Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

[number9 3,297]

Or maybe Ericsson doesn't punch hard enough? McGrattan would have punched Benn into the next dimension.

It's too bad that's all Mcgrattan can do

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Just read somewhere, that the Isles fans are complaining about Tavares taking a beating with Martin out with a broken nose. So I guess Brian Burke was right, when he said if the enforcers are gone the rats will take over we are seeing that now.

Sending a message leaguewide that you can't go after our starplayers without payback (either fight our tough-guy or our tough-guy will go after everyone including the other starplayers). I mean how much longer are people willing to accept that crap ?

I'm sure if a guy like Frazer McLaren tells Benn you either fight me, or I'm going after Seguin, Nischuskin...basically anybody from your team then Benn will start to think maybe it wasn't the best idea to punch Z 2 times in the head, because if he doesn't fight then someone else is toast because of his actions.

It will do something; look at the NFL. Suh gets hit with a six figure fine, then he goes a full season without even incurring a penalty. Hockey players are tough. They're not scared of some half-assed fight. In many cases, no one ever lands a solid punch. How is that more discouraging than going after their finances?

Not enforcing the rules does lead to an arms race. That's why every team used to have a designated enforcer. It's also a terrible way of encouraging safety; just look at the lawsuit against the nhl.

i.e 2.500 $ fine for a guy who made 14.000.000 that year.

it's unbelievable and if the league isn't willing to really do anything it should be up to the teams to take matters in their own hands and mean business.

Edited February 22, 2015 by frankgrimes

[The Greek 323]

Just read somewhere, that the Isles fans are complaining about Tavares taking a beating with Martin out with a broken nose. So I guess Brian Burke was right, when he said if the enforcers are gone the rats will take over we are seeing that now.

Sending a message leaguewide that you can't go after our starplayers without payback (either fight our tough-guy or our tough-guy will go after everyone including the other starplayers). I mean how much longer are people willing to accept that crap ?

I'm sure if a guy like Frazer McLaren tells Benn you either fight me, or I'm going after Seguin, Nischuskin...basically anybody from your team then Benn will start to think maybe it wasn't the best idea to punch Z 2 times in the head, because if he doesn't fight then someone else is toast because of his actions.

i.e 2.500 $ fine for a guy who made 14.000.000 that year.

it's unbelievable and if the league isn't willing to really do anything it should be up to the teams to take matters in their own hands and mean business.

Again, there is no guarantee that this will be an effective deterrent. If a guy is a better fighter than anyone on your team, what is stopping him from running your best players?

I never said a $2,500 fine. I said six figures (100,000 or more). I understand the league is limited to fines of $2,500, but a long term suspension could have the exact same effect of huge fine.

Edit: did you really suggest that an enforcer should run seguin if Benn doesn't answer for a cheap shot? You're really just proving why letting players enforce the rules is a terrible idea. If a player refuses to fight, he and his teammates ought to subjected to an on ice assault. Got it.

Edited February 22, 2015 by The Greek

[Internet.Unknown 422]

I agree 100%! And notice it's always a Canadian punching a European in the head. These idiots from Canada continue to prove my point that Canadians are the most violent, the worst cheap shot artists, and are the most racist in professional sports. It's why I refuse to cheer for my home country in the Olympics.

Funny how they don't put up with this kind of thing in Football, but they do in Hockey. With a lawsuit soon against the NHL by former players, Benn punching Zetterberg in the head is more evidence for the former players.

Agree, it's the League's job to police the game, not the players.

Pot, kettle?

[The Greek 323]

Pot, kettle?

He says it right in the post that he's canadien. Your chosen idiom doesn't work in this situation.

[kipwinger 8,521]

This is the dumbest debate I've ever seen. If punching people deterred anything then Benn wouldn't have hit Z as he'd already been beaten soundly by Ericsson. Soooo stupid.

[kliq 3,755]

Just read somewhere, that the Isles fans are complaining about Tavares taking a beating with Martin out with a broken nose. So I guess Brian Burke was right, when he said if the enforcers are gone the rats will take over we are seeing that now.

Sending a message leaguewide that you can't go after our starplayers without payback (either fight our tough-guy or our tough-guy will go after everyone including the other starplayers). I mean how much longer are people willing to accept that crap ?

I'm sure if a guy like Frazer McLaren tells Benn you either fight me, or I'm going after Seguin, Nischuskin...basically anybody from your team then Benn will start to think maybe it wasn't the best idea to punch Z 2 times in the head, because if he doesn't fight then someone else is toast because of his actions.

i.e 2.500 $ fine for a guy who made 14.000.000 that year.

it's unbelievable and if the league isn't willing to really do anything it should be up to the teams to take matters in their own hands and mean business.

You make it sound like guys are either "Good 'ol fighters, trying to protect their teammates and do whats right, the nicest guys in the bus" or "rats".

That's just not the way it is. Like "The Greek" said, if a guy who takes cheapshots can also fight, whats to stop him from doing it, fighting another fighter isn't going to deter him, that's what he does! Thats what he likes doing! Having a mentality of "you punch Zetterberg, ill punch Seguin, you punch Seguin, ill punch Datsyuk, you punch Datsyuk.........etc. etc. etc. does not solve anything, all it does is create a giant circle of injuries/cheapshots and embarrassment to the sport. The only way to take this bull out of the game is harsher penalties (ie. heavy suspensions/fines).

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Again, there is no guarantee that this will be an effective deterrent. If a guy is a better fighter than anyone on your team, what is stopping him from running your best players?

I never said a $2,500 fine. I said six figures (100,000 or more). I understand the league is limited to fines of $2,500, but a long term suspension could have the exact same effect of huge fine.

Edit: did you really suggest that an enforcer should run seguin if Benn doesn't answer for a cheap shot? You're really just proving why letting players enforce the rules is a terrible idea. If a player refuses to fight, he and his teammates ought to subjected to an on ice assault. Got it.

Usually I think fighters should go after other fighters but if people want to act tough and brave against star-players ...prove it against someone who knows how to throw them too fair is fair. If not, someone else has to pay the price. I'm not talking about assaulting here I'm talking about something that this team has lost and other teams are clearly taking advantage of and I'm sick of seeing that, loved what big E did but their needs to be on ice accountability.

If Benn does this against Johnny Hockey or Monahan Bollig and/or Engelland would more than a few words with him.

kliq that's simply not true back when Pittsburgh signed Steve MacIntyre Derek Engelland - who is a really tough customer by himself - said even he wouldn't be confident dropping it against that guy. But yeah if people believe those great $ 2.500 max fines and Quintal should be the new policy they'd better get used to cheapshots against our starplayers...

Edited February 22, 2015 by frankgrimes

[kliq 3,755]

kliq that's simply not true back when Pittsburgh signed Steve MacIntyre Derek Engelland - who is a really tough customer by himself - said even he wouldn't be confident dropping it against that guy. But yeah if people believe those great $ 2.500 max fines and Quintal should be the new policy they'd better get used to cheapshots against our starplayers...

No it is true Frank. Using one example that may or not be true (I have not seen this quote) does not dismiss my point. Most of these guys are not scared to fight. I'm not denying that having an enforcer wont help in certain situations, but as a whole it is an oldschool out of date stupid philosophy that needs to change. The only way to get rid of it is to have harsher consequences, these guys are not scared of fighting, they would be scared of losing 25% of their salary.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

No it is true Frank. Using one example that may or not be true (I have not seen this quote) does not dismiss my point. Most of these guys are not scared to fight. I'm not denying that having an enforcer wont help in certain situations, but as a whole it is an oldschool out of date stupid philosophy that needs to change. The only way to get rid of it is to have harsher consequences, these guys are not scared of fighting, they would be scared of losing 25% of their salary.

Yeah tried to search that damn quote, but no luck he basically was the fourth guy welcoming him to the new team. Wish I could remember which site it was.

Who is saying that it's out of date ? Some guys who want to turn hockey into the same ***** sport that soccer is (i.e eliminate hitting also and increase the nets whatever...). I really don't care what type of school some thoughts are what I care about is protection for our star-players and like McGrattan put in the summer "these guys should go out there and do whatever they want".

So yeah I'd rather be oldschool than hoping for something that will not happen! (higher fines relatively to a players salary or harsher suspensions).

Edited February 23, 2015 by frankgrimes

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I think at the beginning of the game, every player should stand in a line and the home team chooses his opponent, then they joust to decide whoa going to be aloud to be rats for the game.

And the team that gets to be rats, has to where rat mascot outfits the entire game.

Problem.

Solved.

Edited February 23, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

It's too bad that's all Mcgrattan can do

One look from this face would make Benn pet Zetterberg's head rather than punch it.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

He actually kind of looks like a sabre tooth tiger.

^

Edited February 23, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[chaps80 1,591]

Or maybe Ericsson doesn't punch hard enough? McGrattan would have punched Benn into the next dimension.

Exactly what I was going to say. Maybe Benn just is'nt afraid of E. lol

[chaps80 1,591]

Who was our last true "enforcer"? Brad May in 2009-10? lol

[The Greek 323]

Yeah tried to search that damn quote, but no luck he basically was the fourth guy welcoming him to the new team. Wish I could remember which site it was.

Who is saying that it's out of date ? Some guys who want to turn hockey into the same ***** sport that soccer is (i.e eliminate hitting also and increase the nets whatever...). I really don't care what type of school some thoughts are what I care about is protection for our star-players and like McGrattan put in the summer "these guys should go out there and do whatever they want".

So yeah I'd rather be oldschool than hoping for something that will not happen! (higher fines relatively to a players salary or harsher suspensions).

Where do you get this stuff? No one said anything about banning hits or making the nets bigger.

I know you love fighting, frank; I've made it clear that I dont. However, our positions on that issue don't necessarily dictate our positions on the issue at hand. There is a huge difference between targeting an unsuspecting players head and engaging in a consentual fistfight. There is no debate that the former has no place in hockey, but the latter still has plenty of supporters. All I am asking is that the league punishes headshots severely enough to deter players from targeting the head.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Who was our last true "enforcer"? Brad May in 2009-10? lol

[chaps80 1,591]

Yeah somewhat. I meant a true feared fighter though. It's been awhile.

[kliq 3,755]

Who is saying that it's out of date ? Some guys who want to turn hockey into the same ***** sport that soccer is (i.e eliminate hitting also and increase the nets whatever...). I really don't care what type of school some thoughts are what I care about is protection for our star-players and like McGrattan put in the summer "these guys should go out there and do whatever they want".

So yeah I'd rather be oldschool than hoping for something that will not happen! (higher fines relatively to a players salary or harsher suspensions).

Did I say anything about turning hockey into soccer? Did I say anything about eliminating hitting? Did I say anything about increasing the net size? You are just taking my argument to the extreme in an attempt to dismiss what I am saying.

We are on the same page Frank with protection of our star players, but your philosophy on how to do this (an eye for an eye) does not work. It leads to more injuries and more guys getting hurt. There is a reason why so many players are suing the NHL right now,(I'm sure many of which that were fighters). To protect our star players (all players for that matter, I don't believe the lower end guys don't matter) we need to eliminate cheap shots from the game.

To say that fines/suspensions are not going to happen is silly. Things are moving in this direction, it wont happen over night, but with all the lawsuits and all the new research coming out on head trauma, it's headed in this direction.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

There is no debate that the former has no place in hockey, but the latter still has plenty of supporters. All I am asking is that the league punishes headshots severely enough to deter players from targeting the head.

I'm not disagreeing here but the league won't oblige so what's the solution then. I mean if there's another option I'd like to hear it.

What I'm trying to say here is this: if players have answer for the crap team mates are doing it will create accountability within that locker room because I don't think Seguin would be happy dealing with someone like Orr because Benn didn't want to answer for his cheapshot.

I mean if the fines were harsh and the suspensions lengthy then ok but they aren't.

Just to put things into perspective Avery got 6 games for sloppy seconds quote .. Cowen not even a hearing neither will Benn so should I really have fait in this safety department?

Kliq yeah my bad what I mean is basically protection for our players whether they are stars or not doesn't matter to me. Star players were just used because if the recent incident.

Edited February 23, 2015 by frankgrimes

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

NHL.com front page headline five minutes ago -

"Benn a good run - Stars captain grows into role, steps up with Seguin out"

Edited February 23, 2015 by Hockeytown0001

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

No one would run our guys if they saw this coming

[kipwinger 8,521]

I'm not sure why we're having this debate again. History has shown that being evermore violent in response to things we don't like ALWAYS works out well. Absolutely tons and tons of examples when punching people has effectively helped folks achieve their objectives. That has got to be the most idiotic thing a person can think.

By comparison it makes GMRwings' "I like fighting because it's entertaining" argument both honest, and sensible.

Can all the fighting people just use that argument? That way we don't have to keep restating how intellectually bankrupt this "fighting deters rats" argument is.

I'll even help. "For as long as I can remember, I (state your name here), have enjoyed fighting in hockey. I find it entertaining and exciting. As such, I am willing to tolerate the short and long term health risks that come along with it and believe players who engage in the sport should too."

At least then your position won't be so demonstrably invalided and your justifications so blatantly post hoc.

[Mckinley25 677]

I'm not disagreeing here but the league won't oblige so what's the solution then. I mean if there's another option I'd like to hear it.What I'm trying to say here is this: if players have answer for the crap team mates are doing it will create accountability within that locker room because I don't think Seguin would be happy dealing with someone like Orr because Benn didn't want to answer for his cheapshot.I mean if the fines were harsh and the suspensions lengthy then ok but they aren't.Just to put things into perspective Avery got 6 games for sloppy seconds quote .. Cowen not even a hearing neither will Benn so should I really have fait in this safety department?Kliq yeah my bad what I mean is basically protection for our players whether they are stars or not doesn't matter to me. Star players were just used because if the recent incident.

Frank, I'll agree with you on one thing, Avery getting more games for his retort than blatant head shots is wrong.

I'm not defending Avery, but it illustrates an issue we see everyday where violence is accepted and sex isn't. Look at how censorship is handled on TV, murder is fine on prime time but show a nipple or backside and its a no go.

It's no wonder everybody acts out violently, it's the only socially acceptable way to cope with sexual repression! Well save for Brian MacGratton, I mean his girlfriend is hooooooott!!

[number9 3,297]

One look from this face would make Benn pet Zetterberg's head rather than punch it.

That's nice, it's too bad he can't play hockey