Do we need to add grit?

[matemate 34]

In every season the Red Wings have been accused for being soft.

Are we soft this season?

Should Holland go after a gritty defencemen or a gritty 4th liner or maybe both?


Could Chris Neil and Nicklas Grossman be something for us?


Miller - Glendening - Neil

Smith - Grossman


What gritty players are available?

[cnot19 191]

The wings can be tough to play against zetterberg and datsyuk can lean on you all game or hit you. Abs has some jam to his game. I don't think were the softest team per se in the league. Ericsson certainly can get nasty when enough is enough. What I do think we lack is someone who is mean. Someone who looks to run you hard into the boards most of the good teams in this league have some one who constantly shows their anger we do not

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

The wings can be tough to play against zetterberg and datsyuk can lean on you all game or hit you. Abs has some jam to his game. I don't think were the softest team per se in the league. Ericsson certainly can get nasty when enough is enough. What I do think we lack is someone who is mean. Someone who looks to run you hard into the boards most of the good teams in this league have some one who constantly shows their anger we do not

I would argue this is why we're ways one of the least penalized teams perennially.

[Hairy Lime 234]

Of course we are. We always are. The last presence of "grit " this team had in the playoffs was Dallas Drake. I would love to acquire Chris Neil, but Mike Babcock would just bench him. Why play Neil when you have Joakim Andersson?

[cnot19 191]

I would argue this is why we're ways one of the least penalized teams perennially.

I'd counter that argument by saying that many of the players I want do not take bad penalties and often times when they do it's a matching penalty making it 4 on 4 which is a situation I think the wings should excel in

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I'd counter that argument by saying that many of the players I want do not take bad penalties and often times when they do it's a matching penalty making it 4 on 4 which is a situation I think the wings should excel in

I'd rebuff your sentiment by saying that those guys aren't often available, ones who can chip in offensively and kill pks as good as miller come around even less.(not saying I consider what miller does offensively as chipping in.)

Also.

Glendenning is pretty mean.

And gritty.

And he gets under people skin a lot, and he draws a lot of penalties without going to the box with him.

I know one player doesn't make the team gritty, but Abby plays a pretty aggressive game, quincey gets aggro in his own right.

And ericsson doesn't let people take liberties with our players as much as people say opponents do.

Brendan smith also plays a somewhat gritty game.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

This has been needed since forever and yes the Wings are pussysoft. It's not the fault of the players because some just don't have that gritty side in them or lack the size to do it but it's the job of a front office to correct that mistake because if this teams makes the playoffs they won't be able to match the tight checking and heavyness other teams can bring if needed.

Chris Neil would be nice but I'd rather have Luke Gazdic, Patrick Bourdelaux or Frazer McLaren (currently in the AHL huge kid and could be had for a fourth rounder...). I mean, there are tons of others currently in the NHL who would strike fear into the opponents but I know Holland wouldn't sign them so I've mentioned the ones I'm hoping for.

Edited February 19, 2015 by frankgrimes

[cnot19 191]

I'd rebuff your sentiment by saying that those guys aren't often available, ones who can chip in offensively and kill pks as good as miller come around even less.(not saying I consider what miller does offensively as chipping in.)

Also.

Glendenning is pretty mean.

And gritty.

And he gets under people skin a lot, and he draws a lot of penalties without going to the box with him.

I know one player doesn't make the team gritty, but Abby plays a pretty aggressive game, quincey gets aggro in his own right.

And ericsson doesn't let people take liberties with our players as much as people say opponents do.

Brendan smith also plays a somewhat gritty game.

I forgot about glendening but would agree with your statement on him, I'm a fan. Ericsson is definitely one of the few on our team who says enough is enough and does something about it.

In my opinion it seems that miller has gotten less and less noticeable each season. Is just prefer a Matt Martin Chris Neil and many others in his place

I would also agree that it can be difficult to get those guys unlike miller who was waiver wire fodder

Edited February 19, 2015 by cnot19

[kipwinger 8,522]

I'm against anything that makes us slower. Speed is our friend. Guys like Grossman and Neil are only going to slow us down. All things being equal, I'll take a tougher guy over a weaker one. But all things have to be equal (or close to equal).

[Nevermind 363]

Sign me up for Miller-Glendening-Neil. Definitely think he'd have a Dallas Drake type of impact on a playoff series.

But I've heard at least 8 teams have shown interest in Neil. And our GM doesn't value that type of player enough to put in a competitive offer.

[Hairy Lime 234]

I'm against anything that makes us slower. Speed is our friend. Guys like Grossman and Neil are only going to slow us down. All things being equal, I'll take a tougher guy over a weaker one. But all things have to be equal (or close to equal).

But Neil, despite his age and build, actually isn't terribly slow. He's certainly faster and more mobile than McCarty was in that Stanley Cup run.

You're always going to have to sacrifice a little speed in order to add a little grit, but balanced teams have a better track record in the playoffs.

[kipwinger 8,522]

But Neil, despite his age and build, actually isn't terribly slow. He's certainly faster and more mobile than McCarty was in that Stanley Cup run.

You're always going to have to sacrifice a little speed in order to add a little grit, but balanced teams have a better track record in the playoffs.

There are plenty of gritty guys who can skate. Glendening, Prust, martin, and clutterbuck come to mind. I don't agree that you have to sacrifice speed for grittiness.

[number9 3,297]

There are plenty of gritty guys who can skate. Glendening, Prust, martin, and clutterbuck come to mind. I don't agree that you have to sacrifice speed for grittiness.

NYI really have a pair in Martin and Clutterbuck. I was surprised Minny was willing to part with Cal.

[rick zombo 3,739]

wrong thread

Edited February 19, 2015 by rick zombo

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Holland and Babcock don't like gritty players, even if they can contribute offensively and play more than 5 minutes a night. I remember how Tootoo always had trouble cracking the lineup even though he did what was asked of him.

Yes, it'd be nice if we had some grit just to mix with what we already have. Balance is important.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Holland and Babcock don't like gritty players, even if they can contribute offensively and play more than 5 minutes a night. I remember how Tootoo always had trouble cracking the lineup even though he did what was asked of him.

Yes, it'd be nice if we had some grit just to mix with what we already have. Balance is important.

Yessir.

Its important to look at how gritty guys have been used here in Detroit when acquired...

The only way they get a fair shake here is if they're drafted and developed by the wings.

Which is fine, we've got a couple that should be here within the next couple years.

Lil bertuzzi, Callahan, nastasiuk plays with an edge, Larkin's no push over either for all his skill and defensive efficiency.

And there's a few other kids in the system with size, strength, and speed who may not be all out gritty, but they're Kk picnics to play against.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Yes

Been pushing for a chris neil type for a while now ... We need someone like that come playoff time

[kipwinger 8,522]

NYI really have a pair in Martin and Clutterbuck. I was surprised Minny was willing to part with Cal.

Well they got Niederreiter in the deal so I think they're probably ok with it. He's basically the only top six forward they have who isn't a cupcake.

[Desert Rat 78]

Yessir.

Its important to look at how gritty guys have been used here in Detroit when acquired...

The only way they get a fair shake here is if they're drafted and developed by the wings.Which is fine, we've got a couple that should be here within the next couple years.

Lil bertuzzi, Callahan, nastasiuk plays with an edge, Larkin's no push over either for all his skill and defensive efficiency.

And there's a few other kids in the system with size, strength, and speed who may not be all out gritty, but they're Kk picnics to play against.

That's cool to hear about Larkin, I have to admit I don't get to actually see prospects below AHL level.

I'm Surprised too because I thought he looked like Harry Potter in pictures.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

Isn't this the reason we have Smith?

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

Love Chris Neil. Put him on a line with Clutterbuck and Prust and people would fear the winged wheel for years to come. One of them can learn how to play Center. All have a bit of offensive skill and play with a lot of drive and dedication.

Valuable players come playoff time as well, which is a hole we have had for a while, even though we had Tootoo and never used him.

[kliq 3,755]

Trading for Neil would be a waste of an asset as I doubt Babcock would play him. The guy is 35 now, is he even good anymore? I haven't watched him play in years.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

That's cool to hear about Larkin, I have to admit I don't get to actually see prospects below AHL level.

I'm Surprised too because I thought he looked like Harry Potter in pictures.

Thats funny, I thought he looked like a skinny version of one of the fat kids malfoy hung out with in the first one...

Crabbe or goyle.

I don't remember specifically which one.

But chea.

Hes tenacious, and last weekend during a game he was getting slashed at after a whistle and after about three whacks from the other guy he put a cross check right into his chest and put the guy on his arse.

[amato 3,210]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Steve Downie was available out of Pittsburgh. Granted, he takes a lot of penalties but babs would probably help with that.. And he chips in decently offensively (10 g, 13 a in 51 games). Although I'm pretty sure that's not with fourth line minutes.

His cap hit is only 1 mill though and he's a free agent at the end of the year..

Just a potential gritty guy available. I'll try to find the article.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Idk how I feel about adding a pens player, they're too uncontrolled and I really don't think babs would stop him from taking penalties. Plus as soon as he's in babs doghouse, we just wasted whatever assets we gave up for him.

Edited February 19, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter