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Opinion: Petr Mrazek should be starting Game 1

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Why do I need to PM you? Just explain whats wrong with what I'm saying.

Vladdy (a mod) already informed you in the original thread to take this to PM. Don't understand what more you need than that. This topic is about hockey goalies, not bias within science.

Why don't you just PM me if you wanna talk about it? you keep bringing it up but never PM me lol

Edited by number9

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Would you like the Gretzky example again? Ok, here it is.

Wayne Gretzky's parents probably thought he was the best player on whatever team he was on. Most parents might have a tendency to think their kid is the best player on the team. That's a bias. It's still a bias if Gretzky's parents think that he's the best due to him being their child. But in their case, he really was the best player on the team. Their bias did not mean what they thought about Wayne being the best player was wrong.

Got it?


Vladdy (a mod) already informed you in the original thread to take this to PM. Don't understand what more you need than that. This topic is about hockey goalies, not bias within science.

Why don't you just PM me if you wanna talk about it? you keep bringing it up but never PM me lol

It still is about hockey goalies, but I'm using an analogy to make my point about biases in regards to people's opinions of the Red Wings Goalies.

People have biases in favor of Mrazek. People have biases in favor of Howie. People have biases against Mrazek, People have biases against Howie. People having biases doesn't necessitate that what they are saying is wrong.

PM me why the analogy doesn't work if you don't want to say it here.

And I'm not talking about biases within science right now. There are biases outside of science. I don't know why you're so hung up on that.

Edited by roboturner

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Would you like the Gretzky example again? Ok, here it is.

Wayne Gretzky's parents probably, thought he was the best player on whatever team he was on. Most parents might have a tendency to think their kid is the best player on the team. That's a bias. It's still a bias if Gretzky's parents think that he's the best due to him being their child. But in their case, he really was the best player on the team. Their bias did not mean what they thought about Wayne being the best player was wrong.

Got it?

It still is about hockey goalies, but I'm using an analogy to make my point about biases in regards to people's opinions of the Red Wings Goalies. Then PM me why the analogy doesn't work if you don't want to say it here.

This has zero relation to (just like you pen analogy) to anything related to bias within scientific study, other than your incorporation of the general theme of bias.

Again, stop trying to discuss this within a hockey forum. If you would like to discuss it take it to PM. Not Hard.

Anyway, with Mrazek being pulled, I'd like to see Howard get the next start, maybe another opportunity to regain his confidence.

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Still no PM :sleepy:

People have biases in favor of Mrazek. People have biases in favor of Howie. People have biases against Mrazek, People have biases against Howie.

You understand that you can't say that anybody has an anti-Howard agenda without implying they have a bias right? It's relevant. Get over it.

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I love the tangents LGW goes on sometimes. I feel like I'm one of the few that realize both goalies are not playing up to snuff but I think it has more to do with being hung out to try and blowing their confidence.

I honestly thing our goaltending problems come down to a much bigger problem of just buckling down and playing a good team game. An easy example was the 4-0 Tampa game. Detroit buckled down and didn't give them any grade a chances. Against the Isles tonight we gave up way to many good chances and a terrible PK. Yes not every goal was unstoppable but the team in front of him sure didn't help them out.

Overall this isn't a 1 man problem, it's a team problem. If we lock it down and actually help our goalies out which our team has not been doing, they can start gaining their confidence back and start making the big saves when we need them.

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Aw f*** it, Jimmy sucks, Petr is great! The reason Petr gave up 4 goals today is becuase Jimmy was shining a mirror in his eyes! If Jimmy would have made that big save when we needed it, we would've gotten the loser point at least!

No. It was a voodoo doll. Get your facts straight.

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I love the tangents LGW goes on sometimes. I feel like I'm one of the few that realize both goalies are not playing up to snuff but I think it has more to do with being hung out to try and blowing their confidence.

I honestly thing our goaltending problems come down to a much bigger problem of just buckling down and playing a good team game. An easy example was the 4-0 Tampa game. Detroit buckled down and didn't give them any grade a chances. Against the Isles tonight we gave up way to many good chances and a terrible PK. Yes not every goal was unstoppable but the team in front of him sure didn't help them out.

Overall this isn't a 1 man problem, it's a team problem. If we lock it down and actually help our goalies out which our team has not been doing, they can start gaining their confidence back and start making the big saves when we need them.

Your right. I'd say its Defense and Nyquist playing bad right now to pick a few problems. Maybe March was just that type of Month, like December was (losing the six straight game slide). I still think there is something wrong with Howard though, perhaps he is still hurt who knows. I'd roll with Mrazek these next two games. Nothing against Howard, I just still feel more confident In Mrazek. Even after todays game. But I guess I'll be called a Howard hater for choosing Mrazek.

Edited by Jericho613

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I love the tangents LGW goes on sometimes. I feel like I'm one of the few that realize both goalies are not playing up to snuff but I think it has more to do with being hung out to try and blowing their confidence.

I honestly thing our goaltending problems come down to a much bigger problem of just buckling down and playing a good team game. An easy example was the 4-0 Tampa game. Detroit buckled down and didn't give them any grade a chances. Against the Isles tonight we gave up way to many good chances and a terrible PK. Yes not every goal was unstoppable but the team in front of him sure didn't help them out.

Overall this isn't a 1 man problem, it's a team problem. If we lock it down and actually help our goalies out which our team has not been doing, they can start gaining their confidence back and start making the big saves when we need them.

Great posting +1

I think the team needs more of a pack mentality: lose as a team and win as a team but moreso than that they need a never quit and go down swinging attitude. At least now almost everyone has ssen that this bad stretch isn't the fault of any of the goaltenders and a much bigger problem than some would have anticipated at the end of the day it comes down to one thing: the defense needs to play a whole lot better. Hanging a rookie goalie out to dry isn't going to help him build confidence and round out his game...not playing a tight defensive game when the starter is coming back from an injury is also a bad idea, so yeah like I've said this isn't the goaltenders fault. Wings need to find some consistency and pre playoff mode in a hurry.

As much as it pains me to type that I think Nyquist should sit for a game or two.

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I love the tangents LGW goes on sometimes. I feel like I'm one of the few that realize both goalies are not playing up to snuff but I think it has more to do with being hung out to try and blowing their confidence.

I honestly thing our goaltending problems come down to a much bigger problem of just buckling down and playing a good team game. An easy example was the 4-0 Tampa game. Detroit buckled down and didn't give them any grade a chances. Against the Isles tonight we gave up way to many good chances and a terrible PK. Yes not every goal was unstoppable but the team in front of him sure didn't help them out.

Overall this isn't a 1 man problem, it's a team problem. If we lock it down and actually help our goalies out which our team has not been doing, they can start gaining their confidence back and start making the big saves when we need them.

The last three losses have all had multiple soft goals. You can't lock down every game. There's going to be mistakes, breakdowns, bad bounces...teams are going to get chances. Goalies have to make some tough saves, and they most definitely should be making the easy ones.

Arizona hardly had any more chances than TB, but nothing seemed to hit Jimmy that night; maybe his positioning was off; then he gave up a buttery soft OT goal. Half the goals in SJ were weak. 2 of Mrazek's today were, and a 3rd was a little iffy. Neither the Sharks nor Islanders had an unusually high number of good chances. Not all the goals were bad and we wouldn't have had shutouts, but you don't need a shutout to win. With as much luck as we've had with our own scoring lately, we should have gotten more than 3 points out of the last 4 games. And we most likely would have if we had gotten decent goaltending.

I agree the tangents can get ridiculous at times, and goaltending is not the only problem with the team. But this last week it has been by far the biggest, and all the ranting is about as justified as it'll ever be.

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Mrazek isn't better than Howard as of now. He might get there, he might not.

Howard is an average #1. He's paid like an average #1.

Howard is either limited by a bad groin or it's mental and he just doesn't trust it to hold up. That is his problem.

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Great posting +1

I think the team needs more of a pack mentality: lose as a team and win as a team but moreso than that they need a never quit and go down swinging attitude. At least now almost everyone has ssen that this bad stretch isn't the fault of any of the goaltenders and a much bigger problem than some would have anticipated at the end of the day it comes down to one thing: the defense needs to play a whole lot better. Hanging a rookie goalie out to dry isn't going to help him build confidence and round out his game...not playing a tight defensive game when the starter is coming back from an injury is also a bad idea, so yeah like I've said this isn't the goaltender

s fault. Wings need to find some consistency and pre playoff mode in a hurry.

As much as it pains me to type that I thi

nk Nyquist should sit for a game or two.

Then grimes drops the mic and walks off stage; spot on. May I add: make it more of a competition between Howard and Mrazek. As a goalie, the relationship between the members of a tandem is one of respectful competition. Neither are playing well on a consistent basis. What do we have to lose by rotating goalies?

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The last three losses have all had multiple soft goals. You can't lock down every game. There's going to be mistakes, breakdowns, bad bounces...teams are going to get chances. Goalies have to make some tough saves, and they most definitely should be making the easy ones.

Arizona hardly had any more chances than TB, but nothing seemed to hit Jimmy that night; maybe his positioning was off; then he gave up a buttery soft OT goal. Half the goals in SJ were weak. 2 of Mrazek's today were, and a 3rd was a little iffy. Neither the Sharks nor Islanders had an unusually high number of good chances. Not all the goals were bad and we wouldn't have had shutouts, but you don't need a shutout to win. With as much luck as we've had with our own scoring lately, we should have gotten more than 3 points out of the last 4 games. And we most likely would have if we had gotten decent goaltending.

I agree the tangents can get ridiculous at times, and goaltending is not the only problem with the team. But this last week it has been by far the biggest, and all the ranting is about as justified as it'll ever be.

I agree that our goalies haven't been good, I think I even said it. I just think on top of bad goaltending were hanging them out to dry as well. When you compile everything that's just a recipe for disaster (which is what has happened).

There have been a lot of bad goals over this stretch but I think it's getting to the point that every goa scored against us now is a soft goal. Example I've seen Howard getting a lot of slack for last night for not coming up with the big save. To hang out a goalie, and have one of his first shots come as a Shorthanded breakaway is not helping out our goalie.

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Will tell everyone one thing, we currently don't have a number one who goalie who can steal games on a consistent basis. Of course, turnovers and the defense has helped much either

This is the unfortunate truth right now. Howard doesn't have his head screwed on straight lately and Mrazek is a promising rookie with plenty of rookie problems. Either way we go is likely to lead to issues, especially with the way the D has been playing. This team is going to have to really tighten up around their goalies if anything good is going to happen in the playoffs. But I'm not holding my breath. We shouldn't be disappointed if this turns into another learning year for this young team. There's no shame in that.

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I agree that our goalies haven't been good, I think I even said it. I just think on top of bad goaltending were hanging them out to dry as well. When you compile everything that's just a recipe for disaster (which is what has happened).

There have been a lot of bad goals over this stretch but I think it's getting to the point that every goa scored against us now is a soft goal. Example I've seen Howard getting a lot of slack for last night for not coming up with the big save. To hang out a goalie, and have one of his first shots come as a Shorthanded breakaway is not helping out our goalie.

Aside from some noted Howard bashers, who would bash him regardless, no one was saying anything about Howard.

What I'm saying is scoring chances are going to happen. Giving up a breakaway or a 2 on 1 doesn't mean the defense sucked. The Islanders did not have many really good scoring chances yesterday. Nor did SJ or Phoenix. Some, but not any ridiculous amount. If the only goals we'd allowed in those games were on those chances, we probably win those games and no one would be talking about poor goaltending or poor defense. If we're up 3-0 and Howie lets one in on a breakaway, no one would be complaining about not getting the big save.

Unlike scoring chances, bad goals are not something that happen every game around the league. Seeing 6-7 of them in 3 of our last 4 games is worth talking about.

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Aside from some noted Howard bashers, who would bash him regardless, no one was saying anything about Howard.

What I'm saying is scoring chances are going to happen. Giving up a breakaway or a 2 on 1 doesn't mean the defense sucked. The Islanders did not have many really good scoring chances yesterday. Nor did SJ or Phoenix. Some, but not any ridiculous amount. If the only goals we'd allowed in those games were on those chances, we probably win those games and no one would be talking about poor goaltending or poor defense. If we're up 3-0 and Howie lets one in on a breakaway, no one would be complaining about not getting the big save.

Unlike scoring chances, bad goals are not something that happen every game around the league. Seeing 6-7 of them in 3 of our last 4 games is worth talking about.

First off I think your confusing what I mean about tangent, I was talkng about the page or two of guys saying "you on me" and "no you pm me" lol

As far as what I eas saying I agree that our goalies have been awful, but our team as awhile has been awful with keeping the puck out. I think if you look through all the stats it will all coincide with our lack off puck possession which has also stemmed from our terrible ability to win face offs during this stretch.

Once again the goalies have been bad, but I think it's also becoming even more glaring because our team D has been terrible too.

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...

As far as what I eas saying I agree that our goalies have been awful, but our team as awhile has been awful with keeping the puck out. I think if you look through all the stats it will all coincide with our lack off puck possession which has also stemmed from our terrible ability to win face offs during this stretch.

Once again the goalies have been bad, but I think it's also becoming even more glaring because our team D has been terrible too.

I get what you're saying, and certainly more goals allowed can make a goalie look worse even if they're the result of poor defense. But if anything, I think it's more the poor goaltending making the defense look worse. The defense hasn't been amazing or anything, but it's been a far cry from terrible. Certainly good enough to win. Take out the weak goals and you're left with 2 or 3 goals against in each of those games. Depending on how lenient (or not) you want to be with the "iffy" goals, that's slightly above to slightly below average. I sure don't think anyone would be talking about "terrible" defense.

Some stats from war-on-ice:

Wings are 2nd in the league in scoring chances against/60 - all situations: 23.3. Fla leads with 22.5. I didn't actually calculate it, but the league average looks to be around 26ish.

Looking at our last 7 games SCA:

Fla - 15 (23.4)

TB - 24 (28.9)

StL - 15 (27.3)

Ari - 26 (25.6)

SJ - 17 (28.9)

TB - 22 (28.9)

NYI - 21 (32.8)

# in parentheses is average SCF60/all situations.

So actually above average every game except Arizona (which surprised me, since we were pretty dominant in possession that game). Of course, not all scoring chances are equal even by war-on-ice's definition. But bottom line, the defense has not been bad lately.

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