Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Frank, I'll agree with you on one thing, Avery getting more games for his retort than blatant head shots is wrong.

I'm not defending Avery, but it illustrates an issue we see everyday where violence is accepted and sex isn't. Look at how censorship is handled on TV, murder is fine on prime time but show a nipple or backside and its a no go.

It's no wonder everybody acts out violently, it's the only socially acceptable way to cope with sexual repression! Well save for Brian MacGratton, I mean his girlfriend is hooooooott!!

Fully agreed it was unbelievable and so laughable. Same with video games but showing real violence on TV in the news is accepted lol

Yeah his babe is freaking hot.

Edited February 23, 2015 by frankgrimes

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

That's nice, it's too bad he can't play hockey

Is that an enforcer's job? Since when?

That's nice, it's too bad he can't play hockey

BTW, I once dreamed this could be an actual line in Detroit

[Echolalia 2,961]

Fighting after a cheap-shot has exactly one purpose: to fulfill a primal sense of revenge for one's team. It doesn't cure the injured player. It doesn't prevent a cheap shot from happening. It doesn't discourage players from doing it again after they've already committed the cheap-shot. In fact, it has been demonstrated repeatedly that teams with more fighting majors actually tend to have more injuries and stick infarction penalties against, which would suggest that fights actually increase the amount of cheap shots you receive, which is the complete opposite of "keeping the opposition honest". This has been repeatedly demonstrated on separate occasions by separate people (a few sources for the curious: http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-enforcer-fallacy-hockeys-fighting-specialists-don-1442618145, http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/10/7/4804752/does-fighting-deter-other-nasty-business-in-hockey, http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/09/30/the-edmonton-oilers-and-the-new-era-of-the-one-dimensional-fighter/). Its also not that hard to see if you just watch a hockey game. Ericsson fought Benn. Benn still cheap-shotted Zetterberg. Downey was in the lineup when Lapierre injured Lidstrom. Lapierre didn't shy away. In fact, he came back at Downey for more in the third period, looking to crosscheck the guy in the head. Colton Orr was on the ice when Kadri was getting cheap-shotted, and eventually Kadri got into his first fight against Tampa Bay, despite Orr being out there with him. To keep the flies off. And so on, and so on.

So if you're pro-fighting, fine. I understand that it gets the heart racing, and there's a certain primitive sense of satisfaction you get when watching someone get their face beat down after wronging one of our guys. OK. I get that feeling, too, so I understand where the desire to see fights comes from (and keep in mind that I'm not at all pro-fighting. I would rather see fighting removed from the game entirely). But what I won't do is try to justify those emotions by wrongly suggesting that fighting prevents injuries from happening or keeps the rats in line. It just doesn't work that way. And its especially silly to dedicate a roster spot to an enforcer based on this false notion.

[number9 3,297]

Is that an enforcer's job? Since when?

BTW, I once dreamed this could be an actual line in Detroit

Since forever. A true heavy weight can actually play hockey AND protects his stars. Mcgrattan is a scrub, a plug, a pylon, that's happens to be decent at being punched in the face.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Since forever. A true heavy weight can actually play hockey AND protects his stars. Mcgrattan is a scrub, a plug, a pylon, that's happens to be decent at being punched in the face.

Since forever? Heavyweights have never been known for their hockey skills. Guys like Probert or Domi were the exception, not the rule. The majority of other heavyweights in that era, the previous era and the following era couldn't play hockey any better than McGrattan.

I will add that the heavyweight is phased out of the game now, which is why guys like McGrattan are becoming extinct. Not because McGrattan's hockey skills are somehow worse than a Stu Grimson or an Aaron Downey. Those guys couldn't last in today's NHL either.

The heavyweight hasn't changed, but the prevailing thinking has changed.

Edited February 23, 2015 by GMRwings1983

[number9 3,297]

Since forever? Heavyweights have never been known for their hockey skills. Guys like Probert or Domi were the exception, not the rule. The majority of other heavyweights in that era, the previous era and the following era couldn't play hockey any better than McGrattan.

I will add that the heavyweight is phased out of the game now, which is why guys like McGrattan are becoming extinct. Not because McGrattan's hockey skills are somehow worse than a Stu Grimson or an Aaron Downey. Those guys couldn't last in today's NHL either.

The heavyweight hasn't changed, but the prevailing thinking has changed.

Let's put this in the context of the Red Wings. Probert could play hockey. Kocur could play hockey. McCarty could play hockey. Downey could play hockey.

Mcgrattan can't play hockey. That's why he plays for Calgary... oh wait, that's right, he doesn't even play for them anymore.

EDIT: You edited while I was typing. So you actively advocate bringing in a player who's role in the game you admittedly know is going extinct?

Edited February 23, 2015 by number9

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Let's put this in the context of the Red Wings. Probert could play hockey. Kocur could play hockey. McCarty could play hockey. Downey could play hockey.

Mcgrattan can't play hockey. That's why he plays for Calgary... oh wait, that's right, he doesn't even play for them anymore.

EDIT: You edited while I was typing. So you actively advocate bringing in a player who's role in the game you admittedly know is going extinct?

Really?

Downey scored 18 points in over 200 games. That's what you call playing hockey? Grimson scored 39 points in over 700 games. Those guys couldn't play hockey any better than you or me. And they played for the Wings.

Like I said, McGrattan is no different than those guys. The era, however, has changed. Yes, I'd bring one of those guys in. On a 4th line role, not a first line role.

[puckloo39 5,686]

So, back on topic:

Zetterberg not yet ruled completely out for tomorrow, but apparently Benn faces no disciplinary action (per MLive), see the news feed on this site. NHL.com site has an article http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=754428&navid=nhl:topheads praising Benn as growing into his role as captain. Aside from a few homers, the comments support the fact that Benn is guilty of cheap-shotting Z, at best.

Open season on Red Wings' heads continues in the NHL. Ho hum...

Edited February 23, 2015 by puckloo39

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Let's put this in the context of the Red Wings. Probert could play hockey. Kocur could play hockey. McCarty could play hockey. Downey could play hockey.

Mcgrattan can't play hockey. That's why he plays for Calgary... oh wait, that's right, he doesn't even play for them anymore.

EDIT: You edited while I was typing. So you actively advocate bringing in a player who's role in the game you admittedly know is going extinct?

As for guys like McCarty or Probert, yes they could play hockey. But they were the minority of enforcers for their era. Most tough guys of the 80's and 90's couldn't skate across the ice without falling down.

[number9 3,297]

Really?

Downey scored 18 points in over 200 games. That's what you call playing hockey? Grimson scored 39 points in over 700 games. Those guys couldn't play hockey any better than you or me. And they played for the Wings.

Like I said, McGrattan is no different than those guys. The era, however, has changed. Yes, I'd bring one of those guys in. On a 4th line role, not a first line role.

Downey is the closest to a McGrattan we've ever had, and not surprisingly he played only just north of 50 games for us. And he was still a lot better at holding down a fourth line than Mcgrattan,

You admit the era has changed, yet you still want a guy from a lost era? That's backwards logic.

GMR I am 110% a fighting fan. If I could transport the league back to 1990 I would in a heartbeat. That being said, you and others on this forum continually drive me into the arms of anti-fighters because of your continual illogical need to promote any scrub who fights. I'm all for toughness, and true enforcers, but not at the sacrifice of hockey. Fighting is a secondary need at best. Promoting these guys who literally have no skills outside of fighting not only besmirches the name of true enforcers in general, but it feeds the anti-fighters ammo. Guys like Mcgrattan have no place in this game unless they can actually engage in regular play.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Downey is the closest to a McGrattan we've ever had, and not surprisingly he played only just north of 50 games for us. And he was still a lot better at holding down a fourth line than Mcgrattan,

You admit the era has changed, yet you still want a guy from a lost era? That's backwards logic.

GMR I am 110% a fighting fan. If I could transport the league back to 1990 I would in a heartbeat. That being said, you and others on this forum continually drive me into the arms of anti-fighters because of your continual illogical need to promote any scrub who fights. I'm all for toughness, and true enforcers, but not at the sacrifice of hockey. Fighting is a secondary need at best. Promoting these guys who literally have no skills outside of fighting not only besmirches the name of true enforcers in general, but it feeds the anti-fighters ammo. Guys like Mcgrattan have no place in this game unless they can actually engage in regular play.

You and I agree the era has changed. I'm not hard to understand. I wish it was the older era of my youth, when hockey had more fights, more even strength goals and worse goalies. These are the biggest reasons for why I don't watch the game that much anymore.

But I still don't agree with you as to what a "true enforcer" was. I agree with what it is now, but it always was an untalented player who can't skate or score, but can fight. Like I said, a Probert or Domi were the exceptions to this stereotype. McGrattan is like that superhero or action hero you liked when you were a kid, but isn't relevant anymore. He reminds me of a better time in hockey when soft euros and cheap shot artists were less likely to be on a 4th line than an enforcer.

Edited February 23, 2015 by GMRwings1983

[number9 3,297]

You and I agree the era has changed. I'm not hard to understand. I wish it was the older era of my youth, when hockey had more fights, more even strength goals and worse goalies. These are the biggest reasons for why I don't watch the game that much anymore.

But I still don't agree with you as to what a "true enforcer" was. I agree with what it is now, but it always was an untalented player who can't skate or score, but can fight. Like I said, a Probert or Domi were the exceptions to this stereotype.

Mcarty, Kocur, Prust, Downie, Roussel, Wilson, Clarkson, Martin, Boll, Neil

There are plenty of players who can play and also police still, Mcgrattan isn't one of them.

Boroweicki, Peluso, Kassian

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Mcarty, Kocur, Prust, Downie, Roussel, Wilson, Clarkson, Martin, Boll, Neil

There are plenty of players who can play and also police still, Mcgrattan isn't one of them.

Boroweicki, Peluso, Kassian

Most of those guys aren't top enforcers and Kocur is retired last I checked. Today's era is middleweights who can fight and play hockey. The heavies who do fight aren't in the same league fighting wise from their predecessors.

[number9 3,297]

Most of those guys aren't top enforcers and Kocur is retired last I checked. Today's era is middleweights who can fight and play hockey. The heavies who do fight aren't in the same league fighting wise from their predecessors.

And yet you advocate a heavy weight who can't play hockey????

Clifford, Jackman

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

And yet you advocate a heavy weight who can't play hockey????

Yes. On a 4th line role. You make it sound like I want these players to take roster spots away from Crosby, Stamkos and Datsyuk. Far from it. The worst forwards play on the 4th line, don't they? I'd have a guy in there who can play a role the other players can't play.

[number9 3,297]

Thorburn, Crombeen, Glass

Yes. On a 4th line role. You make it sound like I want these players to take roster spots away from Crosby, Stamkos and Datsyuk. Far from it. The worst forwards play on the 4th line, don't they? I'd have a guy in there who can play a role the other players can't play.

No, don't exaggerate my stance. I don't think McGrattan deserves a 4th line role. He can't even hold a 4th line role with Calgary, how in gods name would he deserve one here?

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Thorburn, Crombeen, Glass

No, don't exaggerate my stance. I don't think McGrattan deserves a 4th line role. He can't even hold a 4th line role with Calgary, how in gods name would he deserve one here?

Not real heavies. But I'll take them on my roster over "Mr. Useless", Joakim Andersson.

[number9 3,297]

Not real heavies. But I'll take them on my roster over "Mr. Useless", Joakim Andersson.

Andersson plays better hockey than Mcgattan. Point moot.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Andersson plays better hockey than Mcgattan. Point moot.

But he can't hit or fight and he doesn't play hockey well enough to play on a higher line. McGrattan does his role better than Andersson does his (whatever Andersson's role is)

And while we're on this topic, I don't see anything wrong with Ericsson fighting. Yeah, he can get hurt, but there are better D-men than him who occasionally drop the gloves. He did the right thing stepping in. I wish more of our players would do that.

[number9 3,297]

But he can't hit or fight and he doesn't play hockey well enough to play on a higher line. McGrattan does his role better than Andersson does his (whatever Andersson's role is)

And while we're on this topic, I don't see anything wrong with Ericsson fighting. Yeah, he can get hurt, but there are better D-men than him who occasionally drop the gloves. He did the right thing stepping in. I wish more of our players would do that.

Neither does Mcgrattan. In fact Mcgrattan was so good at his role he got demoted to the AHL on a teams chalked with AHLers.

Hell, I'd call up Callahan or AA before signing Mcgrat. I'm all for tough guys, but not for the sake of tough guys. That's idiotic.

Edited February 23, 2015 by number9

[kipwinger 8,496]

But he can't hit or fight and he doesn't play hockey well enough to play on a higher line. McGrattan does his role better than Andersson does his (whatever Andersson's role is)

And while we're on this topic, I don't see anything wrong with Ericsson fighting. Yeah, he can get hurt, but there are better D-men than him who occasionally drop the gloves. He did the right thing stepping in. I wish more of our players would do that.

I don't want to say anything about fighting, because it seems like you guys have got that covered. However, I do want to explain what Andersson's role it. Andersson's role is to be good enough defensively, that he (and the two other fourth line guys who are also good defensively) can be matched up against higher opposing lines, so that our scoring lines can take advantage of the mismatch. Which is exactly how Babs uses Andersson (and t he fourth line in general). Traditionally people though of the fourth line as an energy line. Our fourth line is a match up line. And so Andersson's job is to be good enough, defensively, to play on a higher line (to use your phrase).

My 2 Cents.

Edited February 23, 2015 by kipwinger

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

So, back on topic:

Zetterberg not yet ruled completely out for tomorrow, but apparently Benn faces no disciplinary action (per MLive), see the news feed on this site. NHL.com site has an article http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=754428&navid=nhl:topheads praising Benn as growing into his role as captain. Aside from a few homers, the comments support the fact that Benn is guilty of cheap-shotting Z, at best.

Open season on Red Wings' heads continues in the NHL. Ho hum...

Of course he won't face discipline. Shea Weber went WWE on Zetterberg's head and broke his helmet in the process and got fined the change under the seat of his car.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Next time we should all throw flowers on the ice with love letters to Benn..Then KP and the likes would be happy.

Edited February 23, 2015 by hillbillywingsfan

[kipwinger 8,496]

Next time we should all throw flowers on the ice with love letters to Benn..Then KP and the likes would be happy.

Not as happy as this post just made me. Because if you, and this drivel, are the opposition then I know I'm going to win. I know that eventually my point of view will carry the day because the people arguing against me say things like this ^^^^^^^.

If I had my way, you'd be the face of the pro-fighting crowd. I'd put you on TV and let you write opinion pieces on TSN. Then I'd follow your silly arguments with the brain trauma experts, and the analytics guys, and the former players with behavior issues, and the coaches who don't use enforcers.

I'd let you say exactly what you (and Frank) always say, and then I'd let the sensible people say what they've got to say, and all the undecided people would laugh at how silly you sound. How crazy your position is. And you'd lose. Because you're on the wrong side of history and your position isn't clever enough to overcome that deficiency.

So keep saying what you say. I mean it. Keep trying to convince people with crap like this.

And I'll win and you'll lose in no time at all.

[kipwinger 8,496]

I believe the NFL has a much larger issue at hand with brain trauma/debilitating injuries/prescription med abuse/domestic abuse than the NHL.

The HBO special on the Chicago Bears 1985 Super Bowl team is the tip of the iceberg.

I don't feel qualified to say whether one sport is worse than the other with regards to causing brain injuries. They both demonstrably have a serious issue with it. I do, however, feel that ANY sports league should absolutely prioritize the health and safety of their players. One easy way to do that, in hockey, is to take unnecessary (and avoidable) hits to the head out of the game. And one very easy way to do that is to remove fighting by removing the "so called" need for it...increase penalties for serious infractions to the point where players err on the side of caution.

Caution. The operable word. Heaven forbid human beings in the 21st Century learn how to enjoy sports where players must be cautious of one another.