that said something like "I don't think there is really much hatred there like there used to be, but I think the guys feel like they still have to entertain" - referring to the craziness of the PIT v PHI game. I think there is some truth to that, but I'm also pretty sure most of the Pens hate Rinaldo. I tend to try and watch a lot of PIT v PHI games as a lot of them are crazy, but I'll be honest in saying that I wasn't a big fan of last night's game. It was crazy and intense, but there was a lot of dirtiness and thuggery, which I'm not a fan of. I'd much prefer a real intense, physical game, but clean.

The games I've seen between these 2, Philly does come off as thugs and just trying to goon it up, but I don't really see them play against a lot of other opponents.....wonder if they play like that all the time. It is in their history, but I'd be willing to bet that it only comes out against PIT these days. Again, other than Rinaldo, who I assume is an idiot 100% of the time.

Was ist Bob McKenzie ? Rinaldo is in the same ballpark as Carcillo, Cooke and Torres...

back to topic if they think their job is to entertain well they've done a marvelous job yesterday that game was entertaining as hell if more games were like that, the NHL would have a great "product". The only better game in recent years has been that famous Pens - Isles on 11 - 2 - 11 game. Well the Flyers were playing like a team that has nothing to lose against their hatred enemy I mean whats the worst outcome ? They lose the game and get closer to McEichel did they go overboard ? Rinaldo of course did but the Flyers didn't even call up Rosehill so it was hardly thuggery in my mind.

According to their fans the Flayers aren't playing like that most of the time so their must be something that really gets them going against the Pens and as a fan it's entertaining as hell to watch god I hope they'll meet in the playoffs.

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Rivalries are an interesting one. I think the decline right now has a little something to do with the league trying to stamp out fighting (albeit very subtly), the speed of the game increasing, and things like the instigator penalty haven't helped.

How many times have we seen players from any team about to fight, only for the refs to instantly break it up. The one I remember distinctly from this season was Iginla earlier in the year. Players are about to drop the gloves, are talking, and where years ago the refs would let them jaw and then get on with it, now they almost instantly step in.

Now, I'm not saying that rivalries are born out of fighting. But you can just see the league slowly edging out the culture of fighting. Every rivalry needs someone to doll out some punishment and then a certain level of retribution to be enacted. Whether that be one team beating the other in the Finals (ala Wings/penguins), or someone to get smashed unfairly and then that guy gets served.

If you ask me, the key thing for a rivalry to develop is multiple playoff meetings. Now that we're no longer in the same conference its difficult, but for a few years you could see the Wings/Ducks games starting to look a little something like this. Both teams were powerhouses. Both had beaten each other in the playoffs. Star players got involved (see Perry/Datsyuk fight).

What does everyone think? Does a rivalry require every team to have guys who can fight? Or can it just be based on non-fighting physicality and the teams simply trying to beat each other?

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Another reason for less rivalries is simply less familiarity. You really don't have to go back that far to find the league with only 21 teams....they played each other a lot more then. Also, playoffs were set up where you'd need to get out of your division first. There are other reasons, as mentioned, but this plays a big role as well.

Edit....on the PIT v PHI thing, I've always heard the "Battle of Pennsylvania" thing but I don't think it has anything to do with geography....which I didn't really have a great appreciation of until last year. I drove down to Pittsburgh from Toronto with the wife last year (as her friends suggested she get out the shopping....no tax and all). Anyway, Pittsburgh is actually closer to Toronto than it is to Philly, or at a minimum, very similar. For that matter, Detroit and Columbus are probably the closest teams to Pittsburgh.

Edited by toby91_ca

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Great points I think a real rivalry needs hardnosed players and sure guys willing to fight. If both are ready any willing to go and the refs try to get in...well than it's their own fault if they catch some bombs.

This league is in the hands I'd the wrong people, a new York based lawyer who has no athletic skills and some owners who feed of of the money from teams like the Wings, Leafs...

Less teams would mean playing other teams more often and hopefully developing hatred. Ducks Wings had potential but the real alignment and the decline of the wings killed that. Pens Wings also had potential but that final also saw the beginning of an incredible soft wings roster and two teams trending in different directions.

Another sad example is Leafs Senators wtf happened to them ? No fights not even hard hits

Right now I'm really having a hard time thinking about the second best rivalry because Pittsburgh versus Philly is head and shoulders above all others. Maybe Bruins versus Habs if Lucic finally decides to play like he did when he broke into the league but other than that a lot of died down rivalries. Which kills a lot of entertainment and makes the sport boring to watch.

A rivalry should mean 60 minutes of battle tested war and the highest possible amount of animosity and hatred plus willingness to destroy the other team and sadly only 1 game annually delivers

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There are all sorts of rivalries, in all sorts of sports, most of which don't have fighting. Why would it be necessary in this case?

No one said it was necessary, it's been part of the game for a long time, and for me, it's exciting to watch. I, for one, would hate to see it go by the wayside.

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I know the Canadian teams don't get as much play here in the US but what about Edmonton/Calgary or Toronto/Ottawa?

If you're going Canadian, Habs-Leafs is the only rivalry you need to talk about. Not as heated as it's been, but deeply engrained and is always something worth watching. I mean the rivalry is on our 5 dollar bill...

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It will always be a great rivalry, and Flyers fans will always hate Crosby more than Hitler.

That being said, the Flyers no longer having Hartnell, Briere and Timmonen, and the removal of Max Talbot from both sides softens it a bit, IMO. I don't think there will ever be a more entertaining series than Flyers/Pens 2012.

Edited by Hockeytown0001

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It will always be a great rivalry, and Flyers fans will always hate Crosby more than Hitler.

That being said, the Flyers no longer having Hartnell, Briere and Timmonen, and the removal of Max Talbot from both sides softens it a bit, IMO. I don't think there will ever be a more entertaining series than Flyers/Pens 2012.

Only Vancouver - Calgary had that potential but two main factors of that are gone 1.) Torts and 2.) McGrattan

Yeah, Pittsburgh - Philadelphikia 2012 was one heck of a series god did I love every minute of it, the only more entertaining game has been Isles - Pens on the 11 of february 11 Haley going bonkers

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