Give Patrick Hersley a shot?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Is the question, "name players who have played in North America, gone back to Europe, and then returned to North America to have some success?"

Jori Lehtera?

Jiri Hudler?

Mark Streit?

Leo Komarov?

Brian Rafalski?

Isn't that more the exception, rather than the rule? And not to nitpick, but does Hudler really apply to this situatuion? He chose to go over because of issues with his contract negotiations - it wasn't an issue with breaking into the NHL.

Thinking about players who came over, then never returned... just in Detroit's system alone:

Dick Axelsson

Daniel Larsson

Johan Ryno

Mattias Backman (Possibly?)

Not saying it's not possible, but I'd imagine that if Hersley were to come over, he'd be going to a team where he would have a better chance of getting into the line-up. It's not every player's dream to play in the NHL.

Which leads me to ask (Ekmanc), has he shown any indication that he even wants to come to the NHL? Just wondering if this is a "he's got solid stats overseas, he should come over" or "he's considering coming over next season, we should try to sign him"?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jesusberg

[Ekmanc 586]

I have no idea what he wants but for most Swedes playing in the NHL is the big childhood dream, no one dreams of the KHL and the money isn't that good now after the rubel collapsed.

It's mostly a case of me thinking that this is exactly the type of player we need and are sorely lacking in our lineup right now and a type of player that is also almost impossible to acquire through a trade. That is if he can perform on this level as well but I think at least offensively and on the powerplay he probably could. He's been playing a bit for the Swedish national team too and he's performed very well at that level as well.

Edit: just saw an interview with him where he said he would much rather play in the NHL if given the opportunity but that he knows that it's difficult as most teams only have 2 offensive d-men.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ekmanc

[kipwinger 8,495]

Isn't that more the exception, rather than the rule? And not to nitpick, but does Hudler really apply to this situatuion? He chose to go over because of issues with his contract negotiations - it wasn't an issue with breaking into the NHL.

Thinking about players who came over, then never returned... just in Detroit's system alone:

Dick Axelsson

Daniel Larsson

Johan Ryno

Mattias Backman (Possibly?)

Not saying it's not possible, but I'd imagine that if Hersley were to come over, he'd be going to a team where he would have a better chance of getting into the line-up. It's not every player's dream to play in the NHL.

Which leads me to ask (Ekmanc), has he shown any indication that he even wants to come to the NHL? Just wondering if this is a "he's got solid stats overseas, he should come over" or "he's considering coming over next season, we should try to sign him"?

Totally. Chances are, even if you gave the kid a chance, he'd never make it. I was mostly just trying to see if I could find any.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I have no idea what he wants but for most Swedes playing in the NHL is the big childhood dream, no one dreams of the KHL and the money isn't that good now after the rubel collapsed.

It's mostly a case of me thinking that this is exactly the type of player we need and are sorely lacking in our lineup right now and a type of player that is also almost impossible to acquire through a trade. That is if he can perform on this level as well but I think at least offensively and on the powerplay he probably could. He's been playing a bit for the Swedish national team too and he's performed very well at that level as well.

Edit: just saw an interview with him where he said he would much rather play in the NHL if given the opportunity but that he knows that it's difficult as most teams only have 2 offensive d-men.

Fair enough. I understand and appreciate the idea of picking up an asset for free - just not sure it works here right now. If Detroit was in a position to take a look at him, I would be receptive for sure. The reality is that this team has eight NHL-level defenders. The hope (at least mine) is that they can move Kindl for Ouellet.

While we don't have that PP guy right now, I believe we have him in either Sproul or Jensen. One of those two is most likely going to be up for the 2016-17 season. So really, Hersley would have a one-year window to prove that he's better than what we already have. I just think it's highly unlikely that he'd find a fit here. It would definitely be a Holland move to check him out, if this team's situation was a little different.

I think there are quite a few other teams who might be able to take a look at him. Perhaps a team like Chicago could take a look at him, or maybe (with the loss of Voynov) Los Angeles. Just can't imagine him finding a spot in Detroit.

[Ekmanc 586]

Do you really think Sproul or Jensen can fill that part? none of them seems to be putting up points at all so far at the pro level.

I do agree that we have a bit of a log jam on defense right now and he probably won't get a shot here but I don't think we have a good powerplay dman in our system and I really wish we did.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ekmanc

[Buppy 1,720]

Do you really think Sproul or Jensen can fill that part? none of them seems to be putting up points at all so far at the pro level.

I do agree that we have a bit of a log jam on defense right now and he probably won't get a shot here but I don't think we have a good powerplay dman in our system and I really wish we did.

Sproul has 16g and 49p in 122 AHL games. At the same age, Hersley had 1g and 9p in 47 games. When he want back to Sweden he immediately began scoring at a rate similar to what he's doing now. I don't see any reason to think Sproul is any less promising. Maybe not quite as developed or well-rounded yet, hard to say since the situations are so different, but easily as much potential.

[Ekmanc 586]

True Sproul is young and he also has a cannon of a shot, he could definitely develop into a more reliable scorer.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I have no idea what he wants but for most Swedes playing in the NHL is the big childhood dream, no one dreams of the KHL and the money isn't that good now after the rubel collapsed.

It's mostly a case of me thinking that this is exactly the type of player we need and are sorely lacking in our lineup right now and a type of player that is also almost impossible to acquire through a trade. That is if he can perform on this level as well but I think at least offensively and on the powerplay he probably could. He's been playing a bit for the Swedish national team too and he's performed very well at that level as well.

Edit: just saw an interview with him where he said he would much rather play in the NHL if given the opportunity but that he knows that it's difficult as most teams only have 2 offensive d-men.

I could be wrong, but aren't most these contracts paid in us currency?

I remember when the topic of the khl struggling first got brought up and kovalchuck came up and someone said they're getting dollars, not rubels.

Edited January 26, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[nawein 324]

I could be wrong, but aren't most these contracts paid in us currency?

I remember when the topic of the khl struggling first got brought up and kovalchuck came up and someone said they're getting dollars, not rubels.

Teams still make rubels, and with the economy over there, teams aren't making that many rubels. No rubels, no dollars.

[Ekmanc 586]

I could be wrong, but aren't most these contracts paid in us currency?

I remember when the topic of the khl struggling first got brought up and kovalchuck came up and someone said they're getting dollars, not rubels.

I don't think so for most players? I've heard a lot of Swedish players complain a little recently that the value of their contracts just got cut in half.

Maybe it's just for superstars like Kovy that can demand insurance in form of being paid in usd.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ekmanc

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Well I don't know anything about that guy - read his name for the first time here - so thank you Ekmanc for the information. If he doesn't cost anything other than € I'm all for trying it if it doesn't work send him down to the AHL.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Do you really think Sproul or Jensen can fill that part? none of them seems to be putting up points at all so far at the pro level.

I do agree that we have a bit of a log jam on defense right now and he probably won't get a shot here but I don't think we have a good powerplay dman in our system and I really wish we did.

Are you really suggesting that Sproul is a bust after a year and a half in the AHL? That's what it sounds like.

[Ekmanc 586]

Are you really suggesting that Sproul is a bust after a year and a half in the AHL? That's what it sounds like.

No I'm certainly not saying that he is a bust or that he can't be an effective d-man. I am saying that I am not overly impressed by his point production so far and of course he could improve that as well but so far I don't see him as an excellent pp qb.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He's still young and is probably focusing on learning to play defense instead of just scoring. His points are fine for an young D anyway.

[sibiriak 84]

St Louis started playing NHL hockey in his mid 20's, long before Hersley at 28. He also grew to become an all star hart winning player. Something Hersley will never be.

AGAIN I'm asking you for a hersley example? Lemme guess, you don't have one?

I don't want to ruin a perfectly good argument, but ... Rafalski ...

[Ekmanc 586]

I don't want to ruin a perfectly good argument, but ... Rafalski ...

Was 27 when he got his start in the NHL and played a stint in Europe, the horror

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't get why it's so hard to grasp the fact that every player develops at different rates. Some hone their skills at a very young age, others take a little longer to develop. Their are a lot of cases over the years where players didn't play their first game in the NHL until their late 20's, even into their mid to late 30's, believe it or not. number9, you pointed out that St. Louis didn't start his career until his mid 20's, and yet as an undersized player that was always told he was too small to make the NHL, he went on to be an All-Star, Hart winning player, who in all likelihood will be inducted into the Hockey Hall Of Fame. Is it really that hard to believe that a player who is 28 years old, has good size, is one of the top defenders in arguably the second best league in hockey, can be a serviceable player at the NHL level? I don't think anyone including Ekmanc was saying that he is going to come over and put up ridiculous numbers, making Wings fans say "Lidstrom who?", but it is possible he could become a decent 3rd pairing, power-play specialist.

In saying all that, I wouldn't mind giving him an invite to training camp this summer, but I wouldn't just hand him a contract based on his numbers over in Europe (KHL / SHL). We have a few talented guys that should make their way onto the big club in the next couple years, so I don't really see a fit, but it never hurts to give the guy a look.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

If he's willing to come down on a 2way contract and we see what happens next training camp then why not? Costs us nothing and I'd rather have him in the ahl with a small chance at cracking the wings lineup than some 34 yr old career ahler

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree with offering him a two-way contract in the off-season to replace Brennan Evans or Scott Czarnowczan, but not if it's to replace Nathan Paetsch. His leadership and calming presence on and off the ice is insurmountable. Some of these "34 year old career AHLers" are irreplaceable, when it comes to aiding in the development of the kids.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't get why it's so hard to grasp the fact that every player develops at different rates. Some hone their skills at a very young age, others take a little longer to develop. Their are a lot of cases over the years where players didn't play their first game in the NHL until their late 20's, even into their mid to late 30's, believe it or not. number9, you pointed out that St. Louis didn't start his career until his mid 20's, and yet as an undersized player that was always told he was too small to make the NHL, he went on to be an All-Star, Hart winning player, who in all likelihood will be inducted into the Hockey Hall Of Fame. Is it really that hard to believe that a player who is 28 years old, has good size, is one of the top defenders in arguably the second best league in hockey, can be a serviceable player at the NHL level? I don't think anyone including Ekmanc was saying that he is going to come over and put up ridiculous numbers, making Wings fans say "Lidstrom who?", but it is possible he could become a decent 3rd pairing, power-play specialist.

In saying all that, I wouldn't mind giving him an invite to training camp this summer, but I wouldn't just hand him a contract based on his numbers over in Europe (KHL / SHL). We have a few talented guys that should make their way onto the big club in the next couple years, so I don't really see a fit, but it never hurts to give the guy a look.

The problem is, they don't want to be "servicable" players in the NHL. They're used to being high end players in the European leagues, and when they get here and end up playing in the bottom half of the roster, they can't adjust. A very few people come in and are more than that, but the few examples are North American born guys whose main goal is to play in the NHL. Europeans want to play hockey, and the ones who don't come to the NHL at an early age are the ones who'd rather be top players in Europe than role players in the NHL.

St. Louis never played in Europe. He spent 3 years in the minors here.

Rafalski wasn't given a shot because of his size.

Hasek's was stuck behind Belfour until he was traded to Buffalo.

None of those guys are the same situation as Hersley.

[krsmith17 7,191]

What is this fixation in pointing out that so and so didn't play in Europe so it's not the same situation?... The point is that every player develops at a different pace, some much later than others. To go along with the generalization that you're using in saying that he won't make it because so and so didn't make it taking the same route, you're now saying that European's in general don't want to play third pairing minutes in the NHL, and that they would rather be the go to guy in Europe?... Come on man, that's ridiculous. Who's to say that it wasn't Patrik Hersley's lifelong goal to one day play in the NHL? I'm not saying it was, but for you to say it wasn't, is way off base.

You're reaching here, and for what? Again, no one here is saying "We Need To Sign This Guy", "He Is For Sure The Real Deal". People (myself anyway) are just saying that it wouldn't be the worst idea to give him a look in the offseason. Really, what's the harm in inviting him to training camp and if he impresses, and he's willing, signing him to a two-way contract? None...