Do Red Wings fans deserve better?

[Redwings 1926 47]

That's the beauty of going in with no expectations or more realistic ones. I didn't belieeve the team would be as good as the standings indicated nor do I believe they are as bad as currently. The current Wings edition is one in transistion, with a good mixture of young blood and veterans but they don't have the right one when it comes down to skill and grit. When was the last time another team was intimidated of a Wings player ? I can't even remember it, Cole was supposed to fix this but sadly he got hurt and still has not played since

Save for Abdelkader, Ericsson and Sheahan from time to time no one on this team is willing to man up and deliver big hits to change the momentum of a game and Abdelkader while not the most skilled fighter is at least willing to drop the gloves but does thiis team rally around him ? No, they are "middly" amused pushing the stick against the walls instead of smashing it and cheering for him. People might think it's just Mach no, that's false we've seen it all season when other teams are starting to get their forcheck going the Wings are out of answers.

Personally I believe premium prices should give you a premium product in terms of entertainment and I'd rather see a hardworking, big heavy team than one that tries that boring "we're too skilled to be a blue a collar team" crap. At some point a huge trade, signing needs to happen to re-energize the fanbase and the team itself, also a culture change will be needed.

So yeah keep blaming and mentioning fans but maybe just maybe a year of missing the playoffs is exactly what this team needs in order to make a culture change happen here. Compard to teams like Calgary our fourth line is a freaking joke and that's the easiest position to fix in hockey. I really hope the Wings can pull off the Phaneuf trade he is exactly what this team needs.

Reading this makes me miss guys like McCarty, Shannahan, Chelios, Kocur, Probert, and those guys who seemed to know how to get under opposing teams' skin like Maltby and Holmstrom.

The only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the on the Wings missing the playoffs as I'm not sure missing the post season would be the best way to lure those big name free agents to this team.

From my observation, missing the playoffs seems to have more of a negative impact on an organization's culture than a positive one. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Edmonton Oilers fans were saying the same thing around 1992 when their team was still good enough to make the playoffs, and even make a good run, but were still a far cry from the team they were just a few years prior. Here it is now 23 years later, and that organization has only enjoyed moderate success in the late 90s and early 2000s, and that Cinderella team in 2006.

The way I see it is that it's much easier to build on the momentum of a winning team than it is to escape the vicious cycle of being a perennial loser.

[Redwings 1926 47]

I think they need to remove the logo not because of the mediocre team, but because it's kind of cheesy and a misnomer.

If the Red Wings miss the playoffs even one year the attendance will probably plummet. If they missed a couple years in a row? Even worse. The Lions have lost for decades but fans keep coming.

Hockey is popular here but this is footballtown, not hockeytown.

The Maple Leafs have made the playoffs once in the last 9 years, and that one time they did lost in the first round in brutal fashion.

The Wings are in a tailspin at the moment, but let's have some perspective here. We are nowhere near the level of the circus that has been the Maple Leafs.

If you think the "Hockeytown" logo at center ice is ridiculous, just imagine how Detroit calling itself "Footballtown" would look. Don't get me wrong as I love the Lions as much as the next guy, but if I were to give that title to anyone then it'd probably have to be Green Bay, or maybe Pittsburgh at a distant second...

I think "Sportstown" would be most fitting for Detroit, though I suspect St. Louis, Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia might have something to say about that.

Personally, I like the "Hockeytown" name. It's no different than folks in Green Bay calling themselves "Titletown", or St. Louis calling themselves "Baseballtown".

Why people have to take things so literally sometimes is beyond me...

Detroit's "Hockeytown", and screw what other fans think. Many are probably just mad that they didn't think of it first...

[number9 3,297]

Yeah, I understand that Football is probably the most popular sport in Detroit, but that's the same for almost every American city. What other American city would deserve the title of hockeytown over Detroit? Boston? That's an old school baseball town. Minny? Maybe for college or the state in general... they couldn't even keep the North Stars going.

Detroit is a six-pack and power swim away from Canada, an original six team, and Michigan rivals Minnesota as a hockey state. I think hockeytown is warranted.

[Redwings 1926 47]

I would say we have the weakest fanbase (CURRENTLY) out of the "Original Six" teams. Then you can add in Pittsburgh, Philly, Vancouver, and Winnipeg. So we might make a case for #10, but even that would be contested.

I do agree with you, though...the new arena should help things greatly. The Joe is a dump with nicely placed seats.

Winnipeg? No disrespect as I'm pretty sure they are crazy about their team, like most all Canadian markets, but I'm willing to bet that in numbers, their fan base is a fraction of that of the Red Wings' because Winnipeg is such a small market.

In my 31 years on this earth, most of which has been spent living in the American southeast, I've yet to come across anyone from Manitoba. Detroit, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh, on the other hand, are like a dime-a-dozen around here.

As for Boston? I know lots of New Englanders around here too, and even have some family up there. The funny thing about most of the New Englanders I've met over the years is that they all seemed to be indifferent about hockey, or straight up told me that they didn't like it, even after the Bruins won it all in 2011. In general, I think Boston is kind of a weak hockey market with all things considered

Similar could be said for the Rangers. I've met two who are die hard Rangers fans, and the rest of them either like the Islanders, Devils, or don't really follow hockey that much.

I don't know what your definition of a "great fan base" is, but I have to think numbers are a big contributing factor. Another is how often they are shown on national television, which the Red Wings are a lot. It seems like every other game on NBC is someone playing the Red Wings. Other popular teams seem to be the Blackhawks and Penguins.

If faced with the daunting task of ranking teams by fan base, I'd have to say Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Buffalo.

Buffalo did not make that list by accident as I am willing to bet most in Buffalo care more about their last place team than the people in New York and Boston do their Cup contenders, sad I know. When it comes to fan support for their hockey teams, New York and Boston are a joke.

[Barrie 900]

Speak for yourself, despite one bad month, I've enjoyed watching this team.

I question if we do were not really a top 5-8 fan base in the league the joe is pretty pathetic

Have you even been to the Joe? It's loud!

I would say we have the weakest fanbase (CURRENTLY) out of the "Original Six" teams. Then you can add in Pittsburgh, Philly, Vancouver, and Winnipeg. So we might make a case for #10, but even that would be contested.

I do agree with you, though...the new arena should help things greatly. The Joe is a dump with nicely placed seats.

You must not watch the away games then...

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Reading this makes me miss guys like McCarty, Shannahan, Chelios, Kocur, Probert, and those guys who seemed to know how to get under opposing teams' skin like Maltby and Holmstrom.

The only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the on the Wings missing the playoffs as I'm not sure missing the post season would be the best way to lure those big name free agents to this team.

From my observation, missing the playoffs seems to have more of a negative impact on an organization's culture than a positive one. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Edmonton Oilers fans were saying the same thing around 1992 when their team was still good enough to make the playoffs, and even make a good run, but were still a far cry from the team they were just a few years prior. Here it is now 23 years later, and that organization has only enjoyed moderate success in the late 90s and early 2000s, and that Cinderella team in 2006.

The way I see it is that it's much easier to build on the momentum of a winning team than it is to escape the vicious cycle of being a perennial loser.

God do I miss these guys, seems like it has been forever since the bash brothers and the red marked Leafs versus Wings games, when Domi and Probert threw down.

Nowadays this team doesn't even hit. Holmer was an absolute master at what he did, easily one of most underrated Wings ever. As far as missing the playoffs, well last season sadly proved that the team isn't regarded as a top destination right now and I doubt another first round exit is going to change that.

It's more about internal and philosophy changes, this team has been way too easy to play against for far too long that's gotta change.

When it comes down to the fanbase I would agree currently the Wings are probably the last of the original 6 teams but it doesn't mean that this can't change in a hurry..if Boston misses the playoffs heads and season tickets will go down..the Rangers window is now so they better take advantage of it. Buffalo has a great fanbase and they'd deserve McEichel.

[evilmrt 636]

Speak for yourself, despite one bad month, I've enjoyed watching this team.

Have you even been to the Joe? It's loud!

You must not watch the away games then...

I've been to away games, many times - Especially out West. Yeah sure, there are plenty of Wings "fans" at games....but many of them don't even know who is on the team this year or how they are doing, and they are still wearing Fedorov jerseys. I have to spend half the game explaining everything. This is akin to people randomly wearing Yankees hats while they have no idea who is on the team or how they're playing this season.

I've also been to the Joe many times, and there has been a very clear and marked decline over the last 10-15 years. The kind of enthusiasm that was common then only shows up for the playoffs, or a big matchup on the weekend now. Before, every single game would be the kind of experience where the Hockeytown moniker was completely justified.

Now? Can you not see all the empty seats during the 1st and 3rd periods?

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

The Joe is not a dump and I'm one of the ones that will sadly miss it. Just wait until the ticket prices sky rocket to pay for this new arena. And, your seats are going to be far away from the ice surface. Now I'm not saying it won't be nice but guarantee it's going to be expensive.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The seating arrangement at the Joe is nice. The rest is a dump.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

The Joe seats are uncomfortable and sitting next to overweight people makes watching the entire game almost unbearable. The aisles are far too small and the bathroom sucks. But I absolutely love the nostalgia that comes with going to the Joe, I've been going since I was a young boy and I will for sure miss it, even the parts I don't like. But especially the fact that you can sit in the worst sweat in the house and still have a great view of everything on the ice

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yeah, I understand that Football is probably the most popular sport in Detroit, but that's the same for almost every American city. What other American city would deserve the title of hockeytown over Detroit? Boston? That's an old school baseball town. Minny? Maybe for college or the state in general... they couldn't even keep the North Stars going.

Detroit is a six-pack and power swim away from Canada, an original six team, and Michigan rivals Minnesota as a hockey state. I think hockeytown is warranted.

Why does it have to be an American city?

And to be clear my main issue isn't so much that I think it's technically inaccurate, it's that I think it's cheesy and a little gross. There's several cities who love hockey as much or possibly more than Detroit. If the Rangers or Bruins had dubbed themselves Hockeytown™ and trademarked it, we'd all probably make fun of them for it.

If the Wings go through a downturn it's gonna be awkward to see that logo at center ice with all the empty seats in the stands. Maybe they won't repaint it in the new arena.

[number9 3,297]

Why does it have to be an American city?

And to be clear my main issue isn't so much that I think it's technically inaccurate, it's that I think it's cheesy and a little gross. There's several cities who love hockey as much or possibly more than Detroit. If the Rangers or Bruins had dubbed themselves Hockeytown™ and trademarked it, we'd all probably make fun of them for it.

If the Wings go through a downturn it's gonna be awkward to see that logo at center ice with all the empty seats in the stands. Maybe they won't repaint it in the new arena.

Cause every Canadian city is already hockey town

Well we'll just have to not go through a downturn then

[Redwings 1926 47]

Why does it have to be an American city?

And to be clear my main issue isn't so much that I think it's technically inaccurate, it's that I think it's cheesy and a little gross. There's several cities who love hockey as much or possibly more than Detroit. If the Rangers or Bruins had dubbed themselves Hockeytown™ and trademarked it, we'd all probably make fun of them for it.

If the Wings go through a downturn it's gonna be awkward to see that logo at center ice with all the empty seats in the stands. Maybe they won't repaint it in the new arena.

To answer your question, because comparing American markets to Canadian ones is pointless.

In the US, hockey is more of a regional sport, and even in those markets, fan support is dependent on the team's winning.

In Canada, hockey is the sport. It's a part of their national identity, and it seems every Canadian joke has something to do with hockey.

Win or lose, they pack their arenas, doesn't matter if you're Edmonton or Montreal.

With all of that said, michigan has long been a big hockey state, and was long before the Red Wings started winning again, so I think the title is fitting.

Aside from maybe Minnesota, Michigan is about as close to being a Canadian province as it gets in terms of the sport's popularity and presence.

And no, even mentioning the word "Hockeytown" and Boston or New York in the same sentence is stupid. Those are baseball towns, first and foremost. The Red Sox and Yankees are like the faces of those two cities...

[Ally 448]

Fans aren't entitled to anything and the ones that think they are, are even less deserving than the rest.

[RedWingsRox 614]

To those who keep on posting that fans don't deserve anything or fans are not entitled to anything, look ... when pro athletes win the championship, who are the first people that they thank or dedicate the trophy to? I have heard so many pro athletes speak of the fans and how they play for them. On the other side of the coin, from the pro athlete side, they seem to know the value of loyal fans, they appreciate the fans.

Here is what fans are entitled to ... an honest effort every night that the players go out on the ice. You can reduce it to something as simple as that. Do they deserve a championship every year ... of course not, only one team wins that but fans who buy tickets, buy their merchandise, watch them on TV (and indirectly contribute to the mega TV deals to NHL) deserve a good effort every night. Believe me, I'm reasonable. If they put in an honest effort and lose, I'd understand.

So the reason why this post was started was because it was obvious that over the last month, the team has not given their best effort every night ... not even close. And if we are dangerously close to falling out of a playoff spot. That is unacceptable given where they were at the beginning of March. The team needs to be held accountable ... not by some silly thread on a forum board but they need to know that they are not putting in an honest day's work and they need to work harder.

So please stop with your 'fans don't deserve anything' high and mighty reprimands. Save it for when you go out to dinner, pay good money, and get crap on a plate. See if that mantra works in the real world.

Edited April 5, 2015 by RedWingsRox

[number9 3,297]

To those who keep on posting that fans don't deserve anything or fans are not entitled to anything, look ... when pro athletes win the championship, who are the first people that they thank or dedicate the trophy to? I have heard so many pro athletes speak of the fans and how they play for them. On the other side of the coin, from the pro athlete side, they seem to know the value of loyal fans, they appreciate the fans.

Here is what fans are entitled to ... an honest effort every night that the players go out on the ice. You can reduce it to something as simple as that. Do they deserve a championship every year ... of course not, only one team wins that but fans who buy tickets, buy their merchandise, watch them on TV (and indirectly contribute to the mega TV deals to NHL) deserve a good effort every night. Believe me, I'm reasonable. If they put in an honest effort and lose, I'd understand.

So the reason why this post was started was because it was obvious that over the last month, the team has not given their best effort every night ... not even close. And if we are dangerously close to falling out of a playoff spot. That is unacceptable given where they were at the beginning of March. The team needs to be held accountable ... not by some silly thread on a forum board but they need to know that they are not putting in an honest day's work and they need to work harder.

So please stop with your 'fans don't deserve anything' high and mighty reprimands. Save it for when you go out to dinner, pay good money, and get crap on a plate. See if that mantra works in the real world.

There's about 29 other NHL fan bases (non-bandwagon) who would call this spoiled

[frankgrimes 1,836]

To those who keep on posting that fans don't deserve anything or fans are not entitled to anything, look ... when pro athletes win the championship, who are the first people that they thank or dedicate the trophy to? I have heard so many pro athletes speak of the fans and how they play for them. On the other side of the coin, from the pro athlete side, they seem to know the value of loyal fans, they appreciate the fans.

Here is what fans are entitled to ... an honest effort every night that the players go out on the ice. You can reduce it to something as simple as that. Do they deserve a championship every year ... of course not, only one team wins that but fans who buy tickets, buy their merchandise, watch them on TV (and indirectly contribute to the mega TV deals to NHL) deserve a good effort every night. Believe me, I'm reasonable. If they put in an honest effort and lose, I'd understand.

So the reason why this post was started was because it was obvious that over the last month, the team has not given their best effort every night ... not even close. And if we are dangerously close to falling out of a playoff spot. That is unacceptable given where they were at the beginning of March. The team needs to be held accountable ... not by some silly thread on a forum board but they need to know that they are not putting in an honest day's work and they need to work harder.

So please stop with your 'fans don't deserve anything' high and mighty reprimands. Save it for when you go out to dinner, pay good money, and get crap on a plate. See if that mantra works in the real world.

Best and most reasonable post I've read in a while, thank you.

People are paying top Dollars for merchandise, tickets and subscription an honest effort should be there, period sure everyone has off nights

Edited April 5, 2015 by frankgrimes

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

To those who keep on posting that fans don't deserve anything or fans are not entitled to anything, look ... when pro athletes win the championship, who are the first people that they thank or dedicate the trophy to? I have heard so many pro athletes speak of the fans and how they play for them. On the other side of the coin, from the pro athlete side, they seem to know the value of loyal fans, they appreciate the fans.

Here is what fans are entitled to ... an honest effort every night that the players go out on the ice. You can reduce it to something as simple as that. Do they deserve a championship every year ... of course not, only one team wins that but fans who buy tickets, buy their merchandise, watch them on TV (and indirectly contribute to the mega TV deals to NHL) deserve a good effort every night. Believe me, I'm reasonable. If they put in an honest effort and lose, I'd understand.

So the reason why this post was started was because it was obvious that over the last month, the team has not given their best effort every night ... not even close. And if we are dangerously close to falling out of a playoff spot. That is unacceptable given where they were at the beginning of March. The team needs to be held accountable ... not by some silly thread on a forum board but they need to know that they are not putting in an honest day's work and they need to work harder.

So please stop with your 'fans don't deserve anything' high and mighty reprimands. Save it for when you go out to dinner, pay good money, and get crap on a plate. See if that mantra works in the real world.

I'd be willing to bet that when an athlete thanks fans, it's usually to shut them up. I'm willing to concede that I could be wrong, but I don't think I am, and I would make that bet. If you want to keep a running tab on who is giving their 110%, Coach, go ahead. The chances of your list matching up with another person's list is...well...that math sucks because there are quite a few combinations, but it is a finite number. So, please stop with your high and mighty demands to be the only reason a team succeeds.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I'd be willing to bet that when an athlete thanks fans, it's usually to shut them up. I'm willing to concede that I could be wrong, but I don't think I am, and I would make that bet. If you want to keep a running tab on who is giving their 110%, Coach, go ahead. The chances of your list matching up with another person's list is...well...that math sucks because there are quite a few combinations, but it is a finite number. So, please stop with your high and mighty demands to be the only reason a team succeeds.

So you basically think players don't appreciate fans and don't actually care about them. There may be a couple like that but I'd bet any amount of money most of them are sincere in thanking fans.

I've been holding off on posting in this thread but it keeps popping up so here goes. I've been lucky enough to watch my team win 4 Stanley cups and make the playoffs 23 (soon to be 24) straight seasons. I don't feel like I deserve better than that. In fact I am grateful for getting more than fans of other teams get. So what if we've had a rough few years lately, rebuilding while still making the playoffs is a great accomplishment and I am happy to be a part of it. Anyone who thinks otherwise IS spoiled.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

So you basically think players don't appreciate fans and don't actually care about them. There may be a couple like that but I'd bet any amount of money most of them are sincere in thanking fans.

I've been holding off on posting in this thread but it keeps popping up so here goes. I've been lucky enough to watch my team win 4 Stanley cups and make the playoffs 23 (soon to be 24) straight seasons. I don't feel like I deserve better than that. In fact I am grateful for getting more than fans of other teams get. So what if we've had a rough few years lately, rebuilding while still making the playoffs is a great accomplishment and I am happy to be a part of it. Anyone who thinks otherwise IS spoiled.

Basically, I believe most couldn't care less about their fans, in general. I'm sure they are glad to have fans, but they don't believe the fans effect the outcome of a game or a season. They certainly wouldn't know, or care, if their entire fanbase was transplanted by other people. I'm a fan of the Detroit Red Wings...I have an entire room dedicated to them, with an entire whack of Gordie Howe and Steve Yzerman stuff. Not one Red Wing has a room dedicated to me, nor one dedicated to fans in general. I'm okay with all of this, by the way...it's the order of things. I agree with the rest of what you said, too.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

The word 'deserve' in this context in now both threads uses the word in a negative context which can't be considered in Detroit's case.

No, all the glory was earned on the ice surfaces across North America and being the best fanbase since forever dovetailed nicely with that story and continues to.

[vladdy16 2,154]

Please refrain from personal attacks.

[evilmrt 636]

The word 'deserve' in this context in now both threads uses the word in a negative context which can't be considered in Detroit's case.

No, all the glory was earned on the ice surfaces across North America and being the best fanbase since forever dovetailed nicely with that story and continues to.

It should be said: "Should Red Wings fans expect better?" And I think that is something most of us could agree upon.

[Redwings 1926 47]

To those who keep on posting that fans don't deserve anything or fans are not entitled to anything, look ... when pro athletes win the championship, who are the first people that they thank or dedicate the trophy to? I have heard so many pro athletes speak of the fans and how they play for them. On the other side of the coin, from the pro athlete side, they seem to know the value of loyal fans, they appreciate the fans.

Here is what fans are entitled to ... an honest effort every night that the players go out on the ice. You can reduce it to something as simple as that. Do they deserve a championship every year ... of course not, only one team wins that but fans who buy tickets, buy their merchandise, watch them on TV (and indirectly contribute to the mega TV deals to NHL) deserve a good effort every night. Believe me, I'm reasonable. If they put in an honest effort and lose, I'd understand.

So the reason why this post was started was because it was obvious that over the last month, the team has not given their best effort every night ... not even close. And if we are dangerously close to falling out of a playoff spot. That is unacceptable given where they were at the beginning of March. The team needs to be held accountable ... not by some silly thread on a forum board but they need to know that they are not putting in an honest day's work and they need to work harder.

So please stop with your 'fans don't deserve anything' high and mighty reprimands. Save it for when you go out to dinner, pay good money, and get crap on a plate. See if that mantra works in the real world.

If this were a Lions thread, I might agree with you.

As others have said, having seen my favorite team win 4 Stanley Cups in my lifetime, enjoy 22 straight winning seasons and counting, most of which were at or near the top of the standings, and still making the post season the last couple of years when others said they wouldn't while rebuilding is fine by me.

I don't feel like we "deserve" anything. We've been the most fortunate fans in the league since 1992.

If you were to walk up to a Maple Leafs, Flyers, or Blues fan with such a sob story about how you think "We as Red Wings fans deserve better", they'd probably either laugh at you or throw something at you.

In fact, I'm about 99% certain that the Philly fan would probably throw something at you. They like throwing things when they're mad. Even Santa Clause isn't immune to flying projectiles in Philadelphia. That said, 'Flyers' is a pretty good name for their hockey team.

Every team goes through slumps from time to time. Even the Red Wings of the 90s and 2000s had their fair share.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Redwings 1926

[Redwings 1926 47]

Basically, I believe most couldn't care less about their fans, in general. I'm sure they are glad to have fans, but they don't believe the fans effect the outcome of a game or a season. They certainly wouldn't know, or care, if their entire fanbase was transplanted by other people. I'm a fan of the Detroit Red Wings...I have an entire room dedicated to them, with an entire whack of Gordie Howe and Steve Yzerman stuff. Not one Red Wing has a room dedicated to me, nor one dedicated to fans in general. I'm okay with all of this, by the way...it's the order of things. I agree with the rest of what you said, too.

Claude Lemieux seemed to care what my dad thought of him.

A friend of my dad's had season tickets to the Florida Panthers, 1st row, right beside the visitor's bench. Anyway, one night in 2000, he let us have them. It was a game against the Devils on a night when Martin Brodeur was not playing, so we got to sit next to him the whole night listening to him yelling at his teammates from the bench. By the second intermission, my dad was good and lathered up and as the Devils were heading to the locker room, he sees Lemieux, and yells "Hey!! My boy Darren McCarty is gonna kick your ass!! To our astonishment, Lemieux stops and bends down to look into the glass and says what sounded like "haw?" And my dad yelled again "My boy Darren McCarty is gonna kick your ass!!" to which Lemieux replied softly "Bring him on, he's probably at home banging your wife." A few seconds later, then Devils coach Larry Robinson walked up behind, placed his hand on Claude's shoulder, and they headed off to the locker room. I was only 16 at the time, but it was a entertaining night. That night on the ride home, I swear he must have called half the people in his phone. He called my grandfather at 11pm laughing hysterically and said "Hey dad, guess who I got into a fight with tonight!!"

That said, I think most do care what the fans think, to a degree, and suspect that's part of the reason why Detroit was such an attractive destination for free agents all of those years, the good teams, and the rabid fan support, appreciation. No one wants to play in front of empty seats, or indifferent fans.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Redwings 1926