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kipwinger

Original Six...Sorta?

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Ok, laying aside the obvious fact that Keith Olbermann is a pretentious dickhead, what do you all think about this? Was the concept of the "Original Six" just a marketing ploy? Is it disingenuous? Or does it even matter?

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I do think it calls into question something bigger though. Why do we care about the Original Six if they're not original? Does it really mean anything? Do all these Finns, Swedes, Russians, and Czechs give a damn about a history that's made up? Or is it some talking point they're told to hit on, just like they're required to wear officially sanctioned clothing during interviews?

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I still see the Original 6 as who they are perceived to be - the 6 franchises prior to the expansion in 1967...Nothing more - nothing less.

Sure, but I guess I'm asking "what does that mean to you"? Like, does that make them special, or more revered? Or does it simply make them older? Is there some sort of inherent rivalry between the teams based on their being "original six", or does that mean squat?

It's like we talked about in some rivalry thread a month or two ago. Clearly Boston and Montreal is a solid rivalry between original six teams. So is Detroit-Chicago. But do those rivalries have anything at all to do with being O-6 teams? I mean, Detroit-New York doesn't have the same effect. Neither does Chicago-Toronto.

Or maybe, and I'm giving this full credence, the Original Six designation means something (if only) because it's always meant something. Maybe, despite being predicated on very little, its a meaningful part of the hockey tradition because we've all collectively bought into it. Like the "Columbus discovered America" stuff. We've bought into it. It's an institution. It doesn't matter anymore if its not true.

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I share the same view as most of the folks here in that the Original Six was meant to distinguish Boston, Detroit, Montreal, Toronto, NY, and Chicago from the first expansion era teams. Having said that, the original six was around for what, 25 years before the league grew? That's a long time to play the same small group of teams over and over again (I think the math comes out to teams playing one another about 10 times a season), and as such, I think the rivalries went quite deep, even after the expansion. 25 years is also a long time to establish history before other teams permanently joined in, so by the time the expansion came around, the original six already had two and a half decades of wins, losses, Stanley Cup victories, stories of overcoming odds, injuries, animosity, etc; two and a half decades of history was well established at that point. Back then, if I'm a casual fan just getting started with the game of hockey, I'm taking an interest to the original six because of that history and because of those aleady well-established rivalries. If I'm trying to market the game, I'm utilizing the original six to sell tickets and merchendise, again, because of those rivalries and history that the expansion era teams had initially lacked.

Today, obviously there's a good deal of history for most clubs, and rivalries all across the board. I don't think the Wings have a rivalry with any particular team, and most of the history and rivalries our fans are most passionate about are those which they can remember and were a part of. So games against Chicago are special. Games against Anaheim are special. Games against Pittsburgh are special. Games against Toronto, Montreal, NY? Not so much these days, other than Toronto's fanbase invading the Joe and making the crowds louder. Of course media is still going to market the original six, and I think these days its more of a cultural thing to put them up on a pedestal, and if you truly are passionate about the history that's there, then awesome! But there's a lot of other teams out there with a lot of stories to tell also.

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It means something because people like history. These are the oldest teams with vaunted histories and legends. That's all. There's no rule they have to be rivals. Detroit and Chicago, for example, have been rivals in several sports. But the legends and the rivalries that do exist have had time to mature and get intense. Newer teams with shorter histories just don't have the same experience.

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Sure, but I guess I'm asking "what does that mean to you"? Like, does that make them special, or more revered? Or does it simply make them older? Is there some sort of inherent rivalry between the teams based on their being "original six", or does that mean squat?

It's like we talked about in some rivalry thread a month or two ago. Clearly Boston and Montreal is a solid rivalry between original six teams. So is Detroit-Chicago. But do those rivalries have anything at all to do with being O-6 teams? I mean, Detroit-New York doesn't have the same effect. Neither does Chicago-Toronto.

Or maybe, and I'm giving this full credence, the Original Six designation means something (if only) because it's always meant something. Maybe, despite being predicated on very little, its a meaningful part of the hockey tradition because we've all collectively bought into it. Like the "Columbus discovered America" stuff. We've bought into it. It's an institution. It doesn't matter anymore if its not true.

Honestly, I think it is a lot of the latter. Humans love arbitrary "labels" and making meaning out of things that are mundane. I think being "first" at something or "original" in the sense of existing before some sort of change is inherently important to a lot of people. Whether that has meaning in itself or meaning because we give it arbitrary meaning I think depends on the importance individual people give to created groupings.

I think I confused myself

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Honestly, I think it is a lot of the latter. Humans love arbitrary "labels" and making meaning out of things that are mundane. I think being "first" at something or "original" in the sense of existing before some sort of change is inherently important to a lot of people. Whether that has meaning in itself or meaning because we give it arbitrary meaning I think depends on the importance individual people give to created groupings.

I think I confused myself

Look at you go, you little intellectual.

Don't let BoS fool you, folks. There's more to this lady than her potty humor and arbitrary references to pop culture would suggest!

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What utter crap. I like when Olbermann holds people to account, especially stupid people in sports. He can also be a boor.

As far as the Original Six, I have a hat with the Detroit, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, NYR and Berwyn logos. It says right on the hat "Original Six" on the front and "Old Time Hockey" on the back.

Guess that proves Olbermann wrong.

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What utter crap. I like when Olbermann holds people to account, especially stupid people in sports. He can also be a boor.

As far as the Original Six, I have a hat with the Detroit, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, NYR and Berwyn logos. It says right on the hat "Original Six" on the front and "Old Time Hockey" on the back.

Guess that proves Olbermann wrong.

When I was a kid, I had a t-shirt depicting Calvin and Hobbes peeing on a Ford Truck logo. It proves, at the very least, how the Calvin, Hobbes, and Ford hierarchy shakes out.

Edited by kipwinger

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Hockey embodies respect, and not a small part of that comes from paying due to those that came before. O6 teams highlighted arguably the best players that will ever play the game. Honoring the traditions of hockey is, at least to my generation, part of what makes this game special. There's a reverence afforded to Maurice Richard and Gordie Howe that will probably never be reproduced, as much as the league is attempting to force certain players into that strata.

Fans of expansion teams have the advantage of (hopefully) watching their teams grow and being witness to many firsts that fans of O6 teams will never get to experience, but I wouldn't trade my respect for and pride in the Original 6 for anything, and that's something they'll never get to experience.

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When I was a kid, I had a t-shirt depicting Calvin and Hobbes peeing on a Ford Truck logo. It proves, at the very least, how the Calvin, Hobbes, and Ford hierarchy shakes out.

Just a side note because I'm so passionate about Calvin and Hobbes, but those logos frustrate me, because they were all illegal use of Calvin and Hobbes. Watterson intentionally avoided marketing Calvin and Hobbes memoribia because he thought the whole concept was completely against the whole idea behind his comic, and Calvin and Hobbes as characters. Somebody, somehwere made the Calvin pissing logo and before long it was everywhere, with Calvin peeling on all sorts of different logos and what not. Pursuing a ceast and desist or lawsuit was difficult due to how many different companies were involved and how widespread it got. So it persisted, and Calvin peeing became an iconic image, with everyone pretty much using the image freely. Watterson got nothing for anyone using the image, and frankly he didn't want anything (or the image to even be out there in the first place).

Anyway, it has nothing to do with hockey. I'm just a diehard Calvin and Hobbes fan and saw the opportunity to vent. Carry on!

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When I was a kid, I had a t-shirt depicting Calvin and Hobbes peeing on a Ford Truck logo. It proves, at the very least, how the Calvin, Hobbes, and Ford hierarchy shakes out.

Just a side note because I'm so passionate about Calvin and Hobbes, but those logos frustrate me, because they were all illegal use of Calvin and Hobbes. Watterson intentionally avoided marketing Calvin and Hobbes memoribia because he thought the whole concept was completely against the whole idea behind his comic, and Calvin and Hobbes as characters. Somebody, somehwere made the Calvin pissing logo and before long it was everywhere, with Calvin peeling on all sorts of different logos and what not. Pursuing a ceast and desist or lawsuit was difficult due to how many different companies were involved and how widespread it got. So it persisted, and Calvin peeing became an iconic image, with everyone pretty much using the image freely. Watterson got nothing for anyone using the image, and frankly he didn't want anything (or the image to even be out there in the first place).

Anyway, it has nothing to do with hockey. I'm just a diehard Calvin and Hobbes fan and saw the opportunity to vent. Carry on!

Watterson draws a C&H strip every day and throws it away. He also did a guest stint for Pearls Before Swine a couple months ago.

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I was born in the O6 era. I recall my dad saying that if you can't root for Detroit (in the playoffs), root for an Original 6 team. The rest are just interlopers. Boys playing with the men. He was still saying that when he passed in '09.

For the older folks, it's about remembering when and being proud that they were around to witness it. For me, it's kind of hard to think of teams that are almost as old as I am as "new".

I'm not really sure what it means to this generation.


Just, for the love of Pete, DON'T refer to the "original 12". Makes my skin crawl.

Of course, to the younger generation, the O6 and Second 6 kind of are the O12.

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