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Teemu Pulkkinen called back up

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Perhaps Holland is entertaining the idea of trading Tatar or Nyquist so he wants to see what he has in Pulkinnen as a replacement?

I think to do that we'd need at least half a season to see how Pulk does when fully adjusted to the NHL and to not gamble with Tatar or Nyquist

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zombo, although I don't want to trade either Nyquist or Tatar, I'd almost prefer that then trading Pulkkinen at this point...

Why would you rather give up a young proven top 6 winger instead of a kid who might be a top 6 winger someday? Both Tatar and Nyquist are far more dynamic than Pulkinnen.

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Both Nyquist and Tatar hold much more value in a trade right now, Pulkkinen is out-producing both of them in their respective minor league careers, and Pulkkinen is that coveted right handed sniper we've been longing for...

You're stretching things a little bit here buddy.

Who's been coveting a "right handed sniper"? Holland and Babs both mentioned a right shooting defenseman on many occasions, but I defy you to find one single reference to a right handed sniper, nevermind anything close to "coveting" one.

YOU covet a right shooting sniper. And in a lot of ways I don't blame you. But the organization has never, EVER, prioritized a right shooting, sniper like, forward. Ever.

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Umm Kip, re-read what I said... Never did I say anything about the organization, I said "we" as in Red Wings fans. YOU may not care about that right handed sniper, but I guarantee most Red Wings fans would agree that we DO in fact need a right handed sniper... And just because Holland or Babcock haven't necessarily come out and publicly said, "we need a right handed sniper, that we could use on our power-play", doesn't mean they don't. I guarantee that is up there on their priority list, and for that reason, I don't think Pulkkinen is going anywhere...

I don't get why us needing some right handed shooters that can score is such an outlandish thing to say...

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Umm Kip, re-read what I said... Never did I say anything about the organization, I said "we" as in Red Wings fans. YOU may not care about that right handed sniper, but I guarantee most Red Wings fans would agree that we DO in fact need a right handed sniper... And just because Holland or Babcock haven't necessarily come out and publicly said, "we need a right handed sniper, that we could use on our power-play", doesn't mean they don't. I guarantee that is up there on their priority list, and for that reason, I don't think Pulkkinen is going anywhere...

I don't get why us needing some right handed shooters that can score is such an outlandish thing to say...

So, like I said, You (and apparently some other fans too) covet a right handed sniper. But not the organization. Because despite your guarantees, they have never, ever, mentioned it. Ever...ever, ever, ever, ever.

Holland and Co. have had no problem specifically saying they want a right shooting d-man. A puck moving d-man. A top four d-man. A second line center. More center depth. Bigger forwards. More team speed. All mentioned EXPLICITLY. And they've never once mentioned a right shooting "sniper" and yet that's the thing you're focusing on. I just don't understand why.

Like I said, I get why you want one. And now that we've got one I wouldn't throw it away for peanuts. But I also wouldn't go over estimating the importance of one either. There are exactly two right shooting "snipers" in the national hockey league, both miles ahead of Pulkkinen, and neither have won a Cup. I don't think it's some secret ingredient for success. I'd MUCH rather have a #1 defenseman than an undersized right shot sniper, for example.

Edit: I'll tell you what, you're one hell of an arguer. You're the only person on LGW that will both deny speaking for the organization AND guarantee the things on their priority list, in the exact same post. That's some fancy doublespeak.

Edited by kipwinger

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Why are you so concentrated on the organization? I don't get it... I never said anything about the organization... My original statement was "although "I" don't want to trade either Nyquist or Tatar, "I'd" almost prefer that than trade Pulkkinen at this point"... If you haven't noticed, that was "my" personal preference based on what "I" believe our need is, and who would garner the most interest from other teams in a trade... How is that so difficult to understand?

If you think for a second that Babcock wouldn't love to have a right-handed "sniper", in his line-up, you're being very naïve. Another thing, you're taking the term "sniper" way too literally. I'm more or less talking about a right-handed shooter that can score goals, I'm not talking about the top 3 right handed shots in the entire league... I think there are a number of right-wingers in the league that Kenny and Babs would be very interested in based solely on the way they shoot the puck. I don't think they believe we need an Ovechkin or Stamkos to be successful, but Pulkkinen is a huge weapon because of the way he shoots the puck...

I really didn't think there would be controversy over that statement at all... I get that people think it's a bit crazy to suggest trading Nyquist or Tatar before Pulkkinen, but to be that taken away that we need more right handed shots on defense as well as forwards is crazy to me...

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Why are you so concentrated on the organization? I don't get it... I never said anything about the organization... My original statement was "although "I" don't want to trade either Nyquist or Tatar, "I'd" almost prefer that than trade Pulkkinen at this point"... If you haven't noticed, that was "my" personal preference based on what "I" believe our need is, and who would garner the most interest from other teams in a trade... How is that so difficult to understand?

If you think for a second that Babcock wouldn't love to have a right-handed "sniper", in his line-up, you're being very naïve. Another thing, you're taking the term "sniper" way too literally. I'm more or less talking about a right-handed shooter that can score goals, I'm not talking about the top 3 right handed shots in the entire league... I think there are a number of right-wingers in the league that Kenny and Babs would be very interested in based solely on the way they shoot the puck. I don't think they believe we need an Ovechkin or Stamkos to be successful, but Pulkkinen is a huge weapon because of the way he shoots the puck...

I really didn't think there would be controversy over that statement at all... I get that people think it's a bit crazy to suggest trading Nyquist or Tatar before Pulkkinen, but to be that taken away that we need more right handed shots on defense as well as forwards is crazy to me...

The controversy isn't about the relative "goodness" of more guys who can score in different ways.

You stated your opinion, but presented it as a "team NEED", and even guaranteed that "most fans" AND the organization have prioritized this same "need". Except they haven't ever, EVER, done so. YOU can think whatever you want. But you don't speak for most fans, or the organization.

Have whatever preference you want. That's fine. But it shouldn't come as a surprise when nobody agrees with you on a "team need" that you, AND ONLY YOU, have articulated.

Aaaand finally, saying "I'm only talking about my own preferences" after "guaranteeing that most fans" agree with you, AND guaranteeing that the organization has prioritized the same thing, is...bulls***. You're just being argumentative. You tried to generalize your preferences to everybody else, and when you got called out on it, you said "I was only talking about me". You weren't. You spoke on behalf of at least two other groups of people. Stop lying and take it like a man.

Edited by kipwinger

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LOL I'm being argumentative? You're the most argumentative person on this site by a long shot. It's quite humorous actually... How about we start a new poll thread asking the fans (LGWers) "Should we be looking to add some more right-handed shooters (snipers) to our lineup?" You actually think most people would click "No"... F***ing hilarious... And I could care less if management have ever come out and said anything about having a right-handed winger in their line-up, I do guarantee they would love to have one... You assuming they wouldn't is ridiculous... But yeah, nobody would agree with me that we need a right-handed sniper... No one at all... Get over yourself Kip...

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Both Nyquist and Tatar hold much more value in a trade right now, Pulkkinen is out-producing both of them in their respective minor league careers, and Pulkkinen is that coveted right handed sniper we've been longing for...

They have more value because they're proven players. That doesn't mean they should be traded instead of a prospect.

Production in the minors doesn't guarantee production in the NHL.

Who is "we?" I haven't been longing for a rh sniper.

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LOL I'm being argumentative? You're the most argumentative person on this site by a long shot. It's quite humorous actually... How about we start a new poll thread asking the fans (LGWers) "Should we be looking to add some more right-handed shooters (snipers) to our lineup?" You actually think most people would click "No"... F***ing hilarious... And I could care less if management have ever come out and said anything about having a right-handed winger in their line-up, I do guarantee they would love to have one... You assuming they wouldn't is ridiculous... But yeah, nobody would agree with me that we need a right-handed sniper... No one at all... Get over yourself Kip...

He didn't say no one agrees with you.

He pointed out that not everyone agrees with you, as he personally doesn't agree with you, he's right.

And fwiw, you do seem ridiculoualy argumentative about little stuff man, I appreciate that you're passionate about your opinions, but were not against you. And it doesn't seem like you know that.

But I'm not looking to argue over this, so please dont loop me into the debate as I was just looking to be a voice of reason.

Kip is very argumentative as well though, ha.

He knows it.

But Back on topic, I'm excited to see pulks back up and given time with the top six.

I hope he can get some points up there and show he belongs, and that babs keeps him with them and gives him a real shot with some talented linemates.

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jimmy, I started out being "argumentative", because kip, like he often does, put words in my mouth. I never said anything about the organization originally but he made it seem like I did. Also, he did say no one agrees with me... Kipwinger - "it shouldn't come as a surprise when nobody agrees with you on a "team need" that you AND ONLY YOU, have articulated"...

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All I'm saying is that I don't think we need a right shot sniper...and I GUARANTEE most fans AND the organization feel the exact same way...but I'm only talking about my preference...and most fans and the organization too...but just me...and them. I guarantee it. But only for me. And everybody else too.

Edited by kipwinger

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No Kip, my original statement that you took completely out of context was what I was referring to as my opinion. But yes, I do guarantee that a LOT of Red Wings fans as well as management and the coaches would love to have a few more right handed shots in our lineup, both at forward and defense. You get why I would want a right handed sniper in our lineup but you cannot understand why the Red Wings as a team would want that same luxury. Great logic there Kip...

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No Kip, my original statement that you took completely out of context was what I was referring to as my opinion. But yes, I do guarantee that a LOT of Red Wings fans as well as management and the coaches would love to have a few more right handed shots in our lineup, both at forward and defense. You get why I would want a right handed sniper in our lineup but you cannot understand why the Red Wings as a team would want that same luxury. Great logic there Kip...

Your original statement was "Pulkkinen is the coveted right handed sniper we've been longing for". Which is you speaking for other people. From the very get go you were trying to speak on behalf other people and when you got called on it, you fell back on this "I'm only speaking for myself" crap. You weren't. Even at the beginning.

Now you're saying "A lot" of other people agree with you after you previously "guaranteed MOST fans and the organization" agreed with you.

Just stop. This is silly. You've been exposed.

You don't get to speak on behalf of "most fans" or the organization without backing it up.

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You're absolutely right Kip, I'm not sure why I'm surprised though, you always are... I am the single Red Wings fan that would love to have a right handed sniper. There is no other Red Wings fans that would love to have a right handed sniper, nor would Red Wings management, or the coaching staff. All left handed shots throughout the lineup is clearly the way to go. I apologize for my ignorance...

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You're absolutely right Kip, I'm not sure why I'm surprised though, you always are... I am the single Red Wings fan that would love to have a right handed sniper. There is no other Red Wings fans that would love to have a right handed sniper, nor would Red Wings management, or the coaching staff. All left handed shots throughout the lineup is clearly the way to go. I apologize for my ignorance...

Oh no, your last resort is to accuse me of never admitting when I'm wrong? What about those two times I admitted I was wrong...just today? Once when I was talking to you...and told you that you were right?

Once here when I was talking to you about Jurco: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/77016-time-for-teemu/page-11

"You're right about that. He could have used the seasoning. I legitimately thought, after last year, that he was ready. But I was wrong on that. He definitely could have used more time to hone his power forward game down there."

And once here when I was talking about Helm and Abby: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/77150-official-2015-nhl-trade-deadline-thread/page-6

"Agreed. I'd prefer to get him out of the top six, but I certainly don't want him off the team at this point. Admittedly, I was singing a different tune at the start of the season but I was wrong about that. He and Abby have been a big part of this team's success, both because of their own production and because of their ability to battle and retrieve pucks for the skill guys."

I seriously defy you to find ANYONE else on LGW who has admitted being wrong even a single time in the last two months, and I did it twice today.

But in the mean time, you should probably just stop. This is all starting to look like sour grapes bud. You said a wrong thing, it's ok. When you get called on it next time just say "yeah, that was probably hyperbole", or "yeah, I guess they were specifically talking about a right shot defenseman". It's ok. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. Nobody expects you to be right all the time. And if you just admit you were full of it to begin with, you wouldn't have to say things like "All left handed shots throughout the lineup is clearly the way to go. I apologize for my ignorance...". Which is frankly, beneath you.

Take it from me, the guy who can (demonstrably) admit when I'm wrong.

I want you to be a better you. It's the Kip effect.

Edited by kipwinger

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Hug it out, bros. srsly.

I'd love to man, but that would only be enabling him. You can't begin to address a problem, if you fail to acknowledge that there is a problem. krsmith17 has got to take the loss on this one. If you're going to go around "guaranteeing that management thinks this" or "guaranteeing that most fans feel that", you've got to back it up. And if you can't, you're just plain old wrong. Admitting it is half that battle.

This is when the healing begins.

Edited by kipwinger

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