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nyqvististhefuture

Erik cole - what the hell's going on with him ?

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Turning out to be another waste of a trade ... He was suppose to be out a game or 2 and now at this rate he's gonna probably play game 1 if we get in the playoffs

Anyone heard anything on him ? And might as well throw in mule while were at it (although I think mules done for the year )

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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I'm confused, is 6 points in 11 games bad? Did you guys think we were getting Max Pacioretty? We got a 40 point winger, who came to Detroit and played...ready for this...EXACTLY like a 40 point winger.

Or were you guys suggesting that Holland should have known Cole would get hurt in advance, and thus not made the trade?

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I'm confused, is 6 points in 11 games bad? Did you guys think we were getting Max Pacioretty? We got a 40 point winger, who came to Detroit and played...ready for this...EXACTLY like a 40 point winger.

Or were you guys suggesting that Holland should have known Cole would get hurt in advance, and thus not made the trade?

Ahh, yes... the old, "Should Brendan Smith have known his hand would get infected, and thus not punched Nick Foligno in the mouth?" conundrum.

For the record, I've liked Cole in his time here. Something does seem "off" about how he's looked, but it's tough to argue with his contributions. I think he brings a different element to the team, and it's going to show more in the post-season.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Why are guys automatically considered worthless when they get hurt? This is a contact sport, I think. Injuries are going to happen. Not a waste of a trade at all. The moves for Cole and Zidlicky were pretty much exactly what should have happened. They are not at all the reason why this team is terrible now.

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I'm confused, is 6 points in 11 games bad? Did you guys think we were getting Max Pacioretty? We got a 40 point winger, who came to Detroit and played...ready for this...EXACTLY like a 40 point winger.

Or were you guys suggesting that Holland should have known Cole would get hurt in advance, and thus not made the trade?

This is Red Wing land, where everyone is Captain Hindsight, with his faithful companions Woulda, Shoulda, and Coulda and Holland is a moron for not knowing a player would get hurt.

captain-hindsight1.png

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I assume he's looked "off" because he is coming to a new team, with new teammates, and a new system, and a different coach. AND he still produced points regularly...which is what good veteran players do.

Unless a guy is coming from an absolute dumpster fire of a team (e.g. Stafford and Buffalo), they're usually not going to produce more after they leave a situation they're comfortable with for a new team. And even Cole's points per game went down after coming to Detroit. But if you expected any differently, you were probably in error to begin with.

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Turning out to be another waste of a trade ... He was suppose to be out a game or 2 and now at this rate he's gonna probably play game 1 if we get in the playoffs

Anyone heard anything on him ? And might as well throw in mule while were at it (although I think mules done for the year )

Cole was playing well before he got injured. The line with Abby, him and Z had been one of our best.

Isn't a pinched nerve in his shoulder or something like it? Unfortunately that's a hard one to predict when you'll be back in the lineup.

As for Franzen, yeah, I think he's basically done. At least for this year. the team has fared well without him though.

Maybe he and Zidlicky are terrible human beings and their addition has been a poltergeist to this team.

It almost seems that way.

I think they've both played well but didn't the tailspin start right around the trade deadline? On paper this team is better, but they start playing like crap. Except for an odd game or so like against Tampa where they play like a legit Cup contender.

So strange.

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I assume he's looked "off" because he is coming to a new team, with new teammates, and a new system, and a different coach. AND he still produced points regularly...which is what good veteran players do.

Unless a guy is coming from an absolute dumpster fire of a team (e.g. Stafford and Buffalo), they're usually not going to produce more after they leave a situation they're comfortable with for a new team. And even Cole's points per game went down after coming to Detroit. But if you expected any differently, you were probably in error to begin with.

I had this sentence half-written, but then I considered Zidlicky. Sure, he's dropped off now. His production wasn't sustainable, but I thought he looked fantastic off the bat.

If anything, I find it weird how well he fit in right off the bat - he looked "on" right away. I think he's fallen off as time's gone on - shown his knack for bad penalties, lack of foot speed, getting too fancy in the offensive zone. I think Cole plays a simpler game that's going to translate well in the post-season. I'm optimistic that's he's got a couple "big goals" in him.

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I had this sentence half-written, but then I considered Zidlicky. Sure, he's dropped off now. His production wasn't sustainable, but I thought he looked fantastic off the bat.

If anything, I find it weird how well he fit in right off the bat - he looked "on" right away. I think he's fallen off as time's gone on - shown his knack for bad penalties, lack of foot speed, getting too fancy in the offensive zone. I think Cole plays a simpler game that's going to translate well in the post-season. I'm optimistic that's he's got a couple "big goals" in him.

Totally agree. Zidlicky was excellent right off the bat, and that was a big plus for us. But even if he'd only been half as good I'd have considered it a successful trade. Cole has played fine so far, and will continue to do so going forward. Same with Zidlicky. They've both been excellent additions and have done EXACTLY what Ken Holland was hoping they'd do.

People bitching about Cole are the same ones who lament Stephen Weiss too. It drives me crazy.

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I'm confused, is 6 points in 11 games bad? Did you guys think we were getting Max Pacioretty? We got a 40 point winger, who came to Detroit and played...ready for this...EXACTLY like a 40 point winger.

Or were you guys suggesting that Holland should have known Cole would get hurt in advance, and thus not made the trade?

Ha I knew exactly who we were getting .... Point is it be nice to have him in the lineup ... If he never plays another game the trade turns out to be useless

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Why are guys automatically considered worthless when they get hurt? This is a contact sport, I think. Injuries are going to happen. Not a waste of a trade at all. The moves for Cole and Zidlicky were pretty much exactly what should have happened. They are not at all the reason why this team is terrible now.

I agree with you to an extent, but I think injuries cut do cut into value at some point.

Take for example, Jonas Gustavsson. Had a rough go with injuries and health issues in Toronto, then comes here and it's more of the same. Then he somehow gets a raise when cheaper, better and more durable backups are available on the UFA market. Now it's been more of the same. I'll be surprised if he has an NHL contract before training camps start this summer.

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This is Red Wing land, where everyone is Captain Hindsight, with his faithful companions Woulda, Shoulda, and Coulda and Holland is a moron for not knowing a player would get hurt.

captain-hindsight1.png

Didn't say holland is a moron for not knowing he'd get hurt ... But if he never plays again the trade becomes meaningless , we got him to make an impact and help us win games

And to the person who said he scored goals and helped us win games he scored 3 and one was in a 7-2 win which wasn't a factor

The point of this three believe it or not was just to find out what's going on with Coles injury cause it be nice to have him (especially in the playoffs , if we get in)

We could use his physical presence

Totally agree. Zidlicky was excellent right off the bat, and that was a big plus for us. But even if he'd only been half as good I'd have considered it a successful trade. Cole has played fine so far, and will continue to do so going forward. Same with Zidlicky. They've both been excellent additions and have done EXACTLY what Ken Holland was hoping they'd do.

People bitching about Cole are the same ones who lament Stephen Weiss too. It drives me crazy.

Never bitched about cole ... Just trying to figure out his injury status

As for weiss I said it since day 1 ... He was overrated when we got him and he hasn't done anything since we got him and has been.an awful signing ... Injuries or not ... Sorry if that pisses you off

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It almost seems that way.

I think they've both played well but didn't the tailspin start right around the trade deadline? On paper this team is better, but they start playing like crap. Except for an odd game or so like against Tampa where they play like a legit Cup contender.

So strange.

That's why GM's are often afraid to mess with team chemistry when things are going well. As I've said before, it seems Holland can do no right.

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Ha I knew exactly who we were getting .... Point is it be nice to have him in the lineup ... If he never plays another game the trade turns out to be useless

Using that rationale, every trade deadline rental who doesn't A) re-sign, or B) help you win a Cup, is "useless". Which is a pretty thin threshold for success.

The Cole trade has not been bad or useless.

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I agree with you to an extent, but I think injuries cut do cut into value at some point.

Take for example, Jonas Gustavsson. Had a rough go with injuries and health issues in Toronto, then comes here and it's more of the same. Then he somehow gets a raise when cheaper, better and more durable backups are available on the UFA market. Now it's been more of the same. I'll be surprised if he has an NHL contract before training camps start this summer.

Sure. He isn't Jonas Gustavsson, though. He has missed 4 games and he isn't expected to be out much longer. The original post was a gross overreaction, imo.

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Didn't say holland is a moron for not knowing he'd get hurt ... But if he never plays again the trade becomes meaningless , we got him to make an impact and help us win games

And to the person who said he scored goals and helped us win games he scored 3 and one was in a 7-2 win which wasn't a factor

The point of this three believe it or not was just to find out what's going on with Coles injury cause it be nice to have him (especially in the playoffs , if we get in)

We could use his physical presence

Never bitched about cole ... Just trying to figure out his injury status

As for weiss I said it since day 1 ... He was overrated when we got him and he hasn't done anything since we got him and has been.an awful signing ... Injuries or not ... Sorry if that pisses you off

Ok so his 2 goals helped us win. In fact he scored one that turned to be the tying goal in which we went on to win the game. Without that goal we probably have 2 less points.

Also, by your analogy we should never make trades because if we do and the guy gets injured then it's bad. Well genius you usually make trades to improve your team. You complained last year about trading Jarnkrok, it's not surprising your bitching again because someone "might" not make it back before the end of the year.

LGW never change...

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That's why GM's are often afraid to mess with team chemistry when things are going well. As I've said before, it seems Holland can do no right.

I think the luck Holland had with players he brought in for the 08 and 09 Finals teams really spoiled us fans and greatly heightened our expectations for new acquisitions. If on October 5th, 2005, someone told me that in the next three seasons Dan Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson would be 20+ goal scorers and Chris Osgood would lead them to a Cup, I would've asked them to share the cough syrup.

We got expected or better than expected contributions from most of the players he brought in between 05-09. Cleary, Samuelsson (V1.0), Osgood (V2.0), Lilja, Markov, Hasek, Rafalski, Drake, Downey, Stuart, McCarty, Conklin (V1.0) and Hossa all were pretty much homeruns. The only real misses were Cross, Bertuzzi (V1.0) and Calder.

That luck started to fizzle from 2010-2012. Guys like Miller, Eaves, Bertuzzi (V2.0), Salei, and MacDonald (V2.0) all worked as expected or better. However, the duds starting rolling in. Jason Williams (V2.0), Modano, Commodore, White and Conklin (V2.0) all ended up as busts, and it's probably a safe bet to say that Quincey (V2.0) hasn't exactly been what they were hoping for at the '12 deadline.

That luck has pretty much completely flipped from the 2012 off season to today... Alfredsson was the only real bright spot. Gustavsson, Tootoo, Samuelsson (V2.0), Colaiacovo, Brunner, Weiss and Legwand either didn't work out or haven't played up to expectations yet.

I'm hoping Cole and Zidlicky reverse the trend... Otherwise, I feel like Holland might completely abandon trying to attract UFA's or swing trades. That or Holland is starting to realize the NHL is becoming more like the NFL, where 95% of your team building is done through the draft...

Edited by DSM

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Using that rationale, every trade deadline rental who doesn't A) re-sign, or B) help you win a Cup, is "useless". Which is a pretty thin threshold for success.

The Cole trade has not been bad or useless.

If he ends up playing 11 games as a redwing how can the trade be a good one? Yes no one could predict injuries but I'm just saying it like it is ... It's hard to win a Stanley cup , I'm not expecting a cup anytime we make a trade but if he just ends up in the lineup just for those 11 games it's very disappointing

That being said I do expect him to play game 1 if we get in but the fact that we haven't been hearing much about him I wouldn't expect him to close to 100 percent

While we're on the topic...

What's up with that bum Datsyuk? He's missed 7 of the last 9 games. What a horrible signing that was. Trade him for a bag of pucks.

Aren't you hilarious

Datsyuk a life long redwing and 2 time cup winner with redwings

Erik cole 11 games as a wing

Exaggerate a bit more next time

Ok so his 2 goals helped us win. In fact he scored one that turned to be the tying goal in which we went on to win the game. Without that goal we probably have 2 less points.

Also, by your analogy we should never make trades because if we do and the guy gets injured then it's bad. Well genius you usually make trades to improve your team. You complained last year about trading Jarnkrok, it's not surprising your bitching again because someone "might" not make it back before the end of the year.

LGW never change...

Hilarious ... I never complained about Erik Coles play just stating fact if he ends up playing 11 games as redwing it's very disappointing

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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I actually assume hell be brought back next season.

Yeah it will suck if he's only in Detroit for 11 games, but for what we gave up for him, if we get into the playoffs then his contributions helped and it'll have been worth it to me.

The mates Mattias probably weren't going to make our team, and for a while there the z cole Abby line was pretty awesome.

The potential physicality of that line alone on zs wings I see as a plus.

We just got hit with our injury bug at a bad time, and now piecing the lineup together in a successful way is more prudent because of the timing.

I expect him to be back though, he's still quick, still defensively responsible and if worse comes to worst he can still play a grinding role or sit in the press box as the 13th guy. I don't see him getting more than a couple million so it'll effectively be like cleary this year.

Which as sad as it seemed, hasn't turned out too badly.

Cole was playing well before he got injured. The line with Abby, him and Z had been one of our best.

Isn't a pinched nerve in his shoulder or something like it? Unfortunately that's a hard one to predict when you'll be back in the lineup.

As for Franzen, yeah, I think he's basically done. At least for this year. the team has fared well without him though.

It almost seems that way.

I think they've both played well but didn't the tailspin start right around the trade deadline? On paper this team is better, but they start playing like crap. Except for an odd game or so like against Tampa where they play like a legit Cup contender.

So strange.

Ive only seen the vague upper body injury tag with him, but itd be alot better if it is his shoulder instead of his back.

Which is what I assumed.

And I'm in the minority here, but I thought zidlicky was kind of a wash at the beginning.

He was scoring goals, but I thought he was pretty bad defensively and that he took very untimely penalties...

Both have seemed to even out.

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