2015 Draft

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No

Maybe just a tiny bit?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Maybe just a tiny bit?

No

Svechnikov is not good. At most he is a Riley Sheahan. AKA completely replaceable. And Sheahan at least plays responsible center defense. Name one thing impressive about Evgenys game... you cant bc he doesnt do anything exceptionally well. Hes average AF. And off the puck hes not fast, postionally sound, or gritty. He screams trade ASAP b4 other teams figure this out.

Remember golden boy Mrazek? Everyone fought me tooth n nail, but the golden boy was in the end a failure. Sechnikov is the same story... but Im a patient man. Ill wait and tell you "ha ha told ya so" when the time comes... just dont be surprisedin 2 years when it happens

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No

Svechnikov is not good. At most he is a Riley Sheahan. AKA completely replaceable. And Sheahan at least plays responsible center defense. Name one thing impressive about Evgenys game... you cant bc he doesnt do anything exceptionally well. Hes average AF. And off the puck hes not fast, postionally sound, or gritty. He screams trade ASAP b4 other teams figure this out.

Remember golden boy Mrazek? Everyone fought me tooth n nail, but the golden boy was in the end a failure. Sechnikov is the same story... but Im a patient man. Ill wait and tell you "ha ha told ya so" when the time comes... just dont be surprisedin 2 years when it happens

The thing is, no one is saying Svechnikov is awesome or irreplaceable or anything close to that. Most see him as a middle six winger, which is probably where he'll end up. Are middle six wingers replaceable? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should trade every future middle six winger in the system. I'd trade him, but not just to get rid of him. If he can be packaged with another piece to fill an area of need (defense), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'll give you credit for calling some of the past duds, like Smith, Jurco and Mrazek, but let's hope Svechnikov doesn't follow the same path... All three of those guys had the raw skill, but couldn't keep their head on straight for one reason or another (not getting into that again). The difference with Svechnikov is that he has the raw skill, the hockey IQ, and desire to get better every day. He's a big body that moves well, isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas, has soft hands and a quick release. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Jurco. So again, hopefully he can break through and actually become what most of us expected from Jurco, a solid middle six winger...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The thing is, no one is saying Svechnikov is awesome or irreplaceable or anything close to that. Most see him as a middle six winger, which is probably where he'll end up. Are middle six wingers replaceable? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should trade every future middle six winger in the system. I'd trade him, but not just to get rid of him. If he can be packaged with another piece to fill an area of need (defense), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'll give you credit for calling some of the past duds, like Smith, Jurco and Mrazek, but let's hope Svechnikov doesn't follow the same path... All three of those guys had the raw skill, but couldn't keep their head on straight for one reason or another (not getting into that again). The difference with Svechnikov is that he has the raw skill, the hockey IQ, and desire to get better every day. He's a big body that moves well, isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas, has soft hands and a quick release. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Jurco. So again, hopefully he can break through and actually become what most of us expected from Jurco, a solid middle six winger...

I just think he'd be overvalued around the league right now. Carolina might want him to pair with his brother... maybe hes the piece that nets us Faulk or something?

[krsmith17 7,191]

41 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I just think he'd be overvalued around the league right now. Carolina might want him to pair with his brother... maybe hes the piece that nets us Faulk or something?

Exactly what I've been saying... I'd trade him in a package for almost any of their defensemen.

[Buppy 1,720]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I just think he'd be overvalued around the league right now. Carolina might want him to pair with his brother... maybe hes the piece that nets us Faulk or something?

Train wreck of an AHL season and did next to nothing in his stint with the Wings. What could possibly make you think "he'd be overvalued around the league right now"? I'd expect the exact opposite if anything. Even if there is something there to see that would lead you to the conclusion that he won't be any good, I'm sure all the scouts around the league have seen it as well. They've probably seen more of him than you have.

[kipwinger 8,522]

For what it's worth, here's a view of Svechnikov from a scout that writes for The Athletic:

"

Evgeny Svechnikov

As a first-round pick in 2015, Svechnikov is going to be looked upon to be a big piece of Detroit’s future. At first glance on video, he’s one of those guys that as a scout you say:

“He looks like a hockey player, he smells like a hockey player but is he a hockey player?”

All the tools are there. He’s big, he can skate, he has skill and can handle a puck really well. While watching him skate up and down the ice, it certainly looks like he belongs.

But looking at the stats and doing some research, it sounds like the kid is having a tougher transition this year. As a 21-year-old, that can happen. Lately, he has looked more and more comfortable in a Red Wings uniform the more games he has played with the big club. He had his best game against the Philadelphia Flyers and was rewarded with a goal.

His biggest strength is in his puck protection. As a big body, he does a really good job using his size to protect the puck from defenders. He made some nice plays in the corners bringing pucks to the net, and by playing a big-man’s game he scored his first career goal by getting to the net. Check out the clips below:

 

I saw some little things that he does well too, details of the game that coaches love from their players. A lot of times, it takes young players a really long time to buy in to these little details (see: Andreas Athanasiou), but they are a huge part to winning games. In the clips below, you’ll see Svechnikov getting pucks out, getting pucks in, making good decisions at the bluelines, good defensive positioning (and nice skill hitting the puck out of mid-air) and finally sacrificing his body to block a shot:

 

I’d love to see more of Svechnikov. If this is a guy that you are planning to have as a big part of your future, the Red Wings should play him more and play him with better players. He has yet to hit 10 minutes of ice time in a game or have more than 15 shifts. He has been playing with Luke Glendening and Marty Frk. I’d love to see him on the wing with Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha, instead of Darren Helm … or with Henrik Zetterberg and Gustav Nyquist instead of Tyler Bertuzzi.

I understand that you have to earn it, as coach Jeff Blashill has pointed out after games. That’s the Red Wings' mantra. But with two weeks now left in the season, let’s see what the kid can do in an elevated role."

[krsmith17 7,191]

51 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I’d love to see more of Svechnikov. If this is a guy that you are planning to have as a big part of your future, the Red Wings should play him more and play him with better players. He has yet to hit 10 minutes of ice time in a game or have more than 15 shifts. He has been playing with Luke Glendening and Marty Frk. I’d love to see him on the wing with Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha, instead of Darren Helm.

This, so much.

Give the kid an opportunity with skilled players to see what he can do.

Some people won't admit that this organization has in the past, mismanged players. They have, and if they're not careful, Svechnikov will be the next to go by the wayside...

[kipwinger 8,522]

Well, that's tricky right ? If I'm reading this guy's message clearly he thinks Svechnikov is playing a responsible game already, doing all the little things right, and therefore he deserves more ice time.  I think that's a little different than Jurco or Pulkkinen, for instance, in that they didn't seem to be doing all those little things.  And I tend to agree with him, a young guy who's playing the game the right way will rocket up the depth chart in Detroit (see Bertuzzi and Larkin), guys who are doing it part of the time will get part time minutes (see Mantha and AA), and guys who never learn to do it won't play.  That's probably the way it should be.

Edited May 19, 2018 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 5/18/2018 at 4:58 PM, Buppy said:

Train wreck of an AHL season and did next to nothing in his stint with the Wings. What could possibly make you think "he'd be overvalued around the league right now"? I'd expect the exact opposite if anything. Even if there is something there to see that would lead you to the conclusion that he won't be any good, I'm sure all the scouts around the league have seen it as well. They've probably seen more of him than you have.

Because hes a 21 year old former first rounder. The longer we hold on to him while the suck continues, the more value he loses. Pretty basic stuff. If we want to get the most value for him we should act now.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because hes a 21 year old former first rounder. The longer we hold on to him while the suck continues, the more value he loses. Pretty basic stuff. If we want to get the most value for him we should act now.

You'll enjoy this then:

https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2018/5/19/17364276/noah-hanifin-andrei-svechnikov-and-the-red-wings-flagging-down-canes-country-for-some-trade-talk

The big deal

In talking about what makes sense, Brian did bring up that there is a bit of smoke around Noah Hanifin. The 5th overall pick in that same 2015 draft in which the Red Wings took Svechnikov. While obviously you’re not getting that one-for-one, but in including Andreas Athanasiou, it seems we struck a balance that was the right kind of uncomfortable for both sides. Detroit would be giving up two wingers who add scoring from a team that needs a lot more scoring while Carolina would be pulling the plug on an all-star defenseman to take a gamble on an unproven guy and an electrifying-but-inconsistent youngster.

To be perfectly honest, this is probably a deal that requires Detroit to throw in slightly more value, but there’s a decent chance that the extra intangible value of the Svechnikov brother connection doesn’t boot this off the table from the get-go.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

20 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You'll enjoy this then:

https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2018/5/19/17364276/noah-hanifin-andrei-svechnikov-and-the-red-wings-flagging-down-canes-country-for-some-trade-talk

The big deal

In talking about what makes sense, Brian did bring up that there is a bit of smoke around Noah Hanifin. The 5th overall pick in that same 2015 draft in which the Red Wings took Svechnikov. While obviously you’re not getting that one-for-one, but in including Andreas Athanasiou, it seems we struck a balance that was the right kind of uncomfortable for both sides. Detroit would be giving up two wingers who add scoring from a team that needs a lot more scoring while Carolina would be pulling the plug on an all-star defenseman to take a gamble on an unproven guy and an electrifying-but-inconsistent youngster.

To be perfectly honest, this is probably a deal that requires Detroit to throw in slightly more value, but there’s a decent chance that the extra intangible value of the Svechnikov brother connection doesn’t boot this off the table from the get-go.

I hate wingingitinmotown, but yea i f***s wit it

[krsmith17 7,191]

A trade with Carolina makes way too much sense. Perfect trade partners. Make the call Holland.

[Dabura 12,207]

17 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because hes a 21 year old former first rounder. The longer we hold on to him while the suck continues, the more value he loses.

That's assuming he continues to suck. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't -- but, personally, I'm willing to bet his current trade value is pretty negligible anyway. We'd be selling low.

Like I said, he might have some value as a deal-clinching sweetener. But I reckon that's about the extent of his trade value right now.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I love AA, but if him in a package brings us Hanifin, f***in A do it!

AA, Svech, VEG 1st. (If we still have it.)

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

That's assuming he continues to suck. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't -- but, personally, I'm willing to bet his current trade value is pretty negligible anyway. We'd be selling low.

Like I said, he might have some value as a deal-clinching sweetener. But I reckon that's about the extent of his trade value right now.

I have cursed him with the suck. Now we must trade. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I have cursed him with the suck. Now we must trade. 

Part of me sort of believes this... 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I love AA, but if him in a package brings us Hanifin, f***in A do it!

AA, Svech, VEG 1st. (If we still have it.)

That's too much. AA, Svech, First of 2 Second Rounders for Hanifin and Carolina's 3rd Rounder is where I start. I would bump it up to the VGK 1st rounder to get it done, but there has to be more than just Hanifin coming back.

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Part of me sort of believes this... 

No amount of your B. Smith/Jurco voodoo can save him now.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

On 5/18/2018 at 4:58 PM, Buppy said:

Train wreck of an AHL season and did next to nothing in his stint with the Wings. What could possibly make you think "he'd be overvalued around the league right now"? I'd expect the exact opposite if anything. Even if there is something there to see that would lead you to the conclusion that he won't be any good, I'm sure all the scouts around the league have seen it as well. They've probably seen more of him than you have.

To be completely fair to the kid though, he was only allotted 5-8 minutes a night and hardly ever on the powerplay. That's a HUGE reason why he didn't do much while called up. Oh, and linemates make a big difference, too... He was paired with Witkowski on some nights. Talk about being tied to an anchor.

And as the one scout pointed out, he was doing the little things right, so he's on the right path.

Hicketts also had a train wreck of an AHL season, yet posted 3 assists in 5 games when called up (because he was actually given minutes and powerplay time).

Edited May 31, 2018 by SwedeLundin77

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Both Patrick Holway and Chase Pearson are at the Univ. of Maine and are doing pretty well for themselves.

Holway is a RH'd D and Pearson a LH'd C. Will they earn contracts by the time they near graduation? Dunno, but they are kiddie viddles when it comes to others that we already have under contract, these guys are just two examples of players that should get that ELC, report to GR and see if they can make it! Plus being teammates already, the familiarity should help.

Adam Marsh has seemed to regress a bit since he left The Q.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Both Patrick Holway and Chase Pearson are at the Univ. of Maine and are doing pretty well for themselves.

Holway is a RH'd D and Pearson a LH'd C. Will they earn contracts by the time they near graduation? Dunno, but they are kiddie viddles when it comes to others that we already have under contract, these guys are just two examples of players that should get that ELC, report to GR and see if they can make it! Plus being teammates already, the familiarity should help.

Adam Marsh has seemed to regress a bit since he left The Q.

Yeah, I agree with you on both guys. Both had good freshmen years and both improved in their sophomore years. It's good to see Pearson earned the C, too.

Interesting on Marsh, too, as he hasn't played very many games (only 68 over the past 2 seasons and only 27 this past season). Has he had injury issues?

[LeftWinger 4,953]

On 5/31/2018 at 7:56 PM, SwedeLundin77 said:

Yeah, I agree with you on both guys. Both had good freshmen years and both improved in their sophomore years. It's good to see Pearson earned the C, too.

Interesting on Marsh, too, as he hasn't played very many games (only 68 over the past 2 seasons and only 27 this past season). Has he had injury issues?

Not so sure on injuries, but:

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/red-wings-adam-marsh-re-entering-draft/

He won't be a Red Wing. Looks like he re-entered last draft...dont think he got selected.

Edited June 3, 2018 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,953]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-adam-peter-marsh-impaired-driving-charge-1.4437412

Also, seems like he has locker room issues too, here's an old article:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/09/forward_adam_marsh_capitalizes.html

...and another before the draft:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-hockey-billet-family-adam-marsh-spt-1123-20141121-column.html

Seems like his attitude has always gotten the best of him...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 hours ago, F.Michael said:

If only we had Marc Bergevin as our GM 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 5/31/2018 at 11:56 AM, LeftWinger said:

Both Patrick Holway and Chase Pearson are at the Univ. of Maine and are doing pretty well for themselves.

Holway is a RH'd D and Pearson a LH'd C. Will they earn contracts by the time they near graduation? Dunno, but they are kiddie viddles when it comes to others that we already have under contract, these guys are just two examples of players that should get that ELC, report to GR and see if they can make it! Plus being teammates already, the familiarity should help.

Adam Marsh has seemed to regress a bit since he left The Q.

Would you then say he's become an Adam "Dead" Marsh?

Edited June 5, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie