Franson to Preds

[krsmith17 7,191]

Jimmy, I'm not sure who's throat I jumped down?... Unless you mean when I said, "I think you're way off base"? If so, yeah, I totally jumped down his throat...

There were plenty of people that agreed with me that Franson was the best option available (and he absolutely was). For those that didn't see it, either didn't watch him enough or were misinformed of the type of defenseman he truly is...

I bet if we did a poll prior to this trade, "Should we trade for Cody Franson?", it would have been split down the middle, if not swaying slightly in the yes column...

This team puck possession relation to player giveaways and takeaways is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It has nothing to do with the team as a whole and more to do with the style of defenseman. Offensive defensemen tend to pinch and gamble in the offensive zone, whereas a defensive defenseman rarely jumps in and plays it safe. Who's going to have more giveaways in general? Of course the offensive defenseman would.

Take a look at PK Subban on a really good team with 71 giveaways and only 17 takeaways, and then Erik Karlsson on a really bad team, with 69 giveaways and 39 takeaways. I suppose we wouldn't want either of those guys either would we? Drew Doughty who is on a pretty average team this year, has 60 giveaways and only 6 takeaways. Talk about a garbage defenseman... And no I'm not saying Franson is anywhere near the level of any of these players, I'm just comparing their numbers as offensive defenseman and showing that it is the type of player, not the team...

Now, the cause to have to block so many shots has more to do with the team as a whole and the fact that he does block as many shots as he does, shows what kind of player he is. He is an offensive defenseman that can also play very steady defense.

As for us never knowing if he was in fact the player that could have put us over the top, and it being pointless to argue the cost because we'll never know, I couldn't agree more, which is why I said, "Franson isn't coming here, so this conversation is pointless"...

Either way, Franson is a great player, and exactly what this team needed. We missed out, and at this point, I hope we stand pat at the deadline, unless a deal comes along that we can't refuse...

[Rivalred 630]

Obviously stating the entire league knows the Wings haven been looking for a right handed D Man...

Wings are going to pay a high price for that, plain and simple. If we land someone, we will have to overpay

Folks here need to realize that

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Jimmy, I'm not sure who's throat I jumped down?... Unless you mean when I said, "I think you're way off base"? If so, yeah, I totally jumped down his throat...

There were plenty of people that agreed with me that Franson was the best option available (and he absolutely was). For those that didn't see it, either didn't watch him enough or were misinformed of the type of defenseman he truly is...

I bet if we did a poll prior to this trade, "Should we trade for Cody Franson?", it would have been split down the middle, if not swaying slightly in the yes column...

This team puck possession relation to player giveaways and takeaways is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It has nothing to do with the team as a whole and more to do with the style of defenseman. Offensive defensemen tend to pinch and gamble in the offensive zone, whereas a defensive defenseman rarely jumps in and plays it safe. Who's going to have more giveaways in general? Of course the offensive defenseman would.

Take a look at PK Subban on a really good team with 71 giveaways and only 17 takeaways, and then Erik Karlsson on a really bad team, with 69 giveaways and 39 takeaways. I suppose we wouldn't want either of those guys either would we? Drew Doughty who is on a pretty average team this year, has 60 giveaways and only 6 takeaways. Talk about a garbage defenseman... And no I'm not saying Franson is anywhere near the level of any of these players, I'm just comparing their numbers as offensive defenseman and showing that it is the type of player, not the team...

Now, the cause to have to block so many shots has more to do with the team as a whole and the fact that he does block as many shots as he does, shows what kind of player he is. He is an offensive defenseman that can also play very steady defense.

As for us never knowing if he was in fact the player that could have put us over the top, and it being pointless to argue the cost because we'll never know, I couldn't agree more, which is why I said, "Franson isn't coming here, so this conversation is pointless"...

Either way, Franson is a great player, and exactly what this team needed. We missed out, and at this point, I hope we stand pat at the deadline, unless a deal comes along that we can't refuse...

It was more the, "You're so off base here I don't even know where to start," and the "Give me a f***king break," lines I was referring to.

Also the passive aggression in your posts to him, It just seemed really condescending to someone who was trying to understand your argument, and personally, I felt like it was unwarranted for you to take such offense to it.

That's all I was saying man.

And I didn't say he was a bad player, or that he wouldn't have made us better, it that I find it to be anything less than admirable that he would be blocking shots.

Once again, I was simply explaining his point to you since you seemed to scoff at it. Yeah, I get it, its the type of player that he is. But it doesn't make the argument any less true.

If we could have gotten him for a prospect and a second round pick I'd have been all for it, but since we'll never know what it would have cost us I can't say whether or not it would have be worth the price tag.

Edited February 16, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Obviously stating the entire league knows the Wings haven been looking for a right handed D Man...

Wings are going to pay a high price for that, plain and simple. If we land someone, we will have to overpay

Folks here need to realize that

No, Kenny Holland needs to realize that. He's always asking for it, but never willing to overpay. Maybe he shouldn't beg so hard.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Jimmy, in my opinion, he was way off base, that is not jumping down his throat... And the give me a f***ing break comment was directed at frankgrimes for saying that the Leafs wouldn't trade with us to make us better because they want us to get bounced from the playoffs early so that Babcock goes to Toronto... That is absurd...

Passive aggression? Seriously? I don't take any offense to anything he said, I'm just having trouble understanding where he's coming from. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I'm also having a hard time understanding why you're getting so offended here... I haven't said anything that hasn't been said on any discussion board before...

You see a defenseman blocking shots as a bad thing? Really? Kronwall is our best offensive defenseman and he leads our team in blocked shots every single season, although still not close to the amount Franson blocks... In what world is blocking shots for your team a bad quality to have? What about hitting? Is that a bad thing too?

Also, it does absolutely make the argument less true... In no way does the amount of takeaways or giveaways a player has, have anything to do with the amount of puck possession of their team... It has everything to do with the style of defenseman. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that...

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Jimmy, in my opinion, he was way off base, that is not jumping down his throat... And the give me a f***ing break comment was directed at frankgrimes for saying that the Leafs wouldn't trade with us to make us better because they want us to get bounced from the playoffs early so that Babcock goes to Toronto... That is absurd...

Passive aggression? Seriously? I don't take any offense to anything he said, I'm just having trouble understanding where he's coming from. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I'm also having a hard time understanding why you're getting so offended here... I haven't said anything that hasn't been said on any discussion board before...

You see a defenseman blocking shots as a bad thing? Really? Kronwall is our best offensive defenseman and he leads our team in blocked shots every single season, although still not close to the amount Franson blocks... In what world is blocking shots for your team a bad quality to have? What about hitting? Is that a bad thing too?

Also, it does absolutely make the argument less true... In no way does the amount of takeaways or giveaways a player has, have anything to do with the amount of puck possession of their team... It has everything to do with the style of defenseman. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that...

I'm not offended by it, and my bad if I read it wrong dude. You just seemed, to me, to be really standoffish about it,Its hard to read tone through text so easy mistake.

And no I didn't say that I see blocking shots as a bad thing...

The points arent clear apparently, which is what has led to this situation. Ha.

I was saying the opposite about him blocking shots.

Reread the sentence where I say "And I didn't say he was a bad player, or that he wouldn't have made us better, or that I find it to be anything less than admirable that he would be blocking shots."

Meaning I find it admirable that he is blocking shots, which I thought would've been clear.

If You give away the puck, you no longer have possession of the puck...

So how does give always not effect puck possession.

Edit.

Honestly never mind.

Im done arguing about this, we have different perspectives, fine.

I thought you were being confrontational, I misread the situation, i was wrong. Its fine. I'm over it.

Edited February 16, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think you're back peddling here now Jimmy, and if you're trying to retract your original statement, that's fine, but don't act like you didn't say it, or that I must have misunderstood... Here's your original statement "it's a bad sign that he has so many blocked shots because for a guy relied upon for offense, blocking shots means he was spending a lot of time in his defensive zone, where you can't score from." This is indicative of the team, not the player. The fact that the team was on the defensive as often as they were, and Franson would put his body on the line, can be taken as nothing but a good thing...

Giveaways are on the player, not the team, but it has to do with the type of player more than the overall skill of the player. An offensive puck moving defenseman is always going to have more giveaways than a defensive shut-down defenseman. Remember how great of a puck mover Rafalski was when he was here? He also lead the team every season in giveaways. Hell even the great Nick Lidstrom was up there in giveaways every single season, often times having double the giveaways to takeaways...

I'm not in any way saying that giveaways don't effect puck possession. I'm saying that a puck possession team doesn't reflect whether or not a player on that team should be higher or lower on giveaways or takeaways... That is entirely to do with each player individually and the style each player plays. I REALLY don't get what is so hard to understand about this...

Anyway, Franson is in Nashville, let's just forget about it...

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I think you're back peddling here now Jimmy, and if you're trying to retract your original statement, that's fine, but don't act like you didn't say it, or that I must have misunderstood... Here's your original statement "it's a bad sign that he has so many blocked shots because for a guy relied upon for offense, blocking shots means he was spending a lot of time in his defensive zone, where you can't score from." This is indicative of the team, not the player. The fact that the team was on the defensive as often as they were, and Franson would put his body on the line, can be taken as nothing but a good thing...

Giveaways are on the player, not the team, but it has to do with the type of player more than the overall skill of the player. An offensive puck moving defenseman is always going to have more giveaways than a defensive shut-down defenseman. Remember how great of a puck mover Rafalski was when he was here? He also lead the team every season in giveaways. Hell even the great Nick Lidstrom was up there in giveaways every single season, often times having double the giveaways to takeaways...

I'm not in any way saying that giveaways don't effect puck possession. I'm saying that a puck possession team doesn't reflect whether or not a player on that team should be higher or lower on giveaways or takeaways... That is entirely to do with each player individually and the style each player plays. I REALLY don't get what is so hard to understand about this...

Anyway, Franson is in Nashville, let's just forget about it...

Ohhh. Okay.. I get what you're saying now about the team/type of player he is....

Yeah. We were on different pages man.

But im not retracting it, I do think its awesome that he's blocking shots.

I was just saying that he's supposed to be an offensive d man, and the amount of time he's spending in his own zone was my concern.. which is what I was getting at.

But were kind of saying the same thing here anyway I was just putting more onus on him for his giveaways and not getting the puck our of his zone, and you were putting more emphasis on that being a team and thing.

Which hands down it is.

But when I've seen him pinned his own zone, multiple times it was from him giving the puck away instead of getting it out cleanly.

But I agree. Let's drop it.

Edited February 16, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[kliq 3,755]

Hard to believe only 2 years ago rumors were that he was asking for 6mil a year, now he is accepting PTO's. Had he signed a reasonable contract when FA started in 2015 he would likely be 3 years into a 4 or 5 year deal right now. Either him or his agent really screwed up.

If I remember correctly, he wanted big money (ie. 6mil per year), nobody signed him and then he settled in Aug or Sept for 2 years @ 3.3 mil a year in Buffalo. 

Maybe Tatar can read this and see how holding out if you are an above average player can really bite you in the ass.

http://www.tsn.ca/report-franson-may-join-blackhawks-on-pto-1.806527

 

[chaps80 1,591]

guess holland was skiing this weekend
http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=753452

Skiing at his desk on a mountain of blow? Lol


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[kliq 3,755]

44 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I was never sold on him, but I did think he was a better alternative to Lashoff.

Oh 100%......but he wanted to be paid like a top pairing guy and wasnt close to that. As a 5th or 6th D-man back then, I would have loved to have him.

[chaps80 1,591]

Hard to believe only 2 years ago rumors were that he was asking for 6mil a year, now he is accepting PTO's. Had he signed a reasonable contract when FA started in 2015 he would likely be 3 years into a 4 or 5 year deal right now. Either him or his agent really screwed up.
If I remember correctly, he wanted big money (ie. 6mil per year), nobody signed him and then he settled in Aug or Sept for 2 years @ 3.3 mil a year in Buffalo. 
Maybe Tatar can read this and see how holding out if you are an above average player can really bite you in the ass.
http://www.tsn.ca/report-franson-may-join-blackhawks-on-pto-1.806527
 

Tatar would not end up on a PTO though. He deserves what he's asking. Holland just can't do it cause he wasted the cash on Daley and thought Tatar would bow down. Maybe you should lock up one of your top scorers before going UFA hunting. Abby gets $4 mill plus a season. That's going to be a huge point of discussion in Tatar's contract talks I bet. Holland always shoots himself in the foot and it's really getting tiresome. Still funny, but tiresome. I can't wait until the day the Illitchs finally wake the hell up and can his ass.


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[krsmith17 7,191]

39 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Tatar would not end up on a PTO though. He deserves what he's asking. Holland just can't do it cause he wasted the cash on Daley and thought Tatar would bow down. Maybe you should lock up one of your top scorers before going UFA hunting. Abby gets $4 mill plus a season. That's going to be a huge point of discussion in Tatar's contract talks I bet. Holland always shoots himself in the foot and it's really getting tiresome. Still funny, but tiresome. I can't wait until the day the Illitchs finally wake the hell up and can his ass.

I didn't think the Daley signing was a very good one based on the current state of this team, but I don't think that signing should have anything to do with re-signing any RFA's. If we really needed (wanted) to sign Daley, it "should be" easy enough to shed that extra $1-2M to sign the remaining RFA's (Tatar and Athanasiou). It was never really the cap space that I was worried about when we signed Daley (he signed a very cap friendly deal), it was the roster spot...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Give Glendening $1 mil like he should be getting and tell Helm to take $3.2-ish or let him walk and replace him with a cheaper guy and signing Tatar is a non-issue.  It all goes back to Holland's mismanagement and thinking he has to spend money just because he has it the last few years.

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Tatar would not end up on a PTO though. He deserves what he's asking. Holland just can't do it cause he wasted the cash on Daley and thought Tatar would bow down. Maybe you should lock up one of your top scorers before going UFA hunting. Abby gets $4 mill plus a season. That's going to be a huge point of discussion in Tatar's contract talks I bet. Holland always shoots himself in the foot and it's really getting tiresome. Still funny, but tiresome. I can't wait until the day the Illitchs finally wake the hell up and can his ass.


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That wasn't my implication, of course Tatar will not be on a PTO in one year unless something drastic happens. My point was that if Tatar goes to arbitration for a 1 year deal and passes on a long term contract (like Franson) he could end up costing himself a lot more money in the long run. All it takes is an injury or a down year and your value can plummet in the NHL, and with Tatar being pretty one dimensional, I could see that happening to him. There is a reason why players like to sign extensions in such a physical game.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

It is a risk, but most of the time the player ends up better off holding out for a longer deal

Sent by my minions via telepathy

[kliq 3,755]

21 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

It is a risk, but most of the time the player ends up better off holding out for a longer deal

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

The better the player I tend to agree, but when you are dealing with good or average players I think it's all about timing and it can easily bite them in the ass.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Well we'll find out today one way or another with Tats.