kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 That Jamie Lee Curtis is a real man's man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings87 1,290 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 He wasn't JUST talking about fighting. He explicitly said "if other teams won't accept the fight start it anyways". Fighting someone when they don't want to fight is called "attacking" them. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that attacking someone, with or without a stick, should probably not be allowed in any sport, at any time. It's a little hard to take Frank seriously when he opens calls for attacking players on the ice, and then tries to condemn something which is entirely the same in spirit. Don't attack people. It's af****** sport. I can't believe I have to explain/defend that position. Don't get me wrong I agree with you entirely. I think where we differ is in the interpretation of Frank's comments, not in the definition of attack. I'm interpreting his comments as, starting a fight or skirmish in an in game situation. Bordering on instigating, but not going as far as real bodily injury. However I can't for certain know what he meant. What we see above is a mugging that has nothing to do with hockey and has no place in the game or out of the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 Apparently there is a warrant out for his arrest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Don't get me wrong I agree with you entirely. I think where we differ is in the interpretation of Frank's comments, not in the definition of attack. I'm interpreting his comments as, starting a fight or skirmish in an in game situation. Bordering on instigating, but not going as far as real bodily injury. However I can't for certain know what he meant. What we see above is a mugging that has nothing to do with hockey and has no place in the game or out of the game. Nailed it perfectly, if someone cheapshots, runs a smaller guy or takes advantage of starplayers who won't fight then the guy is tough enough to fight a tough guy. If he declines screw the instigator rule, it's called on ice policy and thankfully most people get it. Benn was tough enough to punch Z 4 times so he is also tough enough to go with McGrattan, Orr... Warrant is well deserved, guy should try to find the nearest airport and fly to Canada asap otherwise it's jail time for him. Edited March 31, 2015 by frankgrimes 1 hillbillywingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillbillywingsfan 792 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) You've regularly argued that goons like Orr and McLaren should attack other players whether they want to fight or not. For no other reason than to "entertain the fans". I'm not sure your condemnation is exactly credible. "If I'm Nonis I'd call up Orr, McLaren, Devane and Biggs tell them to do whatever it takes to give the fans some enjoyment for their money and if other teams won't accept the fight start it anyways, there are too many rats running around and fans want entertainment." - Frankgrimes oh god are you going to really use this as your soapbox? give it a rest already..you hate fighters...we get it. ad nauseam Edited March 31, 2015 by hillbillywingsfan 1 frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mckinley25 677 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 oh god are you going to really use this as your soapbox? give it a rest already..you hate fighters...we get it. ad nauseam To be fair, the topic is often brought up, it's relevant, and Kip's criticisms are typically far more constructive than the pro fighting crowd. It's an important discussion and certainly has as much merit as the constant paper thin goalie bashing rhetoric that's tossed around like parade candy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mckinley25 677 Report post Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) double post, too many amphetamines I suppose Edited March 31, 2015 by Mckinley25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sleepwalker 512 Report post Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Hey Frank, How do you know helmersson didn't run or cheapshot, or otherwise take advantage of one of the other teams guys? (and maybe that's why they went after him) You are having a completely emotional reaction based on a three second video clip. You don't actually have any clue what precipitated this incident. Edited April 1, 2015 by sleepwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted April 1, 2015 Nailed it perfectly, if someone cheapshots, runs a smaller guy or takes advantage of starplayers who won't fight then the guy is tough enough to fight a tough guy. If he declines screw the instigator rule, it's called on ice policy and thankfully most people get it. Benn was tough enough to punch Z 4 times so he is also tough enough to go with McGrattan, Orr... Warrant is well deserved, guy should try to find the nearest airport and fly to Canada asap otherwise it's jail time for him. What fighting doesn't do, particularly using goons: Stop cheap shots. Keep people "honest." Punish the rats most of the time. What fighting does: Entertains the fans who like fighting. Give jobs to guys who can't play hockey but can punch. Gives players and fans the satisfaction of some old school justice when the rat is caught. That last part is the only real benefit from fighting, and it's why fighting shouldn't be banned, but it's reactionary to the issue, it doesn't prevent anything. Beyond that, when every team had a goon or three, the Matt Cooks of the world still wouldn't necessarily get a beat down because they had a goon on their team whose job it was to protect them. Probert fighting Rob Ray or Tie Domi was fun to watch, but that fight didn't solve a slash to one of the Wings' skill players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted April 2, 2015 Hey Frank, How do you know helmersson didn't run or cheapshot, or otherwise take advantage of one of the other teams guys? (and maybe that's why they went after him) You are having a completely emotional reaction based on a three second video clip. You don't actually have any clue what precipitated this incident. Helmersson checked him hard prior to the last game. So if it's that big of a deal for Deveaux check him too but what he did was pure assault, period. Guy could end up with jail time and a lifetime can in the SEL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sleepwalker 512 Report post Posted April 2, 2015 So I take it you also think McCarty should be locked up in federal prison for felony assault as well then? If not, please explain why. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted April 2, 2015 I have no desire nor interest to discuss this any further, I've made my point clear, period. 1 hillbillywingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sleepwalker 512 Report post Posted April 2, 2015 Translation: "I admit my hypocrisy, and bow out now...." 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted April 3, 2015 What would it accomplish? He didn't even injure the other guy. In your scenario he would do that to Chara, Chara would keep playing, Boston would be galvanized, and the Red Wings wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt on a single penalty call for the remainder of the series. We'd be short handed every single game, and probably lose. And if he HAD injured the other guy? Then you'd have a Bertuzzi incident. Which is worse. I'd be pretty upset. lol Chara does look like he could take a full out stick breaking whack to the head and skate away. He's like the NHL's version of Jason Voorhees. Pure freak of nature. 1 kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted April 3, 2015 So I take it you also think McCarty should be locked up in federal prison for felony assault as well then? If not, please explain why. McCarty punched LePuke then LePuke turtled. This jackass skated up to a guy in warmups and started hitting him with a stick. How the hell are they comparable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sleepwalker 512 Report post Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) McCarty threw a huge blindside punch to his head. That's why he turtled. Like Lemieux has said multiple times since, the punch Mac threw to his head hit him so hard it knocked him silly to the point he couldn't even see straight let alone fight back. Not to mention Mac bloodied and actually injured Lemieux. Helmersson got hit in the leg with a stick and didn't even get so much as a scratch. So you are right I guess, they aren't comparable. The Mac incident was much worse. He pretty much KO'd a guy, the continued to beat him senseless after he was down and couldn't fight back. Helmersson got tapped in the leg with a stick and walked away unscathed. Edit: BTW, I only even brought up the Mac incident since Frank was saying the guy who hit Helmersson should be imprisoned for what he did. I was pointing out if he should be imprisoned for hitting a guy in the leg with a stick, and not even injuring him, then surely one must believe Mac should also be imprisoned for attacking Lemieux in a far more brutal fashion. Edited April 3, 2015 by sleepwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Namingway 146 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) McCarty threw a huge blindside punch to his head. That's why he turtled. Like Lemieux has said multiple times since, the punch Mac threw to his head hit him so hard it knocked him silly to the point he couldn't even see straight let alone fight back. Not to mention Mac bloodied and actually injured Lemieux. Helmersson got hit in the leg with a stick and didn't even get so much as a scratch. So you are right I guess, they aren't comparable. The Mac incident was much worse. He pretty much KO'd a guy, the continued to beat him senseless after he was down and couldn't fight back. Helmersson got tapped in the leg with a stick and walked away unscathed. Edit: BTW, I only even brought up the Mac incident since Frank was saying the guy who hit Helmersson should be imprisoned for what he did. I was pointing out if he should be imprisoned for hitting a guy in the leg with a stick, and not even injuring him, then surely one must believe Mac should also be imprisoned for attacking Lemieux in a far more brutal fashion. Four words: assault with a weapon. Yes, it makes a difference in the hockey world, too. It's not the result, but the intent that should matter. IIRC, Dino Ciccarelli got jailed and fined a while back for what appeared to be less than what McCarty did, and it was also a heat of the moment thing, rather than a cheap shot like Deveaux's. There's been many similar cases in the past. The difference always being, they used a "weapon". The mindset of "oh, the victim didn't get injured, so the offender shouldn't be punished as badly" is what's wrong with the NHL's disciplinary system today. Again, the McCarty fight was during a different era, when hits and fighting didn't get punished nearly as much as they do today. If you thought that D-Mac was bad and should be imprisoned for what he did to Lemieux, then our boys Probie and Kocur should have served multiple lifetimes Edited April 4, 2015 by Namingway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
