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Datsyukian-Deke

Losing Streak affecting Babcock's Decision?

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I don't expect him to win ever single year, but you guys are downplaying some of the really great teams he had and lost with. His teams were not mediocre in 2005 or 2009. I get irritated when people act like he's had nothing to work with. He's had good, to great teams since joining the wings. He's got one cup. He's not such a super duper coach that its anathema to even consider life after Babcock.

Bowman had great teams in 95 96 99 00 and 01 and didn't win. He used grinders with Hall of Fame centers and had Fedorov on defense for awhile. He must suck too

Edited by DickieDunn

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Simple fact is this team is good but the chemistry is off and we are still lacking defense. A patch and plug on a tire with 2/32 left of tread will only hold up so well doing 80 mph down the freeway with only 50 cents of change in your pocket and the toll ahead is $1.00 while your friends are scrambling to find the remaining change

Will you find the right change in time, will you stop for the toll and not be able to proceed due to lacking, or do ya take the change of not paying the toll and be fined later on? Same time will the tire hold up or will it blow

Edited by Rivalred

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Simple fact is this team is good but the chemistry is off and we are still lacking defense. A patch and plug on a tire with 2/32 left of tread will only hold up so well doing 80 mph down the freeway with only 50 cents of change in your pocket and the toll ahead is $1.00 while your friends are scrambling to find the remaining change

Will you find the right change in time, will you stop for the toll and not be able to proceed due to lacking, or do ya take the change of not paying the toll and be fined later on? Same time will the tire hold up or will it blow

Sheesh, did someone have a bad dream last night? :)

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Bowman had great teams in 95 96 99 00 and 01 and didn't win. He used grinders with Hall of Fame centers and had Fedorov on defense for awhile. He must suck too

If Babs had eleventy billion cups I'd cut him some slack too.

Edited by kipwinger

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Bowman had great teams in 95 96 99 00 and 01 and didn't win. He used grinders with Hall of Fame centers and had Fedorov on defense for awhile. He must suck too

Lets also not forget that Bowman had an infinite payroll to work with, the modern day coach has to worry about the cap.

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Bowman had great teams in 95 96 99 00 and 01 and didn't win. He used grinders with Hall of Fame centers and had Fedorov on defense for awhile. He must suck too

Lets also not forget that Bowman had an infinite payroll to work with, the modern day coach has to worry about the cap.

The coach doesn't have to worry about that it's the GM. A coach can only work with the roster he's been given by his GM. I mean Bowman also had the pleasure of working for - back tghen - by far best and most active GM in the game. A luxury Babs sadly doesn't have

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Bowman had great teams in 95 96 99 00 and 01 and didn't win. He used grinders with Hall of Fame centers and had Fedorov on defense for awhile. He must suck too

Lets also not forget that Bowman had an infinite payroll to work with, the modern day coach has to worry about the cap.

The coach doesn't have to worry about that it's the GM. A coach can only work with the roster he's been given by his GM. I mean Bowman also had the pleasure of working for - back tghen - by far best and most active GM in the game. A luxury Babs sadly doesn't have

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The coach doesn't have to worry about that it's the GM. A coach can only work with the roster he's been given by his GM. I mean Bowman also had the pleasure of working for - back tghen - by far best and most active GM in the game. A luxury Babs sadly doesn't have

I find it odd that you're lamenting the job the GM has done in a year where we've younger, bigger, more skilled, and healthier than we've been in years. And in the same year where he went out, got the coach exactly what he wanted at the trade deadline, and those two players are playing better than anybody on the team (other than Abby).

What else do you want Holland to do? Other than coach and/or play the actual games himself, I think he's done a pretty good job.

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I find it odd that you're lamenting the job the GM has done in a year where we've younger, bigger, more skilled, and healthier than we've been in years. And in the same year where he went out, got the coach exactly what he wanted at the trade deadline, and those two players are playing better than anybody on the team (other than Abby).

What else do you want Holland to do? Other than coach and/or play the actual games himself, I think he's done a pretty good job.

He should've done all that earlier, cheaper and with better players! Edited by mvanpop

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The coach doesn't have to worry about that it's the GM. A coach can only work with the roster he's been given by his GM. I mean Bowman also had the pleasure of working for - back tghen - by far best and most active GM in the game. A luxury Babs sadly doesn't have

I agree with you, and by worry I meant Babs has to deal with not being able to have as many top players due to the cap.

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I agree with you, and by worry I meant Babs has to deal with not being able to have as many top players due to the cap.

What do you mean? We're in excellent cap condition. Babs doesn't have "top players" because the ones we had got old, and the ones we will have aren't old enough yet. If Kenny had wanted to, he likely could have signed a bunch of second tier stars (e.g. Vanek, Moulson, etc.), we definitely have the space. But legit "top talent" doesn't really hit the market much, and as previously mentioned our home grown "top talent" is either too old, or too young, currently.

And just to be optimistic, I'd like to point out that Tatar AND Nyquist are both coming off freshman and sophomore seasons which rival or surpass the freshman and sophomore seasons that Datsyuk and Zetterberg put up. So there's plenty of reason to believe we've got top players coming (in addition to all the first rate prospects we've got coming too).

Contrary to the narrative, Mike Babcock has had (and will have again) plenty of talent to work with as coach of the Red Wings.

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What do you mean? We're in excellent cap condition. Babs doesn't have "top players" because the ones we had got old, and the ones we will have aren't old enough yet. If Kenny had wanted to, he likely could have signed a bunch of second tier stars (e.g. Vanek, Moulson, etc.), we definitely have the space. But legit "top talent" doesn't really hit the market much, and as previously mentioned our home grown "top talent" is either too old, or too young, currently.

And just to be optimistic, I'd like to point out that Tatar AND Nyquist are both coming off freshman and sophomore seasons which rival or surpass the freshman and sophomore seasons that Datsyuk and Zetterberg put up. So there's plenty of reason to believe we've got top players coming (in addition to all the first rate prospects we've got coming too).

Contrary to the narrative, Mike Babcock has had (and will have again) plenty of talent to work with as coach of the Red Wings.

You're right that he's had talent. My point was that in comparison to Bowman,Babcock hasn't had the consistent veteran talent coming in every year. Before the cap the Wings would be buying ready made talent and wouldn't have to wait on players to develop. While suffering through the growing pains. I don't think think that it has impacted his ability as a coach just the team record.

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You're right that he's had talent. My point was that in comparison to Bowman,Babcock hasn't had the consistent veteran talent coming in every year. Before the cap the Wings would be buying ready made talent and wouldn't have to wait on players to develop. While suffering through the growing pains. I don't think think that it has impacted his ability as a coach just the team record.

I agree with most of that. But I don't really know why people insist on comparing Babcock to Bowman anyway. It's an apples to oranges comparison. God knows I'm more critical of Babcock's image than most, but even so I'll readily admit that comparing him to the most successful coach of all time, in the pre-cap world, with teams full of the greatest talent in the game's history...is bulls***. It yields nothing useful. Babcock should be compared to his peers. By which standard he's better than most, about the same as others, and less good than a couple.

Edited by kipwinger

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Who do you feel is equal to, or a better coach, or who would you like to see behind the Wings bench?

I'll take a guess that he might mean Quenneville and Hitchcock as better or equal to Babcock. But I'm just guessing.

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I agree with you, and by worry I meant Babs has to deal with not being able to have as many top players due to the cap.

which is a shame because everyone has seens what this guy has been able to do with an unbelievable team Canada roster. People can talk about how loaded they were all day long but team USA and team Sweden weren't walkovers either and they didn't get the job done Babcock and The Captain did in an amazing fashion, Sweden had no chance in the finals.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Who do you feel is equal to, or a better coach, or who would you like to see behind the Wings bench?

I'd like to see Blashill behind the bench. Or Dave Tippett, if Phoenix goes in a different direction. I like Blashill because he's already familiar with the talent, they've bought into his scheme, he's got report with the guys, and he's won with them. I like Tippett because he's got about 20 fewer career wins than Babs, with about one twentieth the amount of talent. Tippett gets more out of less than anyone in the league and I"d love to see what he could do with a payroll, some stability, and some quality hockey players.

When it comes to who is better, the results speak for themselves. Quenneville, Hitch, and Sutter have credentials that surpass Babs. Laviollete and Julien are in the same ballpark. Vignault, Trotz, Tippet, and Mclellan are nipping at his heals.

Edit: I would add that this is a rough ranking of guys based on a few variables (Cups, finals appearances, career wins). Ideally you'd rank these guys on a few other factors as well. Notably, long playoff runs, President's trophy wins, division wins, injuries, quality of team, etc. As all make a major difference in either A) determining who is best, or B) identifying legit reasons why they've struggled. I just don't have the time to do it though, and I suspect you'd probably end up with the same guys (in a slightly different order) anyway.

Edited by kipwinger

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